Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[Trajan]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

dude, you have been asked the same question 3 times.

what is the mortgage payment of your home, IF its paid what WAS it averaged over the past 10 years.



here you DO NOT deserve the answer because you have been jerking me off for 4 poages now, but I will answer anyway;


I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

bay area, California....

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

dollars? no thx, I am not telling you my salary, here I get more than 70 but less than 100 take home. I pay, NOW 2% of that amount into my defined plan.

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

5700 a year.

 

[Trajan]

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

He's been carefully avoiding the government DEFINED LIFETIME BENEFITS too trying to muddy the water by saying things about defined benefits instead.

A lifetime benefit is something like 50-80% of pay till the day you die then a percentage to the survivor. The private industry may or may not offer such a plan but they NEVER offer it for no contributions by the employee!

But he continues to try and muddy the waters and run away thinking nobody remembers what he's been advocating.

For crying out loud!! Is THAT what's you've harping about all this time?

Yes, she get DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS for which she pays a contribution (not sure how much she contributes). She gets $28K a year for life along with a single medical plan that will cost her around $350 per month. THAT'S her pension and medical. And I don't mind telling you this since her salary is posted every year in the local newspaper.

And MY DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS are quite a bit higher than hers.

Again....so what?

.

you do not pay attention to people when they write to you, so stop making demands of others...this will be the THIRD time I have asked or made comment on this and you have NOT responded.....ready?



sure?




her 28k is worth MUCH MUCH more BECAUSE it is a DEFINED pension...DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

 

[Trajan]

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

Links please...and he and I said pension so don't even try that. Links please.


and I am still waiting for the insults I cast at teachers.

What the hell have we been talking about? Again, most major employers around here offer DEFINED BENEFIT PENSION PLANS.

I get one already, my current company offers one one, my dad gets one from CAT, my cousin gets one from CAT, another cousin who works at CAT will be getting one, my neighbor who just retired from the coal mine is getting one.

And, if I'm reading this right, more than 1/3 of corporations still offer them.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

As to your teacher insults I looked back and you did not personally insult teachers unless calling them overpaid and not deserving of their wages (which you obviously feel or we wouldn't be having this discussion) an insult. My bad. But it's also easy to do when I'm trying to educate up to four people at one time.

.

thats the shittiest link I saw, why did you quote that? and there are like 10 that speaks to this...a third? how a about only 17 of 100 top co.s provide defined pension plans. Perhaps 25% of the top 500? Thats down from 67% since 1998, in 13 years....

 

[DaGoose]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

dude, you have been asked the same question 3 times.

what is the mortgage payment of your home, IF its paid what WAS it averaged over the past 10 years.



here you DO NOT deserve the answer because you have been jerking me off for 4 poages now, but I will answer anyway;


I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

bay area, California....

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

dollars? no thx, I am not telling you my salary, here I get more than 70 but less than 100 take home. I pay, NOW 2% of that amount into my defined plan.

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

5700 a year.

NOW I understand what you were asking. My monthly mortgage payment over 25 years was around $350 per month. (My house is worth a whole lot more than it was 25 years ago) That's not incuding taxes and insurance.

I have a hard time believing that $5700 is just the COUNTY portion of your property tax bill. That's more than my ENTIRE tax bill. Are you sure you didn't include your city and school taxes too?

And you misunderstood what I asked as far as what public pensions cost you. I meant how much they cost the average taxpayer per year.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Links please...and he and I said pension so don't even try that. Links please.


and I am still waiting for the insults I cast at teachers.

What the hell have we been talking about? Again, most major employers around here offer DEFINED BENEFIT PENSION PLANS.

I get one already, my current company offers one one, my dad gets one from CAT, my cousin gets one from CAT, another cousin who works at CAT will be getting one, my neighbor who just retired from the coal mine is getting one.

And, if I'm reading this right, more than 1/3 of corporations still offer them.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

As to your teacher insults I looked back and you did not personally insult teachers unless calling them overpaid and not deserving of their wages (which you obviously feel or we wouldn't be having this discussion) an insult. My bad. But it's also easy to do when I'm trying to educate up to four people at one time.

.

thats the shittiest link I saw, why did you quote that? and there are like 10 that speaks to this...a third? how a about only 17 of 100 top co.s provide defined pension plans. Perhaps 25% of the top 500? Thats down from 67% since 1998, in 13 years....

Well that's a far cry from none. My point was that defined benefit pensions are still around and still being used although I concede that they are declining.

.

 

[DaGoose]

He's been carefully avoiding the government DEFINED LIFETIME BENEFITS too trying to muddy the water by saying things about defined benefits instead.

A lifetime benefit is something like 50-80% of pay till the day you die then a percentage to the survivor. The private industry may or may not offer such a plan but they NEVER offer it for no contributions by the employee!

But he continues to try and muddy the waters and run away thinking nobody remembers what he's been advocating.

For crying out loud!! Is THAT what's you've harping about all this time?

Yes, she get DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS for which she pays a contribution (not sure how much she contributes). She gets $28K a year for life along with a single medical plan that will cost her around $350 per month. THAT'S her pension and medical. And I don't mind telling you this since her salary is posted every year in the local newspaper.

And MY DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS are quite a bit higher than hers.

Again....so what?

.

you do not pay attention to people when they write to you, so stop making demands of others...this will be the THIRD time I have asked or made comment on this and you have NOT responded.....ready?



sure?




her 28k is worth MUCH MUCH more BECAUSE it is a DEFINED pension...DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Sure, I understand that. But that begs the question, "What do you want to do about it"? If you were the Governor and could make the decision just what would you do?

This is an important question so consider your answer carefully....

.

 

[Trajan]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

dude, you have been asked the same question 3 times.

what is the mortgage payment of your home, IF its paid what WAS it averaged over the past 10 years.



here you DO NOT deserve the answer because you have been jerking me off for 4 poages now, but I will answer anyway;


I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

bay area, California....

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

dollars? no thx, I am not telling you my salary, here I get more than 70 but less than 100 take home. I pay, NOW 2% of that amount into my defined plan.

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

5700 a year.

NOW I understand what you were asking. My monthly mortgage payment over 25 years was around $350 per month. (My house is worth a whole lot more than it was 25 years ago) That's not incuding taxes and insurance.

I have a hard time believing that $5700 is just the COUNTY portion of your property tax bill. That's more than my ENTIRE tax bill. Are you sure you didn't include your city and school taxes too?

And you misunderstood what I asked as far as what public pensions cost you. I meant how much they cost the average taxpayer per year.

.

oops, you are right, first let me tell you, my total tax per year for my property is approx. 10k ( 10150 I believe), the cty. portion is 3200.


now, $350...as in hundreds?my home owner ins. MINUS Earthquake is 1750 a year.

how many sq feet is your home? mine is 3500.

 

[Trajan]

For crying out loud!! Is THAT what's you've harping about all this time?

Yes, she get DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS for which she pays a contribution (not sure how much she contributes). She gets $28K a year for life along with a single medical plan that will cost her around $350 per month. THAT'S her pension and medical. And I don't mind telling you this since her salary is posted every year in the local newspaper.

And MY DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS are quite a bit higher than hers.

Again....so what?

.

you do not pay attention to people when they write to you, so stop making demands of others...this will be the THIRD time I have asked or made comment on this and you have NOT responded.....ready?



sure?




her 28k is worth MUCH MUCH more BECAUSE it is a DEFINED pension...DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Sure, I understand that. But that begs the question, "What do you want to do about it"? If you were the Governor and could make the decision just what would you do?

This is an important question so consider your answer carefully....

.

right now? zero, shes in shes in. but just to be clear I had a 15 year profit sharing to take with me when I got laid off in April 2009. Between jan 2008 and when I left I lost 28% of the value of that fund. NOTHING was guaranteed, that, is HUGE.

BUT from this point forward ANY new hires get a 401k type set up, period. she pays 350 for medical? in retirement? we have 90% cobra for life.

 

[thereisnospoon]

stfu, azzhole

Actually, Dems care about policy and helping each other, and cons wany money and hate, cause they're ignorant. You're welcome.

Right. The only thing democrats care about is the acquisition and retention of political power...By any means necessary
You know nothing.
We believe in the individual, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We also believe all of us should have the opportunity to achieve to the best of our abilities without interference from government. We believe in communities. We believe in neighbors helping neighbors. Such as when a town is flooded and all the people pitch in to help stack sandbags.
You people think government is your savior. The solution to all of your problems.
You people dream up one crisis after another.
GET THIS ......WE DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING HELP.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

90% of private employers no longer or will in the near future not offer pensions.
Public employee wages and benefits are way out of line with the private sector. That is the point of this movement to rein in their unions.
Yes, throughout history, those who sought to peel back the layers of the proverbial onion were always looked upon as troublemakers by those who wanted to keep the status quo.
Ya know what? Every so often the old apple cart needs to be turned over so we can put in new fruit.
What Wisconsin recall? The one you people keep wishing for?
So a few thousand union thugs don't like the way things went so now they want a do over. Ok....And you people have the fucking nerve to bitch about how the will of the people is usurped.

Actually if I'm reading this right it's closer to 36%.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

And we'll find out if "the will of the people is usurped" after the recall is over, right?

.

All employers. Not just large firms. When small business is thrown in which BTW make up for 60% of all full time employers, that percentage of non pensioned workers vs pensioned rises dramatically.
Defined benefit pensions are another perk that is no longer sustainable.
The federal government had no business involving itself in protecting pensions.
Why the hell should the taxpayers get stuck paying for private sector employees to sit home and collect a check? That law should be repealed because it is unconstitutional. It violates the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. IMO because ALL Americans do not receive pensions, the law treats people unequally.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

Once again, no one is slamming the workers. It is the unions we are going after.
Stop whining.

Who do you think makes up the unions?

.

It's not personal with the workers. Cut the bullshit. And it really doesn't matter how much you whine. We're still going after the unions.
Get this straight. We can no longer afford the public worker union demands while the private sector continues to get hammered.
We're done with this shit.

 

[DaGoose]

Once again, no one is slamming the workers. It is the unions we are going after.
Stop whining.

Who do you think makes up the unions?

.

It's not personal with the workers. Cut the bullshit. And it really doesn't matter how much you whine. We're still going after the unions.
Get this straight. We can no longer afford the public worker union demands while the private sector continues to get hammered.
We're done with this shit.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

And like it or not if you "go after the unions" you ARE going after and hurting the workers who make up those unions. So your logic is well....illogical to say the least.

And we'll find out in a few weeks if "WE" do not support public unions or not when this recall takes place.

.

 

[Trajan]

Who do you think makes up the unions?

.

It's not personal with the workers. Cut the bullshit. And it really doesn't matter how much you whine. We're still going after the unions.
Get this straight. We can no longer afford the public worker union demands while the private sector continues to get hammered.
We're done with this shit.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

And like it or not if you "go after the unions" you ARE going after and hurting the workers who make up those unions. So your logic is well....illogical to say the least.

And we'll find out in a few weeks if "WE" do not support public unions or not when this recall takes place.

.

I was laid off in April 2009, why is a teacher in Cali. worth more than I am? think and answer carefully.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

you should really be careful using that analogy. Why? because it sux.

MY TAXS pay for other jobs just as yours does, WHY should ANYONE be averse to a bad economy? Because they work in a union only makes it more difficult to let them go...its NOT a justification for their job.

 

[DaGoose]

90% of private employers no longer or will in the near future not offer pensions.
Public employee wages and benefits are way out of line with the private sector. That is the point of this movement to rein in their unions.
Yes, throughout history, those who sought to peel back the layers of the proverbial onion were always looked upon as troublemakers by those who wanted to keep the status quo.
Ya know what? Every so often the old apple cart needs to be turned over so we can put in new fruit.
What Wisconsin recall? The one you people keep wishing for?
So a few thousand union thugs don't like the way things went so now they want a do over. Ok....And you people have the fucking nerve to bitch about how the will of the people is usurped.

Actually if I'm reading this right it's closer to 36%.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

And we'll find out if "the will of the people is usurped" after the recall is over, right?

.

All employers. Not just large firms. When small business is thrown in which BTW make up for 60% of all full time employers, that percentage of non pensioned workers vs pensioned rises dramatically.
Defined benefit pensions are another perk that is no longer sustainable.
The federal government had no business involving itself in protecting pensions.
Why the hell should the taxpayers get stuck paying for private sector employees to sit home and collect a check? That law should be repealed because it is unconstitutional. It violates the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. IMO because ALL Americans do not receive pensions, the law treats people unequally.

The federal government had EVERY right to involve itself in protecting pensions. They only told these companies that "If you're going to provide pensions to workers you're going to fund them properly.". There's nothing unconstitutional about it except in your head.

.

 

[daveman]

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to work hard, be successful, and get rich you want to deprive those who are.


So why is it okay when the left does it?

 

[DaGoose]

It's not personal with the workers. Cut the bullshit. And it really doesn't matter how much you whine. We're still going after the unions.
Get this straight. We can no longer afford the public worker union demands while the private sector continues to get hammered.
We're done with this shit.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

And like it or not if you "go after the unions" you ARE going after and hurting the workers who make up those unions. So your logic is well....illogical to say the least.

And we'll find out in a few weeks if "WE" do not support public unions or not when this recall takes place.

.

I was laid off in April 2009, why is a teacher in Cali. worth more than I am? think and answer carefully.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

you should really be careful using that analogy. Why? because it sux.

MY TAXS pay for other jobs just as yours does, WHY should ANYONE be averse to a bad economy? Because they work in a union only makes it more difficult to let them go...its NOT a justification for their job.

The worth of a good teacher is as valuble as it is incalculable. Good teachers change lives, teach confidence and inspire motivation. It's hard to measure the affect they have on our society.

Students who had learned much more in kindergarten were more likely to go to college than students with otherwise similar backgrounds. Students who learned more were also less likely to become single parents. As adults, they were more likely to be saving for retirement. Perhaps most striking, they were earning more.

All else equal, they were making about an extra $100 a year at age 27 for every percentile they had moved up the test-score distribution over the course of kindergarten. A student who went from average to the 60th percentile — a typical jump for a 5-year-old with a good teacher — could expect to make about $1,000 more a year at age 27 than a student who remained at the average. Over time, the effect seems to grow, too.

The economists don’t pretend to know the exact causes. But it’s not hard to come up with plausible guesses. Good early education can impart skills that last a lifetime — patience, discipline, manners, perseverance. The tests that 5-year-olds take may pick up these skills, even if later multiple-choice tests do not.

Study Rethinks Importance of Kindergarten Teachers - NYTimes.com

.

 

[DaGoose]

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to work hard, be successful, and get rich you want to deprive those who are.


So why is it okay when the left does it?

Then I can assume that you agree with me.

.

 

[Trajan]

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

And like it or not if you "go after the unions" you ARE going after and hurting the workers who make up those unions. So your logic is well....illogical to say the least.

And we'll find out in a few weeks if "WE" do not support public unions or not when this recall takes place.

.

I was laid off in April 2009, why is a teacher in Cali. worth more than I am? think and answer carefully.



you should really be careful using that analogy. Why? because it sux.

MY TAXS pay for other jobs just as yours does, WHY should ANYONE be averse to a bad economy? Because they work in a union only makes it more difficult to let them go...its NOT a justification for their job.

The worth of a good teacher is as valuble as it is incalculable. Good teachers change lives, teach confidence and inspire motivation. It's hard to measure the affect they have on our society.

Students who had learned much more in kindergarten were more likely to go to college than students with otherwise similar backgrounds. Students who learned more were also less likely to become single parents. As adults, they were more likely to be saving for retirement. Perhaps most striking, they were earning more.

All else equal, they were making about an extra $100 a year at age 27 for every percentile they had moved up the test-score distribution over the course of kindergarten. A student who went from average to the 60th percentile — a typical jump for a 5-year-old with a good teacher — could expect to make about $1,000 more a year at age 27 than a student who remained at the average. Over time, the effect seems to grow, too.

The economists don’t pretend to know the exact causes. But it’s not hard to come up with plausible guesses. Good early education can impart skills that last a lifetime — patience, discipline, manners, perseverance. The tests that 5-year-olds take may pick up these skills, even if later multiple-choice tests do not.

Study Rethinks Importance of Kindergarten Teachers - NYTimes.com

.

The worth of a good teacher is as valuble as it is incalculable. Good teachers change lives, teach confidence and inspire motivation. It's hard to measure the affect they have on our society.

this means exactly.....squat.

a) who says the best teachers get let go, b) it matters not, I was the best at what I did and hey, it was not cost effective to keep me, c) cheap emotionalism is not a get of jail free card. that argument is totally bogus.

oh and please answer my question, how many sq ft. is your home, how much acreage if any around it..thx.

 

[daveman]

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to go get a job (public or private) with good pension benefits you want to deprive those who are.

Sooo....since you're not smart or motivated enough to work hard, be successful, and get rich you want to deprive those who are.


So why is it okay when the left does it?

Then I can assume that you agree with me.

.

No, just trying to figure out where your disconnect is.

 

[Big Fitz]

Wonder how long DaGewse will enjoy slamming his fingers in the car door of reality? Something tells me for a long time to come.