Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[daveman]

Your best interests are to cut taxes on the bloated rich and destroy medicare....Cons IQ 97, libs 107.

When I want your opinion, I'll call. You go wait by the phone.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

stfu, azzhole

Actually, Dems care about policy and helping each other, and cons wany money and hate, cause they're ignorant. You're welcome.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

"Strong, and wrong"=Cons....and good night

 

[DaGoose]

No one is slamming teachers. We are trashing the public worker unions.
When are you people going to realize this is not personal. It's taxpayers trying to figure out why their tax bills continue to rise with every revaluation yet their services are not improving. As a matter of fact, the frustration level with public services is rising. It has come to a head. People are just pissed off with having to fork over more money to public worker unions so their members can get raises, inexpensive health insurance and nice pensions while taxpayers wages stagnate and their home values depreciate. Folks are now thinking it is unjust to have public servants do better than the people they serve.
Government keeps demanding tax increases and refuses to acknowledge the concept of fiscal responsibility.

Most private sector employees get nothing. They have to invest in 401k's or IRA's....At their expense.
Public employees get defined pensions paid by the taxpayers. So not only are those in the private sector taking care of theirs, they take care of the public employees as well. See where we are going here.
Public employee unions have created this "us vs them" system.

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

90% of private employers no longer or will in the near future not offer pensions.
Public employee wages and benefits are way out of line with the private sector. That is the point of this movement to rein in their unions.
Yes, throughout history, those who sought to peel back the layers of the proverbial onion were always looked upon as troublemakers by those who wanted to keep the status quo.
Ya know what? Every so often the old apple cart needs to be turned over so we can put in new fruit.
What Wisconsin recall? The one you people keep wishing for?
So a few thousand union thugs don't like the way things went so now they want a do over. Ok....And you people have the fucking nerve to bitch about how the will of the people is usurped.

Actually if I'm reading this right it's closer to 36%.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

And we'll find out if "the will of the people is usurped" after the recall is over, right?

.

 

[DaGoose]

No one is slamming teachers. We are trashing the public worker unions.
When are you people going to realize this is not personal. It's taxpayers trying to figure out why their tax bills continue to rise with every revaluation yet their services are not improving. As a matter of fact, the frustration level with public services is rising. It has come to a head. People are just pissed off with having to fork over more money to public worker unions so their members can get raises, inexpensive health insurance and nice pensions while taxpayers wages stagnate and their home values depreciate. Folks are now thinking it is unjust to have public servants do better than the people they serve.
Government keeps demanding tax increases and refuses to acknowledge the concept of fiscal responsibility.

Most private sector employees get nothing. They have to invest in 401k's or IRA's....At their expense.
Public employees get defined pensions paid by the taxpayers. So not only are those in the private sector taking care of theirs, they take care of the public employees as well. See where we are going here.
Public employee unions have created this "us vs them" system.

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

Once again, no one is slamming the workers. It is the unions we are going after.
Stop whining.

Who do you think makes up the unions?

.

 

[DaGoose]

you know, I asked him what he paid for a mortgage or rent, after he said what his wife made etc etc. pre goal post movement, he of course never answered because, he cannot figure out it appears that 53K in his area may be like 90K here....Or he has and knows hes screwed if he tells me its say 1000 a mo.

And I answered. My house is paid off.

.

that is not an answer.

What's so hard to figure out? My house is paid for and I don't rent. What exactly do you want from me?

.

 

[DaGoose]

No one is slamming teachers. We are trashing the public worker unions.
When are you people going to realize this is not personal. It's taxpayers trying to figure out why their tax bills continue to rise with every revaluation yet their services are not improving. As a matter of fact, the frustration level with public services is rising. It has come to a head. People are just pissed off with having to fork over more money to public worker unions so their members can get raises, inexpensive health insurance and nice pensions while taxpayers wages stagnate and their home values depreciate. Folks are now thinking it is unjust to have public servants do better than the people they serve.


Government keeps demanding tax increases and refuses to acknowledge the concept of fiscal responsibility.

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans. I know that most industries are moving toward 401k plans (I have both a good 401k and defined benefit). So public union employees are not out of line getting them and would be foolish to turn them down, if offered.

Instead of slamming the public union employees why not go after the ones who put them in place? I mean, wouldn't YOU take advantage of one if it was offered? If not then you'd be stupid and if so how can you slam them?

And, IMO, the people creating this "us versus them" mentality are rabble rousing GOP politicians. Most people don't give a shit. But don't take my word for it. I think a good measuring stick will be to see how the Wisconsin recall plays out.

.

Most major employers around here (CAT, Coal Mines, Power Plants, etc.) and I suspect nationwide still have defined benefit plans

Links please...and he and I said pension so don't even try that. Links please.


and I am still waiting for the insults I cast at teachers.

What the hell have we been talking about? Again, most major employers around here offer DEFINED BENEFIT PENSION PLANS.

I get one already, my current company offers one one, my dad gets one from CAT, my cousin gets one from CAT, another cousin who works at CAT will be getting one, my neighbor who just retired from the coal mine is getting one.

And, if I'm reading this right, more than 1/3 of corporations still offer them.

According to the wealth management firm SEI’s Pension Lifecycle Meter released this month, only 36 percent of corporate defined benefit pension plans are active or open to new hires, while the remaining 64 percent are closed to new entrants (31 percent), frozen (30 percent), or terminating (3 percent).

Do we offer a pension? Are you kidding me? | BenefitsPro

As to your teacher insults I looked back and you did not personally insult teachers unless calling them overpaid and not deserving of their wages (which you obviously feel or we wouldn't be having this discussion) an insult. My bad. But it's also easy to do when I'm trying to educate up to four people at one time.

.

 

[DaGoose]

I did tease the 25% death benefit out of him, UC gives that too. my wife will if she survives me get 25% of my monthly pension pay till she dies....what a sweet heart deal huh? and I just now ( or that is our union) have started to pay.......wait for it....

2% to our defined pension plan...unreal. ( we also got a 4.5% raise every year for the next 5 years too, fucking highway robbery of the state, period).

So? I get a defined benefit pension too. She's paid into it and deserves it. What's your point?

.

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

Stick a fork in it Da goose is done. Move on to next topic.

Oh no, I can fight ignorance for a long, long time.

.

You left out the "with"...as in "fight with ignorance".

You sure told me Daveman. Yep, you sure did. I can't begin to compete with witty comebacks like that!!

.

 

[DaGoose]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

 

[EriktheRed]

But here’s the thing: The collective bargaining ban, in and of itself, was not responsible for achieving these savings and this surplus. As the Appleton Post Crescent reports, the teachers union had already offered up financial concessions that would have produced almost identical savings and an almost identical surplus.

What’s more, the use of this one district to declare Walker’s policies a success is almost comical in its cherry-picking. There are 424 school districts in Wisconsin, and as the AP recently noted, Walker’s policies mean draconian budget cuts to 410 of them, with labor officials and school districts predicting increased class sizes and layoffs.

Scott Walker's bogus `mission accomplished' moment - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

 

[Big Fitz]

I did tease the 25% death benefit out of him, UC gives that too. my wife will if she survives me get 25% of my monthly pension pay till she dies....what a sweet heart deal huh? and I just now ( or that is our union) have started to pay.......wait for it....

2% to our defined pension plan...unreal. ( we also got a 4.5% raise every year for the next 5 years too, fucking highway robbery of the state, period).

So? I get a defined benefit pension too. She's paid into it and deserves it. What's your point?

.

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

He's been carefully avoiding the government DEFINED LIFETIME BENEFITS too trying to muddy the water by saying things about defined benefits instead.

A lifetime benefit is something like 50-80% of pay till the day you die then a percentage to the survivor. The private industry may or may not offer such a plan but they NEVER offer it for no contributions by the employee!

But he continues to try and muddy the waters and run away thinking nobody remembers what he's been advocating.

 

[DaGoose]

So? I get a defined benefit pension too. She's paid into it and deserves it. What's your point?

.

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

He's been carefully avoiding the government DEFINED LIFETIME BENEFITS too trying to muddy the water by saying things about defined benefits instead.

A lifetime benefit is something like 50-80% of pay till the day you die then a percentage to the survivor. The private industry may or may not offer such a plan but they NEVER offer it for no contributions by the employee!

But he continues to try and muddy the waters and run away thinking nobody remembers what he's been advocating.

For crying out loud!! Is THAT what's you've harping about all this time?

Yes, she get DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS for which she pays a contribution (not sure how much she contributes). She gets $28K a year for life along with a single medical plan that will cost her around $350 per month. THAT'S her pension and medical. And I don't mind telling you this since her salary is posted every year in the local newspaper.

And MY DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS are quite a bit higher than hers.

Again....so what?

.

 

[daveman]

stfu, azzhole

No.

Actually, Dems care about policy and helping each other, and cons wany money and hate, cause they're ignorant. You're welcome.

Did you know that many people use stereotypes instead of actual thought?

 

[daveman]

So? I get a defined benefit pension too. She's paid into it and deserves it. What's your point?

.

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

Oh no, I can fight ignorance for a long, long time.

.

You left out the "with"...as in "fight with ignorance".

You sure told me Daveman. Yep, you sure did. I can't begin to compete with witty comebacks like that!!

.

Tissue?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Well, what do you know..

KAUKAUNA — As changes to collective bargaining powers for public workers take effect today, the Kaukauna Area School District is poised to swing from a projected $400,000 budget shortfall next year to a $1.5 million surplus due to health care and retirement savings.

The Kaukauna School Board approved changes Monday to its employee handbook that require staff to cover 12.6 percent of their health insurance and to contribute 5.8 percent of their wages to the state’s pension system, in accordance with the new collective bargaining law, commonly known as Act 10.

Kaukauna Area School District projects $1.5 million surplus after contract changes to health care, retirement savings | Appleton Post Crescent | postcrescent.com

This is how it should be for all PUBLIC sector unions, ie unions whos employees are paid through tax revenue.

However, private sector unions, should not have to fall under this type of law (which they dont in this specific state)

 

[daveman]

Well, what do you know..

KAUKAUNA — As changes to collective bargaining powers for public workers take effect today, the Kaukauna Area School District is poised to swing from a projected $400,000 budget shortfall next year to a $1.5 million surplus due to health care and retirement savings.

The Kaukauna School Board approved changes Monday to its employee handbook that require staff to cover 12.6 percent of their health insurance and to contribute 5.8 percent of their wages to the state’s pension system, in accordance with the new collective bargaining law, commonly known as Act 10.

Kaukauna Area School District projects $1.5 million surplus after contract changes to health care, retirement savings | Appleton Post Crescent | postcrescent.com

This is how it should be for all PUBLIC sector unions, ie unions whos employees are paid through tax revenue.

However, private sector unions, should not have to fall under this type of law (which they dont in this specific state)

I have been assured by people in this thread that the story you quoted is a terrible tragedy.

 

[Big Fitz]

you act as if you have not been here posting today, check the posts in the last 3 pages, I asked you a question on defend pension value.

He's been carefully avoiding the government DEFINED LIFETIME BENEFITS too trying to muddy the water by saying things about defined benefits instead.

A lifetime benefit is something like 50-80% of pay till the day you die then a percentage to the survivor. The private industry may or may not offer such a plan but they NEVER offer it for no contributions by the employee!

But he continues to try and muddy the waters and run away thinking nobody remembers what he's been advocating.

For crying out loud!! Is THAT what's you've harping about all this time?

Yes, she get DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS for which she pays a contribution (not sure how much she contributes). She gets $28K a year for life along with a single medical plan that will cost her around $350 per month. THAT'S her pension and medical. And I don't mind telling you this since her salary is posted every year in the local newspaper.

And MY DEFINED LIFETIME PENSION BENEFITS are quite a bit higher than hers.

Again....so what?

.

you're required to pay in a percentage to your DLB package, aren't you?

 

[DaGoose]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

Your failures to answer the questions above is very telling. Either you guys have no clue how much you pay or it's an insignificant amount.

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Now.....my turn to ask a question.

Seriously (and without looking)...Do any of you know exactly how much you personally pay into public employee pension funds? I mean the way you all squawk it must be an ungodly amount of money.

I'd be very interested in knowing..........

1) what state you live in (even though it can vary widely from area to area) and,

2) How much public employee pensions cost YOU in dollars per year

3) How much the county portion of your property tax bill is.

.

Your failures to answer the questions above is very telling. Either you guys have no clue how much you pay or it's an insignificant amount.

.

Whatever we're paying, we owe even more.....


Today, the unfunded pension liability in Illinois is much greater than the pension funds' assets, and has ballooned to a staggering $77.8 billion.

"That means every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois is on the hook for $6,031 in pension promises that we don't have the assets for," says Lawrence Msall, president of The Civic Federation, a Chicago-based group that keeps tabs on state and local government finances.

Shortfall Threatens Illinois Pension System : NPR

 

[Trajan]

And I answered. My house is paid off.

.

that is not an answer.

What's so hard to figure out? My house is paid for and I don't rent. What exactly do you want from me?

.

what was the amount. this is what I have asked you, twice.