Would the Rapture unite Christianity and Judaism?

[irosie91]

Hell, no.

depends on where HE has lunch (and whether HE washes his hands)

 

[Meriweather]

IT's more like when Christians realize their mistaken interpretations create silly fantasy notions like the rapture, they will unite (convert) to Judaism (2 sticks into one). Their own scripture says they will grab the hem of a Jew and ask them about their precepts....Isaiah 66:19 (speaking of the time to come leading to the Mikdash procession) explicitely says the Gentile has not yet seen the (figurative) face of God and at that time will finally see what they were blinded to.
WHICH BRINGS US TO THIS VERY SUBJECT confused as a Rapture in the sky.
The rapture debacle comes from missinterpretation that stems from the lack of knowledge of Biblical era slang and poetic usage of words describing appearances.
Theslonians which is based on Daniels vision uses the word "clouds" meaning
"gathering of hosts" i.e. Temple Priests.
The enraptured (exciting fervor) of the holy procession to "go up" to Mt Zion to see the Head(arch) Priest (Kohanim) in the gathering of Kohanim at the Temple in his name.
1)Jesus was not son of man, he(one of the figures used for his image) was speaking of son of man to come third person tense.
2)to come out of of with clouds meant out of the Aaronic lineage(Kohanim) or with the gathering of Kohanim to the Temple (Mikdash)in his name.
3)to go up to the clouds is up to Mt Zion for this gathering procession.
So Isaiah 66:19 is a validation to these verses on the procession, putting it to a perspective that the Gentile is the one being introduced to the oracle of God(who's name is in the Holy City, Temple, and Bible.
When people steal -plagiarize and lie to place a figure into text the outcome is very visably exposed and many times comical, and this error of a mere use of a word "cloud" is one of those exposed hillarious mistakes. The rapture nonsense is probably one of the greatest atheist creators and also one of the grestest conversion creators to Buddhism and Judaism.

Excellent. No one is going up to the sky. Christians do remember that Jesus ascended into the heavens from the hill top. When Jesus returns, we will go up to meet him, just as in those times, people went 'up' to meet kings and people of importance.

Another Christian story is about Stephen seeing Jesus above him as he was dying. He reached up to Jesus. The end of the world for most of us will be our individual deaths.

"Rapture" as known in fundamentalist circles was an invention of the nineteenth century. It is time we went back to our roots and move forward from there. Fundamentalist 19th century preachers got it wrong.

 

[jwoodie]

WHOOSH...

 

[ding]

Making up what shit?

Well, we can start with that so called rapture. Of course ignoring the parts of the Bible that you don't like is a tenant of Christianity too.

At least i don’t have to reject every single thing from every single religion. You probably just obsess over Christianity for convenience sake.

What makes you think I reject everything in the Bible, or any other religion for that matter? There are many beautiful passages expressing universal wisdom in the Bible, as well as there in the Torah, the Koran, and the teachings of all other major religions I have learned a little about. That doesn't mean I don't recognize the obvious contradictions and bullshit that is also part of all of them.

I just figured if you knew I did then I know you did. See what I did there?

I saw that. You tried to make a comparison that just didn't fit.

Of course you wouldn’t think it would.

 

[HaShev]

Someone pointed out that they wanted to see backed resources for my commentary.
I have the sources in my Lexicon (page 44) of my book "Keepers of the Unpopular Truth".
NOTICE IN
1 King 8:10 and the commentary in the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed the use of the term "Clouds" as a gathering of people, in context the Kohanim.

The source for Moshiach coming out of the Aaronic Lineage(Kohanim):
per scrolls IQS IX, II FROM FRAGMENT
4QSe [4Q259])

 

[shimon]

Someone pointed out that they wanted to see backed resources for my commentary.
I have the sources in my Lexicon (page 44) of my book "Keepers of the Unpopular Truth".
NOTICE IN
1 King 8:10 and the commentary in the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed the use of the term "Clouds" as a gathering of people, in context the Kohanim.

The source for Moshiach coming out of the Aaronic Lineage(Kohanim):
per scrolls IQS IX, II FROM FRAGMENT
4QSe [4Q259])

I found something very interesting that normally I would only share with a few others but since you placed this out there I will share this freely so that others may partake of this knowledge... When you named your book “keepers” of the unpopular truth I should have looked at the Hebrew conetations for the deeper meanings but I didn’t so my bad...Anyways Keepers in Hebrew is Shamar which can mean Sheepfold...This is used in the context that when a shepherd was out in the wilderness with his flock he would gather Thorn bushes and erect a coral to protect his flock at NIGHT from predators. The thorns would deter predators and thereby protect the sheep from harm. interestingly the word Shamiyr derived from this root means a Thorn. Further the word Shamar means to quard and protect and can be found surprise surprise in the Aaronic blessing that the priests recite about the people. Thus backing further your contention that Moschiach will come out of or RETURN the Aaronic priesthood to its rightful place as protectors or keepers of the flock or sheep.. The interesting thing about this is that the writers of the New Testament put a thorn of crowns on their pseudo hero Jesus depicting either sun worship or like missing that cloud reference you pointed out blew the Hebrew understandings and concept and put a physical crown of thorns on him not understanding that Hebrew was poetic in nature and that they being not into Hebrew concepts completely missed the hidden deeper meanings. Also on a side note it is fascinating that reference was on page 44 of your book given the warning in Isaiah 44 regarding the worshipping and veneration of the idol Jesus mentioned especially in verses 9, 13 and 17 and the fact that the ones who gave us this idol can be found in Rome in a city that is exactly 44 Hectacres in size. As you know I do not believe in coincidences...

 

[Karl Rand]

"Rapture" as known in fundamentalist circles was an invention of the nineteenth century. It is time we went back to our roots and move forward from there. Fundamentalist 19th century preachers got it wrong.

And exactly where are your ‘roots’?

 

[Meriweather]

And exactly where are your ‘roots’?

Apocalyptic literature, circa first century and a little before.

 

[Karl Rand]

And exactly where are your ‘roots’?

Apocalyptic literature, circa first century and a little before.

Ah, the End of Times as revealed by angels. Sorry, you can have that theological mess all to yourself.

 

[Meriweather]

Ah, the End of Times as revealed by angels. Sorry, you can have that theological mess all to yourself.

Actually, no. More or less humans coming to the conclusion that even a messianic king cannot keep the world on track indefinitely. That takes God. What did the angels say about End of Times?

 

[Karl Rand]

Ah, the End of Times as revealed by angels. Sorry, you can have that theological mess all to yourself.

Actually, no. More or less humans coming to the conclusion that even a messianic king cannot keep the world on track indefinitely. That takes God. What did the angels say about End of Times?

And what does trinitarian theology say about the nature of the Messiah? Maybe you don’t cleave to that particular superstition though?

 

[Meriweather]

And what does trinitarian theology say about the nature of the Messiah? Maybe you don’t cleave to that particular superstition though?

It says nothing about the messiah people of Judaism are expecting. Why?

 

[Karl Rand]

And what does trinitarian theology say about the nature of the Messiah? Maybe you don’t cleave to that particular superstition though?

It says nothing about the messiah people of Judaism are expecting. Why?

Some of my Israeli friends would be very surprised at your assertion.
Maybe ‘people of Judaism’ needs to be more tightly defined in this context?

 

[Meriweather]

Some of my Israeli friends would be very surprised at your assertion.
Maybe ‘people of Judaism’ needs to be more tightly defined in this context?

People of Jewish faith. I see nothing strange about the assertion at all. Please explain.

 

[Karl Rand]

Some of my Israeli friends would be very surprised at your assertion.
Maybe ‘people of Judaism’ needs to be more tightly defined in this context?

People of Jewish faith. I see nothing strange about the assertion at all. Please explain.

As with Christianity there are many, many streams of Judaism. Some ‘of Jewish faith’ are so radically different at to not see the existence of the State of Israel as valid.
A close friend, a member of the Israel Philharmonic, totally apposed to the ‘occupation’ of Palestinian lands has a view so different from his wife they eventually divorced over the issue. Both consider themselves ‘good Jews’.
Anyhow all this is far from the original topic ‘The Rapture’ which I have to confess I have little interest in discussing so maybe I’m best out of here?

 

[HaShev]

"RETURN the Aaronic priesthood"..

Which is why I often post this Torah portion interpreting deeper symbolically "Aarons staff" being the Aaronic Priesthood (Kohanim):
Numbers/Korach
17:25 Vayomer Adonay el-Moshe HASHEV et-mateh Aharon lifney ha'edut lemishmeret le'ot
livney-Meri utechal telunotam me'alay velo yamutu.
God said to Moses, "Put *Aaron's staff* back there before
the [Ark of] Testimony as a keepsake.
Let it be a sign for anyone who wants to rebel.
This should put an end to their complaints to Me, and then they will not die."

 

[Meriweather]

Anyhow all this is far from the original topic ‘The Rapture’ which I have to confess I have little interest in discussing so maybe I’m best out of here?

We may be birds of a feather when it comes to "Rapture." Close to two thousand years after it was written, people ignored the author's instructions/warning and began adding to what he said. This brought us "Rapture."

 

[Indeependent]

• I was wondering if the Rapture would unite Christianity and Judaism by combining the Jewish wait for an earthly Messiah with the second coming of Christ. In that event, would all be saved?

No; the Rapture is the final holocaust of the Jews.

 

[Baron]

• I was wondering if the Rapture would unite Christianity and Judaism by combining the Jewish wait for an earthly Messiah with the second coming of Christ. In that event, would all be saved?

No

Jesus said to Jews

John 8:44 (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus said to Jews

It is not good to conflate to whom Jesus was speaking. Jesus was speaking to those who were seeking his death--not every Jew. Jesus spoke with certainty that he was sent from God, that his mission he learned in the presence of God. He pointed out that Abraham did not seek to kill any messenger from God, and therefore if they were true children of Abraham, they would not be seeking to kill him. They would be embracing his message from God with joy--like so many Jews were actually doing.