Wisconsin....politically, who wins??

[skookerasbil]

Just sort of curious to the forum sentiment as far as the political fallout nationwide..............

Of course, a necessary preface is that the last two years have seen disasterous levels of unemployment in the private sector and a massive growth in the public sector while union employees continue to pay nothing for their retirement and medical.

So..........who wins here? Which party?

 

[B. Kidd]

This is easy. Repubs. Cuz, 'It's the economy, stupid'.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Democrats, either way it goes.

 

[bucs90]

Easy, the GOP does.

You've got hundreds of millions of people watching this. Many of them, almost 20%, are either unemployed or underemployed. Another 25% or so haven't gotten cola raises or any raises in years, or had to take pay cuts to stay employed. They know the economy sucks.

And they're watching 30,000 union members who average $89,500 a year falsifying gov't documents to skip work to whine about their work status? They arent getting laid off. They are well paid. And they're marching?

The public at large is sick of them. It's gonna cause a backlash against the left, well, for the few that still support the left after Obama.

After this, ONLY the radical, far left delusional Dem's will vote Dem.

And the GOP wins because, well, they're doing exactly what they got elected to do. Massive gov't debt scares people. We've woken up to this fact. And seeing the GOP actually cutting spending is proof that we need to vote them in more often.

 

[Oddball]

If the bureaucrat unions win, they lose.

They can either concede or have hundreds of their positions eliminated.

 

[B. Kidd]

Can't wait to see the future political ads about Dems fleeing the political process. That alone will be....priceless!

 

[Claudette]

Can't wait to see the future political ads about Dems fleeing the political process. That alone will be....priceless!

Yep. That sure looks good to the voters.

If you don't get your way or something that you don't like is going on why just pick up your marbles and desert.

Should look good on the resume doncha think??

 

[AllieBaba]

If you don't desert, then bus in people to fill your ranks, leave your desk & march in protest against the will of the people!

Dumb people! Those teachers'll show them!

 

[konradv]

Just sort of curious to the forum sentiment as far as the political fallout nationwide..............

Of course, a necessary preface is that the last two years have seen disasterous levels of unemployment in the private sector and a massive growth in the public sector while union employees continue to pay nothing for their retirement and medical.

So..........who wins here? Which party?

In the short run Reps, but in the long run people are going to get upset, if long-held benefits, benefits also enjoyed by non-union workers, are curtailed. This isn't about the money now, but an underhanded power grab.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Easy, the GOP does.

You've got hundreds of millions of people watching this. Many of them, almost 20%, are either unemployed or underemployed. Another 25% or so haven't gotten cola raises or any raises in years, or had to take pay cuts to stay employed. They know the economy sucks.

And they're watching 30,000 union members who average $89,500 a year falsifying gov't documents to skip work to whine about their work status? They arent getting laid off. They are well paid. And they're marching?

The public at large is sick of them. It's gonna cause a backlash against the left, well, for the few that still support the left after Obama.

After this, ONLY the radical, far left delusional Dem's will vote Dem.

And the GOP wins because, well, they're doing exactly what they got elected to do. Massive gov't debt scares people. We've woken up to this fact. And seeing the GOP actually cutting spending is proof that we need to vote them in more often.

Quit lying about their compensation. Show a bit of dignity for once in your wretched excuse for a life.

The unions already won the public opinion battle in Wisconsin when they agreed to the benefits concessions Walker demanded.

 

[B. Kidd]

I can see future PolAds now:

Interviewer: "Did you show up at the State Capitol today?"
Dem Legislator: "No. But I did have a good nights sleep at a Holiday Inn!"

 

[WillowTree]

We The People Win.

 

[bucs90]

Easy, the GOP does.

You've got hundreds of millions of people watching this. Many of them, almost 20%, are either unemployed or underemployed. Another 25% or so haven't gotten cola raises or any raises in years, or had to take pay cuts to stay employed. They know the economy sucks.

And they're watching 30,000 union members who average $89,500 a year falsifying gov't documents to skip work to whine about their work status? They arent getting laid off. They are well paid. And they're marching?

The public at large is sick of them. It's gonna cause a backlash against the left, well, for the few that still support the left after Obama.

After this, ONLY the radical, far left delusional Dem's will vote Dem.

And the GOP wins because, well, they're doing exactly what they got elected to do. Massive gov't debt scares people. We've woken up to this fact. And seeing the GOP actually cutting spending is proof that we need to vote them in more often.

Quit lying about their compensation. Show a bit of dignity for once in your wretched excuse for a life.

The unions already won the public opinion battle in Wisconsin when they agreed to the benefits concessions Walker demanded.

Me? Dignity?

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

 

[shintao]

Me? Dignity?

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

So you are saying they make the same wages as the average private sector worker. And if we were to have a way to average out the benefits (CEOs averaging 9 million), they would probably be making less than the private sector. I am surprised there is any beef to this at all.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Just sort of curious to the forum sentiment as far as the political fallout nationwide..............

Of course, a necessary preface is that the last two years have seen disasterous levels of unemployment in the private sector and a massive growth in the public sector while union employees continue to pay nothing for their retirement and medical.

So..........who wins here? Which party?

In the short run Reps, but in the long run people are going to get upset, if long-held benefits, benefits also enjoyed by non-union workers, are curtailed. This isn't about the money now, but an underhanded power grab.

Hey komrad...there is nothing "underhanded" about it...it's direct and in your face...the Republicans overwhelmingly won Wisconsin fair and square....they are reflecting the Voice of The People.....sucks to be you....

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

Actually the onus is on you to support your claims. Now it's understood that the $50,000 figure is derived from Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers. OK. However you claim the benefits package is valued at $39,500, it would be interesting to determine the source and credibility of that information.

For example if you go to the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District page (LINK) and look at their open enrollment information you will see that Single coverage is $1,012.15 (Aetna) or $560.69 (United) and family coverage is $2,237.21 (Aetna) or $1,471.73 (United). I assume that one is PPO and the other HMO coverage. Annualized those amounts would be $10,121.5, $5606.90, $22,372.10, and $14,471.730 remembering that teachers are paid on 10-month premium cycles not 12-month.

Also it would not be honest to take average salary ($50,000) and add the highest premium ($22,372.10) to all cases because not all teachers:

• Have families
• Select the family PPO option (some choose HMO)
• Or don't choose medical through their employer, they may take medical through a spouse for example
• Or you may have multiple employees on one plan (a husband and wife may both be teachers, therefore one family plan covers two employees).

In just the case of medical insurance you would need to determine the average cost of medical insurance as applied to population, then add it to the average salary for an honest number. Adding the highest cost to average salary is not an honest indicator.



In my school district (in Virginia) we typically apply 38% of base salary to determine the true cost of the employee but that includes the employers portion of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax @ 6.2%, Workers Comp, and Benefits.


So where does you number come from?



>>>>

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

Actually the onus is on you to support your claims. Now it's understood that the $50,000 figure is derived from Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers. OK. However you claim the benefits package is valued at $39,500, it would be interesting to determine the source and credibility of that information.

For example if you go to the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District page (LINK) and look at their open enrollment information you will see that Single coverage is $1,012.15 (Aetna) or $560.69 (United) and family coverage is $2,237.21 (Aetna) or $1,471.73 (United). I assume that one is PPO and the other HMO coverage. Annualized those amounts would be $10,121.5, $5606.90, $22,372.10, and $14,471.730 remembering that teachers are paid on 10-month premium cycles not 12-month.

Also it would not be honest to take average salary ($50,000) and add the highest premium ($22,372.10) to all cases because not all teachers:

• Have families
• Select the family PPO option (some choose HMO)
• Or don't choose medical through their employer, they may take medical through a spouse for example
• Or you may have multiple employees on one plan (a husband and wife may both be teachers, therefore one family plan covers two employees).

In just the case of medical insurance you would need to determine the average cost of medical insurance as applied to population, then add it to the average salary for an honest number. Adding the highest cost to average salary is not an honest indicator.



In my school district (in Virginia) we typically apply 38% of base salary to determine the true cost of the employee but that includes the employers portion of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax @ 6.2%, Workers Comp, and Benefits.


So where does you number come from?



>>>>

Your health insurance cost examples don't count because they can't buy from them...

One of the major reasons for union busting in Wisconsin is the health insurance scam......because the union requires that they buy insurance from WEA Trust....an insurance company established by and closely associated with the union....meaning big health costs $$$....

In fact, Gov. Walker recently cited WEA Trust as the #1 reason for collective bargaining reform.

If they can buy insurance from competitive carriers (like the examples you give) they can save the taxpayers MILLIONS...

Insurance Scam Driving Wisconsin Union Debate - Page 1 - Kyle Olson - Townhall Conservative

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

Actually the onus is on you to support your claims. Now it's understood that the $50,000 figure is derived from Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers. OK. However you claim the benefits package is valued at $39,500, it would be interesting to determine the source and credibility of that information.

For example if you go to the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District page (LINK) and look at their open enrollment information you will see that Single coverage is $1,012.15 (Aetna) or $560.69 (United) and family coverage is $2,237.21 (Aetna) or $1,471.73 (United). I assume that one is PPO and the other HMO coverage. Annualized those amounts would be $10,121.5, $5606.90, $22,372.10, and $14,471.730 remembering that teachers are paid on 10-month premium cycles not 12-month.

Also it would not be honest to take average salary ($50,000) and add the highest premium ($22,372.10) to all cases because not all teachers:

• Have families
• Select the family PPO option (some choose HMO)
• Or don't choose medical through their employer, they may take medical through a spouse for example
• Or you may have multiple employees on one plan (a husband and wife may both be teachers, therefore one family plan covers two employees).

In just the case of medical insurance you would need to determine the average cost of medical insurance as applied to population, then add it to the average salary for an honest number. Adding the highest cost to average salary is not an honest indicator.



In my school district (in Virginia) we typically apply 38% of base salary to determine the true cost of the employee but that includes the employers portion of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax @ 6.2%, Workers Comp, and Benefits.


So where does you number come from?



>>>>

Their numbers come from the same crowd who told us Obama's trip was going to cost 200 million a day.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Your health insurance cost examples don't count because they can't buy from them...

<<SNIP>>

If they can buy insurance from competitive carriers (like the examples you give) they can save the taxpayers MILLIONS...

The example I provided, and linked to, was the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District, 5225 West Vliet Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53208.


>>>>

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

Actually the onus is on you to support your claims. Now it's understood that the $50,000 figure is derived from Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers. OK. However you claim the benefits package is valued at $39,500, it would be interesting to determine the source and credibility of that information.

For example if you go to the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District page (LINK) and look at their open enrollment information you will see that Single coverage is $1,012.15 (Aetna) or $560.69 (United) and family coverage is $2,237.21 (Aetna) or $1,471.73 (United). I assume that one is PPO and the other HMO coverage. Annualized those amounts would be $10,121.5, $5606.90, $22,372.10, and $14,471.730 remembering that teachers are paid on 10-month premium cycles not 12-month.

Also it would not be honest to take average salary ($50,000) and add the highest premium ($22,372.10) to all cases because not all teachers:

• Have families
• Select the family PPO option (some choose HMO)
• Or don't choose medical through their employer, they may take medical through a spouse for example
• Or you may have multiple employees on one plan (a husband and wife may both be teachers, therefore one family plan covers two employees).

In just the case of medical insurance you would need to determine the average cost of medical insurance as applied to population, then add it to the average salary for an honest number. Adding the highest cost to average salary is not an honest indicator.



In my school district (in Virginia) we typically apply 38% of base salary to determine the true cost of the employee but that includes the employers portion of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax @ 6.2%, Workers Comp, and Benefits.


So where does you number come from?



>>>>

Their numbers come from the same crowd who told us Obama's trip was going to cost 200 million a day.

Typical leftie sniping from the uneducated supporters of education union scams..
Read this...(my bolding)

The pressure derives from state law, which makes the identity of a school’s health insurance carrier a topic of collective bargaining between local unions and school boards. That allows union representatives to come to the table demanding expensive WEA Trust coverage, and frequently school boards give in.

[snip]

Once school districts sign up for WEA Trust coverage, and write the carrier into collective bargaining agreements, the shackles are on. And they aren’t easily removed.

Local unions often refuse to have the provision stricken from school labor contracts in subsequent negotiations. If a school board presses the issue in an effort to save money, WEAC will frequently take the case to arbitration.

The Trust’s business practices also complicate the problem.

Districts need employee claim histories to provide to potential bidders, but WEA Trust sometimes refuses to surrender the information, making it more difficult, if not impossible, for competitors to draft an accurate insurance estimate.

WEA Trust also reportedly threatens districts with higher premiums – by removing them from regional insurance pools with lower rates – if they consider a cheaper carrier.

Some districts have managed to break WEA Trust’s shackles and the savings tell the story. Officials from 15 districts recently told EAG that they saved six figures the first year under new coverage, while still providing quality health benefits for employees. They also say the cost of their new coverage has remained steady in subsequent years.

But there is a catch. Officials at all of the breakaway districts said they had to surrender, or at least share, the insurance savings with their local unions, generally in the form of salary increases. That left them with little or no extra revenue to cover other costs.

In other words, WEAC, the union that has been most vocal during the last week’s protests has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. If the union can defeat Scott Walker’s reform plans, not only does it keep the union dues of teachers, it also gets to keep its health insurance monopoly intact.

Of course, you’re not hearing this in the press as it doesn’t fit the convenient narrative of class warfare. So, the next time you have someone tell you how “mean” Scott Walker is for attacking the teachers’ union, you can simply reply: Follow the money.

» Follow the Money: What the Wisconsin Education Association Isn’t Talking About - Big Government