Will You Make It?

[Diuretic]

No, just that many won't be able to buy a new one until they can write a check for it.

No need to buy a new computer, unless you're a hard core gamer then I suppose it matters. I'm not so I'm not fussed. You can buy a second hand computer and monitor. For an operating system you can use a Linux distro (many of them are absolutely free) and you can download thousands of applications which are free. You can use OpenOffice instead of a propriety office suite and it's free. And so on.

Frugal is a word that it might be good to get aquainted with. I'm talking generally Zoomie not to you, just referencing your post.

 

[Gunny]

If you are unable to borrow any money for the next ten years? Will you be okay?

As it is now, probably.

Question is, will it be "as it is?" You think there will even be a middle class in 10 years? The government is buying up personal, individual debt. There's only one way it's going to get paid off and obviously it won't be by those who incurred the debt.

 

[editec]

Our entire economic system is founded on credit.

If the banks just suddenly stop lending money, our economy and most nations will collapse into the dustbin of history.

Your portfolios, your 401Ks, your retirement checks would be worthless.

The cash you have on hand would rapidly become worthless, too.

At first, you wouldn't buy anything because nobody will have anything to sell, except the detrius left over from the previous civilization.

Your houses, assuming you weren't thrown out of them for nonpayment of your mortgages while the whole thing was falling apart, would become dark, cold, tombs.

Many of us would get that laisse fair capitalism we believed we wanted, and I doubt any of us will think it a real good thing.

After the anarchy, (and there would be anarchy, believe me) we would go back though the development of civilization in stages.

First we'd have tribes, followed by tribal warlord states, probably followed by some kind of monarchy based systems, advancing into primative feudal states, -- and who knows? -- maybe something like democracy might happen, too... in a few places.

Eventually one of those feudal states would reinvent some kind currency, likely one based on gold, silver an copper, just as was done 4,000 years ago.

Assuming there were enough people left, more complex civilizations will reinvent themselves over time.

Since we'd be reinventing civilization, but this time with advanced knowledge about science and technology, what forms it might take as it finds the affluence to advance into more complex societies, is pretty much anyone's guess.

My guess is paper money might be a damned hard sell, next time around, though.

On the bright side, land would be cheap enough, because most of mankind would be dead.

Another hap...hap-hap-hap-hap-hap-happy thoughts post from Mr. Sunshine, eh?

 

[jillian]

You are. If you are borrowing for a car, TV, boat, etc.... because it is the only way you can get it, YOU ARE LIVING BEYOND YOUR MEANS.

For over 200 years most Americans paid cash for EVERYTHING, other than their homes, and even back before WWII most Americans paid cash for a house. I fail to see where living on cash is a bad thing......

And for millions of Americans that is going to be how they are going to be forced to live the rest of their lives....WITHIN their means. No cash, no car, no TV, no computer, no anything.....And that is a GOOD thing for this country.

If you borrow for a car, you're living beyond your means??? We lease one of our cars and pay off the other. Most people can't reach into their pockets and take out that kind of lump sum. If you make a reasonable assessment of what you can AFFORD TO PAY PER MONTH, and deal with that number conservatively, then you AREN'T living beyond your means.

Pssssssssst... people who can reach into their pockets to pay for a new car in cash aren't middle class.

 

[WillowTree]

As it is now, probably.

Question is, will it be "as it is?" You think there will even be a middle class in 10 years? The government is buying up personal, individual debt. There's only one way it's going to get paid off and obviously it won't be by those who incurred the debt.

I know, I know, those of us who have managed to live without a line of credit and in homes we could afford are paying the bill for the high end beer budget idiots.

 

[WillowTree]

If you borrow for a car, you're living beyond your means??? We lease one of our cars and pay off the other. Most people can't reach into their pockets and take out that kind of lump sum. If you make a reasonable assessment of what you can AFFORD TO PAY PER MONTH, and deal with that number conservatively, then you AREN'T living beyond your means.

Pssssssssst... people who can reach into their pockets to pay for a new car in cash aren't middle class.

not entirely true, Lots of people save money and pay cash for their cars. I have been known to drive a car for 15 years. I can save a lot of money in fifteen years. Money I'm not making those car payments with. Some of us don't make big money and we save a little money which accumulates.

 

[editec]

I know, I know, those of us who have managed to live without a line of credit and in homes we could afford are paying the bill for the high end beer budget idiots.

No you're not.

You're paying the bill for a system which was based on a lie to begin with.

Blaming the victims who are simply slightly worse off than you are going to become is stupid to the extreme.

the poor didn't control the system, the RICH did.

They broke it, not the poor.

those defaulting mortgages are the smallest part of the problem, you know?

No?

Well, you know it now.

 

[WillowTree]

No you're not.

You're paying the bill for a system which was based on a lie to begin with.

Blaming the victims who are simply slightly worse off than you are going to become is stupid to the extreme.

the poor didn't control the system, the RICH did.

They broke it, not the poor.

those faulter mortgages are the smallest part of the problem, you know?

No?

Well you know it now.

The people who lived way beyond their means on credit they could not pay are victims??? You have got to be kidding me.. Just have to be kidding me. You must be a DUmmie!

 

[Care4all]

If you are unable to borrow any money for the next ten years? Will you be okay?

Demand for China's widgets will dry up, prices will have to go down, in order to sell the supply....we all would probably be for the better if we weren't buying so much from them....

If we don't borrow or just print this money for the bailout, then the dollar will have MORE purchasing power, if they bailout and borrow the money to do it, then the DOLLAR DEVALUES....

we get hurt more by the dollar devaluation in my opinion....

BTW it is NOT the THREAT of us who no longer would be able to get credit, (which is a damn lie in the first place)....

IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT deficit spending/borrowing that they are concerned with....BET my bottom dollar, this is ALL a rush for them, to spend and borrow more from the saudi's and chinese.... IF THERE REALLY IS A CRISIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

care

 

[jillian]

not entirely true, Lots of people save money and pay cash for their cars. I have been known to drive a car for 15 years. I can save a lot of money in fifteen years. Money I'm not making those car payments with. Some of us don't make big money and we save a little money which accumulates.

That's fair enough, of course. I just don't think that's what Zoomie was referring to. Having read his posts, I'm figuring it was one of his "I'm rich, screw the rest" comments.

Could be wrong.

 

[WillowTree]

Demand for China's widgets will dry up, prices will have to go down, in order to sell the supply....we all would probably be for the better if we weren't buying so much from them....

If we don't borrow or just print this money for the bailout, then the dollar will have MORE purchasing power, if they bailout and borrow the money to do it, then the DOLLAR DEVALUES....

we get hurt more by the dollar devaluation in my opinion....

BTW it is NOT the THREAT of us who no longer would be able to get credit, (which is a damn lie in the first place)....

IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT deficit spending/borrowing that they are concerned with....BET my bottom dollar, this is ALL a rush for them, to spend and borrow more from the saudi's and chinese.... IF THERE REALLY IS A CRISIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

care

You know one of Obamalama's big campaign promises and Pelosi is/was working on another stimulus package. More borrowed money from China so we can go shopping to buy shit from China.

 

[Care4all]

You know one of Obamalama's big campaign promises and Pelosi is/was working on another stimulus package. More borrowed money from China so we can go shopping to buy shit from China.

i bet ya that gets nixed after this bail out....!

Though i disagree with you that this money would all go to the widgets from the Chinese, my bet is that the stimulus, at least from us up here in the Northeast, would be used to pay the saudis for our heating oil....

 

[WillowTree]

i bet ya that gets nixed after this bail out....!

Though i disagree with you that this money would all go to the widgets from the Chinese, my bet is that the stimulus, at least from us up here in the Northeast, would be used to pay the saudis for our heating oil....

true that, I spent my last one on a trip to Charleston!

 

[Care4all]

not entirely true, Lots of people save money and pay cash for their cars. I have been known to drive a car for 15 years. I can save a lot of money in fifteen years. Money I'm not making those car payments with. Some of us don't make big money and we save a little money which accumulates.

paid cash for our newer car, a tiny little Hyundai that gets 34 miles to the gallon, our 2nd car is over 10 years old and i use it locally to go to the grocer or doctor etc...

the beginning of us actually saving money, was when we made the decision that we would not get a new car every 5-7 years...our second car before this last one, we used for 16 years and even then when we traded it in, they gave us $400 for it!!!! lol....we thought that was a real deal!!!!

I will say, if i were not a stay at home spouce now, I would want to have a car that was decent instead of the 10 year old one and we probably would have to take out a car loan for that car....

part of the sacrafice of driving an old car... for the PERK of not having to go to work every day and be a homemaker is well worth it to me....and my husband, because he actually gets good cooked meals every day now!!!! hahahahahaha!

care

 

[HoleInTheVoid]

Your lucky, I live in a state that will probably be declining for another 5 years if not more. Your guess is as good as mine as to where lending limits will be in the future but with all the bad publicity on lending policies I cant see them keeping them the same, but who knows. Also it will get much harder to get mortgage insurance as they are taking it up the rear just as much as anyone else. This is just my opinion

I left So FL because it was impossible to support a family on a single income. Real estate prices were absurd. I'm sure you're quite aware being from FL but any on-lookers should know a crappy 2-1 apartment in a crappy side of town where gun ownership is all but mandated could set you back $1600/month.

I moved to CO and rented a 4-2 SFR for $1000/month that would have cost me $2500/month back in FL. The house I own (damn, it feels good to say that) is a 5-2 split level I'm sure would cost around $350k in FL.

 

[editec]

The people who lived way beyond their means on credit they could not pay are victims??? You have got to be kidding me.. Just have to be kidding me. You must be a DUmmie!

Why were they living "beyond their means"?

Because increasingly more and more Americans find themselves working harder, but not making a living.

Meanwhile the masterclass got richer and richer and richer and notwits like you think they deserved all that wealth.

Where do you think that wealth CAME from?

It came from the diminishing pays of the working classes that you now accuse of being spendthrifts who caused the system they don't control to crash.

 

[WillowTree]

Why were they living "beyond their means"?

Because increasingly more and more Americans find themselves working harder, but not making a living.

Meanwhile the masterclass got richer and richer and richer and notwits like you think they deserved all that wealth.

Where do you think that wealth CAME from?

It came from the diminishing pays of the working classes that you now accuse of being spendthrifts who caused the system they don't control to crash.

so you think expensive cars, homes, tennis shoes and vacations you cannot afford but buy anyway is making a living??? 5.00 lattees three or four times a day,, you make me laugh right out loud..

 

[Care4all]

borrowing for transportation and a home over your head and a college education, are the ONLY 3 things Suzie Orman recommends borrowing for, in ones personal life....

of course, when i was a young whipper snapper, everything went on a credit card....my computers, tvs, clothes, vacations etc....but we never charged beyond our means....

Finally, through cutting back and penny pinching and owning each car for 10 years minimum, we have nothing on our credit cards and we pay cash for what we buy now....but, admittingly, we already had bought on credit all that we now own....furniture, computers, tv's....i do believe those just beginning will need some credit to move forward in life.

i have no plans to buy anything on credit, but knowing that i could if i needed to, in an emergency is important to me also.

 

[plt42]

Living beyond ones means can't be blamed on anyone except the person doing so. If you can be enticed into debt that you can't possibly afford, then you're just plain stupid.

I have about a $175k credit line via "plastic". I keep it alive by making a credit purchase for a "need" then pay it off. A good credit rating is a necessary part of "doing business" but knowing when to say "Thanks but no thanks" is priceless.

It's not governments responsibility to make sure I don't over spend.

 

[jillian]

I left So FL because it was impossible to support a family on a single income. Real estate prices were absurd. I'm sure you're quite aware being from FL but any on-lookers should know a crappy 2-1 apartment in a crappy side of town where gun ownership is all but mandated could set you back $1600/month.

I moved to CO and rented a 4-2 SFR for $1000/month that would have cost me $2500/month back in FL. The house I own (damn, it feels good to say that) is a 5-2 split level I'm sure would cost around $350k in FL.

You think anyone can just pick up and leave? My husband's job is portable... mine isn't. And I certainly wouldn't force my son to readjust to a new school after he just got settled in to middle school. Plus, our families are here.

You think people don't have roots?