Wisconsin: Don't Retreat or Reload...Recall!

[Big Fitz]

Are you saying Scott Walker's side doesn't have enough money to hire marchers or that no one is willing to accept corporate money to participate on his behalf?

Ah, so you ADMITT these are HIRED thugs? good for you, like we all didn't know it already.

Apparently you don't know it. I was there. Was not hired. Am not a thug. AND I live in Wisconsin.

Useful idiot then.

 

[EriktheRed]

Ruh roh ...

Republican incumbents look dominant in just two of the districts — the 20th (southeastern Wisconsin) and 28th (southwestern Milwaukee suburbs). No surprises there. Those are the first and third reddest districts in the entire state, respectively.

No surprise either in the 32nd (southeastern Wisconsin, straddling the Minnesota and Iowa borders), the state’s bluest district to be held by a Republican. Incumbent Dan Kapanke faces a 55-41 deficit against a Democratic challenger. President Obama won the district 61-38.

In the 18th (Oshkosh, Fond du Lac and surroundings), Republican incumbent Randy Hopper faces a 44-49 deficit against a generic Democrat. Polling by SurveyUSA last week paints an even direr picture for Hopper — trailing 43-54. Petition canvassers in the district claim that his estranged wife and maid signed the recall petition. Whether those rumors are true or not, it’s clear that this is the second best pickup opportunity for Democrats in this recall effort. They need just one more.

In the 14th (central Wisconsin, Marquette), Republican Luther Olsen will be fighting for his political life, trailing a generic Democrat 49-47. Obama won the district 52-47.

In two more districts, Republicans lead narrowly, but are under 50 percent: In the 10th (St. Croix, northwestern Wisconsin), Sheila Harsdorf holds a 48-44 lead, while in the 2nd (northeastern Wisconsin, outside Green Bay), Rob Cowles holds a mere 45-43 lead. Obama won both districts narrowly.

Finally, Democrats are within striking range in the 8th (Milwaukee’s northern suburbs), where incumbent Republican Alberta Darling holds a single-digit lead — 52-44.

So, if you weren’t keeping score, Democrats have a fighting chance or better in six districts. They only need three.

Wisconsin recall is real - TheHill.com

I hope y'all er sharpenin' dem der pitchforks, ya hear?!

I wonder what kind of deficit the fleebaggers are facing in a 'generic poll'.

This poll is about as useful as chicken shit on a pump handle.

Keep deluding yo' radical ass with fantasy polls.

Y'know, I wonder, too.

Haven't heard much lately about how the efforts to recall those "fleebaggers" is going. I DID hear about how an group from Utah had to coordinate with a local group for their signatures to be legally counted.

 

[EriktheRed]

Fox sounds the alarm: Republicans fear Wisconsin recall effort - Daily Kos TV (beta)

 

[Synthaholic]

 

[georgephillip]

If Wisconsin's fiscal problems stem from a lack of revenue brought about by the Great Recession, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican won't do much to solve that problem.

On most issues in most states Wall Street controls the responses of both major parties.

Organized labor issues in Wisconsin is an exception.

I don't see how eliminating collective bargaining in Wisconsin solves a problem Wall Street created. I can see how weakening organized political opposition to Wall Street's corporate agenda would solve a big problem for David Koch and Scott Walker.

I don't think WI fiscal problems started with Wall St. or the recession You don't rack up 3 Billion in debt overnight.

As for collective bargaining?/ If I read it correctly the Union members still have the right to bargain wages and if I'm not mistaken, benifits as well. What else do you need to collectivly bargain over??

If Walkers plans for WI don't create jobs and repair the States fiscal problems then he will be voted out in 3yrs. The Dems will be voted in and the status quo will be alive and well in WI and the taxpayers/voters will have effectivly hosed themselves yet again.

Only if you're president and propose massive spending. Then you can rack up a deficit of 1.3 TRILLION in a single year.

Would that be the same year US gross national income was $14 TRILLION?

Possibly the same year US corporations paid about 5% of their reported profits in US income taxes?

Or maybe it was the same year a $13 TRILLION bailout of Wall Street parasites enabled the richest 2% of Americans to nearly double their "fair" share of returns to wealth?

You're becoming a less-than-useful idiot for the Koch brothers.

 

[georgephillip]

Georgeeeee tell us how bargaining for classroom sizes by union negotiators is a benefit to teachers. Is it easier working conditions? Is it so the school districts are forced to hire more teachers? Hmmmmmm. I wonder why that would be. Are teachers in Wisconsin forced to join the unions or pay a "agency shop fee?" Does the state automatically take those union fees out of their pay? Collective bargaining in Wisconsin was NOT obliterated by Walker, the costly ridiculous benefits were no longer negotiable collectively. All state employees can still negotiate for base salary. You need to stop reading the Huff'n Puff post.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew about salary. Thought it was kinda funny that Beni's were still included. Can't remember where I read it.

Sure wasn't HuffPO. LOL

FireDogLake?

"The bill would strip workers’ ability to bargain over everything but pay, and salary increases wouldn’t be allowed to increase more than inflation.

"Furthermore, public employees would have to pay more in health and pension costs, contracts would last only one year at a time, employees would have to re-certify the union annually and individual members would be able to withhold dues from their union. Such stripping of protections invariably leads to poor working conditions, as well as low wages and benefits.

"That’s why Walker put it into a budget bill.

"Just now, three conservative Republicans in Wisconsin who happen to be public employees gave a conference call where they decried Walker’s effort. Bob Jahn, a highway employee from Green Lake and a 'proud conservative,' called the plan an intrusion on individual rights which singles out public employees over other Wisconsin workers and goes against every core conservative principle there is. 'I have disagreed with my union in the past,' Jahn said, “but I’ve never been more energized to go out and fight with public employees of this state.'

"Brenda Kline, a food service worker from Green Bay, said she went to the polls last year to 'protect our freedoms from government threat and to create jobs. I never dreamed that this would be the result.'

"Janice Bobholz, a deputy sheriff in Dodge Country, called the right to collectively bargain 'a freedom that many have died to protect.'

"Despite the fact that law enforcement personnel is exempt from many of the restrictions in the budget proposal, Bobholz said that 'an attack on the rights of one American is an attack on the rights of all Americans.'

"This is pretty strong language from Republicans, suggesting that Wisconsin may not be ready to turn into a right-to-work state for public employees overnight."

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/02/14/debate-over-wisconsin-collective-bargaining-gets-heated-as-republicans-waver/

 

[Claudette]

Georgeeeee tell us how bargaining for classroom sizes by union negotiators is a benefit to teachers. Is it easier working conditions? Is it so the school districts are forced to hire more teachers? Hmmmmmm. I wonder why that would be. Are teachers in Wisconsin forced to join the unions or pay a "agency shop fee?" Does the state automatically take those union fees out of their pay? Collective bargaining in Wisconsin was NOT obliterated by Walker, the costly ridiculous benefits were no longer negotiable collectively. All state employees can still negotiate for base salary. You need to stop reading the Huff'n Puff post.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew about salary. Thought it was kinda funny that Beni's were still included. Can't remember where I read it.

Sure wasn't HuffPO. LOL

FireDogLake?

"The bill would strip workers’ ability to bargain over everything but pay, and salary increases wouldn’t be allowed to increase more than inflation.

"Furthermore, public employees would have to pay more in health and pension costs, contracts would last only one year at a time, employees would have to re-certify the union annually and individual members would be able to withhold dues from their union. Such stripping of protections invariably leads to poor working conditions, as well as low wages and benefits.

"That’s why Walker put it into a budget bill.

"Just now, three conservative Republicans in Wisconsin who happen to be public employees gave a conference call where they decried Walker’s effort. Bob Jahn, a highway employee from Green Lake and a 'proud conservative,' called the plan an intrusion on individual rights which singles out public employees over other Wisconsin workers and goes against every core conservative principle there is. 'I have disagreed with my union in the past,' Jahn said, “but I’ve never been more energized to go out and fight with public employees of this state.'

"Brenda Kline, a food service worker from Green Bay, said she went to the polls last year to 'protect our freedoms from government threat and to create jobs. I never dreamed that this would be the result.'

"Janice Bobholz, a deputy sheriff in Dodge Country, called the right to collectively bargain 'a freedom that many have died to protect.'

"Despite the fact that law enforcement personnel is exempt from many of the restrictions in the budget proposal, Bobholz said that 'an attack on the rights of one American is an attack on the rights of all Americans.'

"This is pretty strong language from Republicans, suggesting that Wisconsin may not be ready to turn into a right-to-work state for public employees overnight."

Debate Over Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Gets Heated as Republicans Waver | FDL News Desk

What the heck is wrong with expecting public sector workers to contribute more to their own HC and pension costs?? Why should they get a free ride??

Yearly renewal of their contracts?? Nothing wrong there either. Things can change in a year. Renegotiating is a good idea in my book.

As for the yearly re-certification of the Union? Members may just decide the union isn't worth the dues payed to it since it can no longer get them sweetheart deals. Bye Bye union.

As for stripping of protections. WOW what a whopper. I guess OSHA and the State and Fed laws to protect workers just folded up and left WI??

I guess the public sector workers will be on the same level as the taxpayers supplying their salaries. Works for me.

BTW I am a public sector worker.

 

[georgephillip]

Thanks for the clarification. I knew about salary. Thought it was kinda funny that Beni's were still included. Can't remember where I read it.

Sure wasn't HuffPO. LOL

FireDogLake?

"The bill would strip workers’ ability to bargain over everything but pay, and salary increases wouldn’t be allowed to increase more than inflation.

"Furthermore, public employees would have to pay more in health and pension costs, contracts would last only one year at a time, employees would have to re-certify the union annually and individual members would be able to withhold dues from their union. Such stripping of protections invariably leads to poor working conditions, as well as low wages and benefits.

"That’s why Walker put it into a budget bill.

"Just now, three conservative Republicans in Wisconsin who happen to be public employees gave a conference call where they decried Walker’s effort. Bob Jahn, a highway employee from Green Lake and a 'proud conservative,' called the plan an intrusion on individual rights which singles out public employees over other Wisconsin workers and goes against every core conservative principle there is. 'I have disagreed with my union in the past,' Jahn said, “but I’ve never been more energized to go out and fight with public employees of this state.'

"Brenda Kline, a food service worker from Green Bay, said she went to the polls last year to 'protect our freedoms from government threat and to create jobs. I never dreamed that this would be the result.'

"Janice Bobholz, a deputy sheriff in Dodge Country, called the right to collectively bargain 'a freedom that many have died to protect.'

"Despite the fact that law enforcement personnel is exempt from many of the restrictions in the budget proposal, Bobholz said that 'an attack on the rights of one American is an attack on the rights of all Americans.'

"This is pretty strong language from Republicans, suggesting that Wisconsin may not be ready to turn into a right-to-work state for public employees overnight."

Debate Over Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Gets Heated as Republicans Waver | FDL News Desk

What the heck is wrong with expecting public sector workers to contribute more to their own HC and pension costs?? Why should they get a free ride??

Yearly renewal of their contracts?? Nothing wrong there either. Things can change in a year. Renegotiating is a good idea in my book.

As for the yearly re-certification of the Union? Members may just decide the union isn't worth the dues payed to it since it can no longer get them sweetheart deals. Bye Bye union.

As for stripping of protections. WOW what a whopper. I guess OSHA and the State and Fed laws to protect workers just folded up and left WI??

I guess the public sector workers will be on the same level as the taxpayers supplying their salaries. Works for me.

BTW I am a public sector worker.

Public sector workers and 99% of taxpayers have watched as the richest 1% of Americans have enhanced their share of national income by almost ten percentage points over the last three decades.

"To put this in context, the size of this upward redistribution to the richest 1 percent over the last three decades is roughly large enough to double the income of all the households in the bottom half of the income distribution.

"The upward redistribution amounts to an average of more than 1.2 million dollars a year for each of the families in the richest 1 percent of the population."

It's not a coincidence private union membership has declined during that same time period. Now it's time for public unions to catch hell for an economy plundered by corporations and their political hacks like Ronald Reagan and Scott Walker and Barack Obama.

Wisconsin's budget has gone into the red for the same reason every other state except North Dakota's has, because the Great Recession resulted in massive losses of tax revenue. Walker's solution to this loss of consumer demand is to significantly reduce the purchasing power of 300,000 middle class consumers and taxpayers which, in turn, will trickle down by costing Wisconsin thousands of private sector jobs.

Public sector workers and 99% of taxpayers are on the same side in this fight against elected Republicans AND Democrats and Wall Street.

You may feel legitimate disgust watching corrupt union officials conspire with venal Democrats to "fleece the taxpayers", but that corruption pales in comparison to what the Koch brothers have in mind after public union opposition to corporate rule goes the way of private labor unions.

 

[editec]

The natives are getting restless, corporatists.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The more you tools think your masters' power is assured and unassailable, the closer we come to a schism in society that cannot be repaired.

More and more of the Sheep are looking up.

 

[georgephillip]

"If you make less than $114,000 a year (90% of us), you've been financially damaged by the flow of income to the richest 1% of Americans over the past 30 years.

"Based on Internal Revenue Service figures, if middle- and upper-middle class families had maintained the same share of American productivity that they held in 1980, they would be making an average of $12,500 more per year."

The Big Obscenity: A Trillion Dollars a Year to the Richest 1% | Common Dreams

 

[Claudette]

FireDogLake?

"The bill would strip workers’ ability to bargain over everything but pay, and salary increases wouldn’t be allowed to increase more than inflation.

"Furthermore, public employees would have to pay more in health and pension costs, contracts would last only one year at a time, employees would have to re-certify the union annually and individual members would be able to withhold dues from their union. Such stripping of protections invariably leads to poor working conditions, as well as low wages and benefits.

"That’s why Walker put it into a budget bill.

"Just now, three conservative Republicans in Wisconsin who happen to be public employees gave a conference call where they decried Walker’s effort. Bob Jahn, a highway employee from Green Lake and a 'proud conservative,' called the plan an intrusion on individual rights which singles out public employees over other Wisconsin workers and goes against every core conservative principle there is. 'I have disagreed with my union in the past,' Jahn said, “but I’ve never been more energized to go out and fight with public employees of this state.'

"Brenda Kline, a food service worker from Green Bay, said she went to the polls last year to 'protect our freedoms from government threat and to create jobs. I never dreamed that this would be the result.'

"Janice Bobholz, a deputy sheriff in Dodge Country, called the right to collectively bargain 'a freedom that many have died to protect.'

"Despite the fact that law enforcement personnel is exempt from many of the restrictions in the budget proposal, Bobholz said that 'an attack on the rights of one American is an attack on the rights of all Americans.'

"This is pretty strong language from Republicans, suggesting that Wisconsin may not be ready to turn into a right-to-work state for public employees overnight."

Debate Over Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Gets Heated as Republicans Waver | FDL News Desk

What the heck is wrong with expecting public sector workers to contribute more to their own HC and pension costs?? Why should they get a free ride??

Yearly renewal of their contracts?? Nothing wrong there either. Things can change in a year. Renegotiating is a good idea in my book.

As for the yearly re-certification of the Union? Members may just decide the union isn't worth the dues payed to it since it can no longer get them sweetheart deals. Bye Bye union.

As for stripping of protections. WOW what a whopper. I guess OSHA and the State and Fed laws to protect workers just folded up and left WI??

I guess the public sector workers will be on the same level as the taxpayers supplying their salaries. Works for me.

BTW I am a public sector worker.

Public sector workers and 99% of taxpayers have watched as the richest 1% of Americans have enhanced their share of national income by almost ten percentage points over the last three decades.

"To put this in context, the size of this upward redistribution to the richest 1 percent over the last three decades is roughly large enough to double the income of all the households in the bottom half of the income distribution.

"The upward redistribution amounts to an average of more than 1.2 million dollars a year for each of the families in the richest 1 percent of the population."

It's not a coincidence private union membership has declined during that same time period. Now it's time for public unions to catch hell for an economy plundered by corporations and their political hacks like Ronald Reagan and Scott Walker and Barack Obama.

Wisconsin's budget has gone into the red for the same reason every other state except North Dakota's has, because the Great Recession resulted in massive losses of tax revenue. Walker's solution to this loss of consumer demand is to significantly reduce the purchasing power of 300,000 middle class consumers and taxpayers which, in turn, will trickle down by costing Wisconsin thousands of private sector jobs.

Public sector workers and 99% of taxpayers are on the same side in this fight against elected Republicans AND Democrats and Wall Street.

You may feel legitimate disgust watching corrupt union officials conspire with venal Democrats to "fleece the taxpayers", but that corruption pales in comparison to what the Koch brothers have in mind after public union opposition to corporate rule goes the way of private labor unions.

Jesus. Theres that top 1% again.

I'm beginning to believe that you have real class envy there GP. You could line right up with OL'Fail&GO. Personally I have better things to do than worry about what someone else is earning. I also fail to see what the top 1% and their wealth has to do with public sector workers hosing the taxpayers of WI via their union sweetheart deals??

I do however love that top 1%. I love them even more everytime I think about how much in taxes I would be paying if they weren't there to pay them for me.

I did a little reading on the billionaire Koch brothers. I also did some reading on billionaire George Soros. I think I like the Koch's much better.

 

[georgephillip]

There's a tendency for those who earn their living from productive labor to reflexively believe the richest 1% have earned their increased share of national income over the last three decades.

Hard work is only part of the reason the rich have gained nearly a 10% increase of total US income. They have also donated generously to the political campaigns of Republicans AND Democrats who've engaged in trade and dollar policies that deliberately suppressed the wages of manufacturing employees.

And then came the biggest transfer of private debt into public debt in all history. George Soros and the Koch brothers made out like bandits in that one, AND they are not done stealing.

The $13 trillion Wall Street bailout worked to keep the debt overhead of 98% of Americans intact while nearly doubling the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rent and capital gains) of the richest 2% of Americans.

This is nearly double what the richest 2% received a generation ago, and you ain't seen nothing yet. Greed is not a virtue. It's a disease that blinds those afflicted to everything but their own selfish ends.

Banks that were too big to fail in 2008 are now too big to save.
Google Iceland.

Until the 90% of Americans who currently have better things to do than worry about what someone else is earning discover they were born into class warfare, wealth inequality will continue to expand primarily because the rich few pay taxes at 15% compared to the 35% rate paid by those losing their jobs and homes and pensions.

 

[Big Fitz]

The natives are getting restless, corporatists.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The more you tools think your masters' power is assured and unassailable, the closer we come to a schism in society that cannot be repaired.

More and more of the Sheep are looking up.

Please. Riot. burn. Prove that in the end you are the fascists we all know you are so we can end you once and for all, toss you in the schism and fill it in on your philosophical bones forever.

 

[Claudette]

There's a tendency for those who earn their living from productive labor to reflexively believe the richest 1% have earned their increased share of national income over the last three decades.

Hard work is only part of the reason the rich have gained nearly a 10% increase of total US income. They have also donated generously to the political campaigns of Republicans AND Democrats who've engaged in trade and dollar policies that deliberately suppressed the wages of manufacturing employees.

And then came the biggest transfer of private debt into public debt in all history. George Soros and the Koch brothers made out like bandits in that one, AND they are not done stealing.

The $13 trillion Wall Street bailout worked to keep the debt overhead of 98% of Americans intact while nearly doubling the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rent and capital gains) of the richest 2% of Americans.

This is nearly double what the richest 2% received a generation ago, and you ain't seen nothing yet. Greed is not a virtue. It's a disease that blinds those afflicted to everything but their own selfish ends.

Banks that were too big to fail in 2008 are now too big to save.
Google Iceland.

Until the 90% of Americans who currently have better things to do than worry about what someone else is earning discover they were born into class warfare, wealth inequality will continue to expand primarily because the rich few pay taxes at 15% compared to the 35% rate paid by those losing their jobs and homes and pensions.

Born into class warfare?? Not hardly.

I don't think in terms of class. You obviously do.

I have nothing against anyone who has the drive, determination, willpower and just plain balls to make themselves rich. Good for them. I applaud them for their abilities and the fact that they pay more in taxes than I ever will. I hope they all keep up the good work.

I'm busy living my life so I still won't waste my time being jealous of them, their wealth or their lives.

Apparantly thats your cup of tea so by all means have at it.

 

[georgephillip]

Are you applauding GE?

Not only are they bringing good things to life in Japan, they are also paying no taxes on $14.5 billion in profits last year. In fact, they're asking for a $3.2 billion rebate from those who don't think in terms of class but still manage to pay their fair share.

Perhaps you are not interested in the dialectic?
Doesn't matter.
The dialectic is interested in you and what you possess.

 

[Claudette]

Nope.

GE is a company not a person.

I applaud people who go out and make themselves better off by their own drive, determination hard work and sweat. Small business owners and individuals not companies.

I am in favor of getting rid of all tax breaks and subsidies. No more freebies to any companies or individuals.

As for GE. Immelt has hitched his wagon to the BO green express and I'm sure he is hoping and praying that BO gets re-elected.

I wonder how much GE stands to lose if the green express crashs and burns??

 

[georgephillip]

I think SCOTUS and most elected Republicans AND Democrats would disagree with you about whether GE is a "person"; however, we're in agreement on ending all tax breaks and subsidies for corporations and individuals, I hope.

Jeffrey Immelt has hitched his wagon to globalization.
He has stated repeatedly that "Buy American" is not something he can support.

No doubt he will do his level best to BO gets a second term, but Immelt and his ilk will continue to profit regardless of whether a Democrat OR Republican moves into the White House in 2013.

Hypothetically, if the US economy is in even worse shape in the fall of 2012 than it was in 2008 (if the US dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, for example), how will that change how you vote?

 

[Claudette]

I won't know that until I see who is running for the Reps.

If the reps field someone without a message I can supprt then I will vote 3rd party.

The really need to close the loopholes in the tax system that allow GE and others to get away with paying no taxes while making billions. Since both parties take the campaign money I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

GP its been nice to carry on a conversation with someone who doesn't call everyone an idiot or asshole or suggest that they fuck off. Hope you have a nice day.

 

[georgephillip]

Likewise, Claudette.

I've been communicating on the internet for slightly more than one year, and the one thing I'm sure of is how much I've learned from people I probably could not communicate with for five minutes if we were in the same room.

Hopefully cyberspace will pave the way to an abundance of nice days for all of us.(even the idiots and assholes?)

 

[Gadawg73]

Public sector unions should not be allowed unless their employers, THE TAXPAYERS, are at the bargaining table.