Why Would Holocaust Deniers Lie.

[Esmeralda]

"Why Would Holocaust Deniers Lie?"

It's very simple. As long as they can deny the Holocaust, they can sustain their anti-Semitism without any sense of guilt, and they can stand up belligerently to anyone who challenges their anti-Semitism by bringing up the persecution of Jews. Denying the Holocaust makes little, mean spirited bigots feel good about themselves and strong in their hatred of Jews.

Very, very simple.

 

[Esmeralda]

BTY its against German law to deny it in public. a big fine and 5 years in the gray bar motel

Imagine that, can't debate the death of Jews in WWII , just non debatable. Thank Goodness I live in the USA and everything is debatable. When they tell you just believe, makes you wonder why. It has been so programed into people, most do not question it. Who in the heck cares, how many Germans died.

You are a sick little shit.

 

[Picaro]

Constantine established a church run by the state. Those that then came after Constantine were cookie cutter statists..

Constantine didn't care about running the church; he just wanted peace after the recent civil wars. Like I said, the books that went into the Bible weren't something he had a hand in and weren't completely compiled until after his death. Repeating the same erroneous statements you did earlier, doesn't change the facts.

Yes. He admired how the Christians had set up their social services and how well organized they were and supportive of each other, and given the pagans' failures to copy their organization he decided to put them in charge of the Imperial social services.

It's ridiculous to believe that Christians would suddenly jump up and cave in and let some Emperor dictate their theology to them after enduring centuries of persecution from all sides without caving to anybody, especially after having recently endured the worst persecutions yet from Diocletian and his successors in the Tetrarchy following his death.

Even Galerius, Maxentius, and Lucinius, supporting the demands of the official state pagan cult leaders gave up trying to eradicate them and saw the writing on the wall, especially after the politics in Persia re Armenia came to the fore with the establishment of Armenia as the first Christian kingdom. The so-called 'purges' were a matter of ending a civil war and removing Constantina's political enemies in the government, not some Christian witch hunt

 

[freemind]

irosie91,
Any drinkenness probably has more to do with culture than it does to genetics. Also, you know that I hate Jews right down to their core. But I have to hand it to the Jew doctor or student doctor who recently who tried to stop a negroid from abducting a drunk White woman off the street. Though obviously, he probably didn't think he would get shot. He was lucky to have lived. But with all the racemixing and multiethnic bullshit the Jews try to sell to the American public, if he had been murdered, it would have been poetic justice.

for the record-----alcoholism is associated with a genetic disposition-----one of theissues is the activity of the liver enzyme group ---the Alcohol dehydrogenases---
it is also associated with the incidence of endogenous depression----another condition with a genetic predisposition

What you say in this instance could be true. But consider this. You say that Italians aren't as alcoholic. But aren't they more prone to drink wine than those from northern Europe? Even giving it to their kids, (Though from what I have heard, they sometimes water it down) That sounds kind of alcoholic to me. Also, I heard an apparent expert say once that even if you only drank once a year, as long as you felt you NEEDED to drink that one time, you were an alcoholic. Maybe they were right and maybe they were wrong. But that's what I heard.

your post indicates that you are an idiot. A to the "experts" you "Hear" try to ignore those mutterings at the methadone clinic

Are you saying that those newspaper articles are made up? Are you that far gone? Who in the hell would want to do that. I know I wouldn't. When coming up with things that paint the jews in a bad light, the last thing you need to do is make stuff up.

what "newspaper articles"?? you are using another Josef Goebbels
technique------utterly baseless innuendo. I am not surprised --he also
shoved cyanide down the throats of his five toddlers for the glory of your
'god' ADOLF

Oh. So now the newspaper articles are real. They are now supposedly just innuendo. Boy are you an idiot. Next, I think it was Gobbels wife who did it. Given the choice of killing her children or seeing them grow up as a slave of the Jews, I think she made the right decision.

 

[freemind]

Also, Germany's problems WERE caused by the Jews. There is nothing "pseudo" about it.

...and your evidence for this allegation is what exactly?

My evidence is what is happening here and now. Read this thread. It is somewhere on this forum. If you disagree with anything in it, find the thread and leave a reply in it. If I see it, I will answer it.

 

[freemind]

The point is that the goal of the Nazis was to expel the Jews. Not exterminate them.

Up to 1939, maybe. But then after invading Poland, France, Belgium the Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia and later the Soviet Union, the nazis suddenly found themselves hving to deal with the bulk of Europe's Jewish population. Epic fail on the expulsion front, don't you think? So if you can't expel them....let's go have chat about it...I know a nice villa near Wannsee...

And how were they supposedly killed. I have no doubt that some were. But most likely not as many as the Jews or the Allied victors would like people to think. And it is absolutely certain that they weren't gassed. So where does that leave your brainwashed ideas.

Oh dear, you only have to look at what happened in the former Yugosalvia, Omarska for example, to see well documented cases of how easy it is to kill people in a concentration camp, and the Serbs really weren't trying that hard compared to the Nazis.

Personally I don't care about numbers, as Stalin famously said, "The death of one man is a tragedy; the deaths of millions is a statistic." Quibbling over numbers, isn't the point.

The point is that Nazi Germany deliberately and systematically set out to segregate and then eradicate/exterminate an entire group of human beings based on their religion or just because they were perceived to be "different" according to racist pseudoscience.

I don't know who may have died in any yugoslav or serbian "death camps." But if it was happening to muslims, who cares. I sure as hell don't. Also, Germany's problems WERE caused by the Jews. There is nothing "pseudo" about it. Just as there is nothing "pseudo" about what they're doing to this country. Also, I don't know for sure if it is true, because I wasn't there. But after WW I, parts of Germany became part of Poland. Before Germany invaded Poland, I have heard it said that ethnic Germans in Poland were being slaughtered. Most likely by Polish Jews with the Polish government turning a blind eye. So Germany HAD to invade.

Let's say that this didn't happen and war hadn't broke out. (That is, until Russia invaded the west) What do you think would have happened, more supposed "eradication/extermination" of the Jews or more deportations.

After WW1 Poland was reconstituted in almost all it's original form from the defunct Austro-Hungarian, Gwerman and Russian Empire. There's nothing in mainstream history regarding any killings of ethnic Germans before September 1939, where's your evidence for this allegation?

Had war not broken out, it is quite possible that all Jewish Germans would have been expelled from Hitler's Germany and that would have been an end to the matter. The extermination option was arrived at once the "drang nach osten" resulted in the acquisition of territories containing large Jewish populations which could not be easily expelled. The Nazis lust for lebensraum merely created more problems for themselves and they arrived at the solution that most suited their collective temprament.

Parts of Germany before WW I were in what became Poland after WW I. That is where the German victims lived. Also, history is written by the victors. That is going to make the fact that Germany was provoked into attacking Poland hard to find. But it is out there. You want proof? Watch the documentary, "Adolf Hitler: The greatest story NEVER told." I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened. Next, after war broke out, it was nearly impossible to expel Jews. So they put them into Jewish internment camps. It was the hardships of war that caused problems for them from there. I will include something for you to read. Maybe it will help.

 

[freemind]

Constantine established a church run by the state. Those that then came after Constantine were cookie cutter statists..

Constantine didn't care about running the church; he just wanted peace after the recent civil wars. Like I said, the books that went into the Bible weren't something he had a hand in and weren't completely compiled until after his death. Repeating the same erroneous statements you did earlier, doesn't change the facts.

Yes. He admired how the Christians had set up their social services and how well organized they were and supportive of each other, and given the pagans' failures to copy their organization he decided to put them in charge of the Imperial social services.

It's ridiculous to believe that Christians would suddenly jump up and cave in and let some Emperor dictate their theology to them after enduring centuries of persecution from all sides without caving to anybody, especially after having recently endured the worst persecutions yet from Diocletian and his successors in the Tetrarchy following his death.

Even Galerius, Maxentius, and Lucinius, supporting the demands of the official state pagan cult leaders gave up trying to eradicate them and saw the writing on the wall, especially after the politics in Persia re Armenia came to the fore with the establishment of Armenia as the first Christian kingdom. The so-called 'purges' were a matter of ending a civil war and removing Constantina's political enemies in the government, not some Christian witch hunt

Don't forget that a large reason for the sucess of Christianity was due to the slaughter of non-Christians.

 

[freemind]

"Why Would Holocaust Deniers Lie?"

It's very simple. As long as they can deny the Holocaust, they can sustain their anti-Semitism without any sense of guilt, and they can stand up belligerently to anyone who challenges their anti-Semitism by bringing up the persecution of Jews. Denying the Holocaust makes little, mean spirited bigots feel good about themselves and strong in their hatred of Jews.

Very, very simple.

Did you even read the thread? It lists reason why people would lie about a real holocaust and reasons why people would lie about a largely fake holocaust. If you want to debate any of those reasons, let's hear it. I couldn't care less about your brainwashed ideas.

 

[Esmeralda]

"Why Would Holocaust Deniers Lie?"

It's very simple. As long as they can deny the Holocaust, they can sustain their anti-Semitism without any sense of guilt, and they can stand up belligerently to anyone who challenges their anti-Semitism by bringing up the persecution of Jews. Denying the Holocaust makes little, mean spirited bigots feel good about themselves and strong in their hatred of Jews.

Very, very simple.

Did you even read the thread? It lists reason why people would lie about a real holocaust and reasons why people would lie about a largely fake holocaust. If you want to debate any of those reasons, let's hear it. I couldn't care less about your brainwashed ideas.

So, 'freemind', you are not interested in hearing anything you don't want to hear. The reason people deny the Holocaust is because they are, like Hitler, anti-Semites. Period. End of story. Any other so-called reasons are justifications, based on either overt or hidden anti-Semitism

 

[Challenger]

Also, history is written by the victors.

Nice sound bite but completely fallacious. To an academic, history is a synthesis of opposing views of events, broadly speaking, "there's your side, there's my side anf there's the truth". History is revised with every new generation of historians. Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened.

No you haven't you've offered opinion and cherry picked pseudo-science, and the mere fact that you apparently have, "better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things.." demonstrates that you have no genuine evidence to offer.

Oh, just a thought, if all these people were not gassed/shot/exterminated, what happened to them?

 

[Picaro]

Don't forget that a large reason for the sucess of Christianity was due to the slaughter of non-Christians.

What we shouldn't forget is that their success had nothing to do with slaughter of non-Christians, it had to do with their dedication to their beliefs and social organization, and the persecutions of them just created more martyrs and waves of admiring converts, making them a significant minority by the time Constantine felt abandoned by the pagan gods and went with the Christians over his political enemies.

 

[freemind]

"Why Would Holocaust Deniers Lie?"

It's very simple. As long as they can deny the Holocaust, they can sustain their anti-Semitism without any sense of guilt, and they can stand up belligerently to anyone who challenges their anti-Semitism by bringing up the persecution of Jews. Denying the Holocaust makes little, mean spirited bigots feel good about themselves and strong in their hatred of Jews.

Very, very simple.

Did you even read the thread? It lists reason why people would lie about a real holocaust and reasons why people would lie about a largely fake holocaust. If you want to debate any of those reasons, let's hear it. I couldn't care less about your brainwashed ideas.

So, 'freemind', you are not interested in hearing anything you don't want to hear. The reason people deny the Holocaust is because they are, like Hitler, anti-Semites. Period. End of story. Any other so-called reasons are justifications, based on either overt or hidden anti-Semitism

I'm not interested in debating over your clueless bullshit. Anti-semitism isn't the point. Reality is the point. And the reality is that 6 million Jews didn't die in the holocaust. Though I was watching one of those bullshit history shows about WW II once where some of the things they talked about probably wasn't bullshit. They talked to Jews who after the war sought revenge against the Germans. They managed to poison some bread that was to be given to ex-SS soldiers who were being held prisoner of ex-war. But I don't think very many of them died.

These Jewish revenge seekers also had a plan to poison the water supply of some German cities. They wanted to murder 6 million Germans. But with anywhere from 271,000 to 600,000 (not 6 million) Jews having died in the holocaust, that would have been a major crime. For some reason, the Jewish revenge seekers didn't go through with their plan. But every one of the filthy Jewish scum they interviewed were sorry that they didn't go through with the plan. How does it feel to support mass murdering scum.

Also, basically the founder of communism, Marx, was Jewish. Lennin was part Jewish. Trotsky was Jewish. Most of the Bolshevik leaders were Jewish. They were responsible for something like 30 million Russians meeting untimely deaths. In all, I have heard the deaths that Russian communists were responsible for at 80 to 100 million people. You can take your fictional "6 million" figure and shove it up your ass. Look at what a Russian Nobel Laureate had to say about it.

 

[freemind]

Also, history is written by the victors.

Nice sound bite but completely fallacious. To an academic, history is a synthesis of opposing views of events, broadly speaking, "there's your side, there's my side anf there's the truth". History is revised with every new generation of historians. Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened.

No you haven't you've offered opinion and cherry picked pseudo-science, and the mere fact that you apparently have, "better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things.." demonstrates that you have no genuine evidence to offer.

Oh, just a thought, if all these people were not gassed/shot/exterminated, what happened to them?

What in the hell makes you think that the pages I posted were bullshit. Oh, I forgot, Your deluded mind that has been brainwashed beyond all recognition. As to "radical crackpot theories," did you not read the thread I posted called "Jewish Warfare"? Find the original thread. Leave a reply. I will find it. In it, you can tell me anything in the thread that you think is untrue. Are you afraid? Are you a chiken? Bauk Bauk Bauk! (Chicken sounds) Go for it.

Next, didn't I show you a picture of an old plaque that used to be at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 4 million Jews died there. And the picture to the right that shows the new plaque that is there that says 1.5 million jews died there? That isn't psuedoscience. It is reality. And the Poles would never have changed the numbers if they didn't have the evidence to back it up. Even though I think the 1.5 million figure is still way too high.

Next, before we begin to talk about what happened to the Jews, we first need to iron out how many died. There are Red cross documents that say that 271,000 died. There are more thoroughly researched findings that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) How many Jews do you think died.

 

[freemind]

Don't forget that a large reason for the sucess of Christianity was due to the slaughter of non-Christians.

What we shouldn't forget is that their success had nothing to do with slaughter of non-Christians, it had to do with their dedication to their beliefs and social organization, and the persecutions of them just created more martyrs and waves of admiring converts, making them a significant minority by the time Constantine felt abandoned by the pagan gods and went with the Christians over his political enemies.

There were persecutions of pagans going on before the fall of the Roman empire. I couldn't find out how many European pagans died at the hands of Christians. But no doubt the numbers were well into the hundreds of thousands. The choice for many was simple, either be Christian or be dead. Also, I heard a story about a Russian king. I don't remember who it was. He wanted to infect his subject with a certain religion. His choice was either Christianity or islam. But this king liked to drink. Which islam was against. So he chose Christianity. It was no doubt death or the threat of death that was largely behind making those people accept Christainity.

 

[jillian]

\

Keep in mind that history is written by the victors. Consider the power the U.S. government and the jews have to see that their version of history prevails. Compare to that to the power of the few who seek the truth for the truth's sake. Holocaust deniers vs holocaust promoters. Holocaust promoters have much more reason to lie.

scum...

 

[freemind]

\

Keep in mind that history is written by the victors. Consider the power the U.S. government and the jews have to see that their version of history prevails. Compare to that to the power of the few who seek the truth for the truth's sake. Holocaust deniers vs holocaust promoters. Holocaust promoters have much more reason to lie.

scum...

Are insults the best you can do? If you want to challenge anything I said, then speak it. Otherwise, blow it out your ass

 

[Challenger]

Also, history is written by the victors.

Nice sound bite but completely fallacious. To an academic, history is a synthesis of opposing views of events, broadly speaking, "there's your side, there's my side anf there's the truth". History is revised with every new generation of historians. Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened.

No you haven't you've offered opinion and cherry picked pseudo-science, and the mere fact that you apparently have, "better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things.." demonstrates that you have no genuine evidence to offer.

Oh, just a thought, if all these people were not gassed/shot/exterminated, what happened to them?

What in the hell makes you think that the pages I posted were bullshit. Oh, I forgot, Your deluded mind that has been brainwashed beyond all recognition. As to "radical crackpot theories," did you not read the thread I posted called "Jewish Warfare"? Find the original thread. Leave a reply. I will find it. In it, you can tell me anything in the thread that you think is untrue. Are you afraid? Are you a chiken? Bauk Bauk Bauk! (Chicken sounds) Go for it.

Next, didn't I show you a picture of an old plaque that used to be at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 4 million Jews died there. And the picture to the right that shows the new plaque that is there that says 1.5 million jews died there? That isn't psuedoscience. It is reality. And the Poles would never have changed the numbers if they didn't have the evidence to back it up. Even though I think the 1.5 million figure is still way too high.

Next, before we begin to talk about what happened to the Jews, we first need to iron out how many died. There are Red cross documents that say that 271,000 died. There are more thoroughly researched findings that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) How many Jews do you think died.

I'll say it again incase you missed it the first three times,

Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

 

[freemind]

Also, history is written by the victors.

Nice sound bite but completely fallacious. To an academic, history is a synthesis of opposing views of events, broadly speaking, "there's your side, there's my side anf there's the truth". History is revised with every new generation of historians. Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened.

No you haven't you've offered opinion and cherry picked pseudo-science, and the mere fact that you apparently have, "better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things.." demonstrates that you have no genuine evidence to offer.

Oh, just a thought, if all these people were not gassed/shot/exterminated, what happened to them?

What in the hell makes you think that the pages I posted were bullshit. Oh, I forgot, Your deluded mind that has been brainwashed beyond all recognition. As to "radical crackpot theories," did you not read the thread I posted called "Jewish Warfare"? Find the original thread. Leave a reply. I will find it. In it, you can tell me anything in the thread that you think is untrue. Are you afraid? Are you a chiken? Bauk Bauk Bauk! (Chicken sounds) Go for it.

Next, didn't I show you a picture of an old plaque that used to be at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 4 million Jews died there. And the picture to the right that shows the new plaque that is there that says 1.5 million jews died there? That isn't psuedoscience. It is reality. And the Poles would never have changed the numbers if they didn't have the evidence to back it up. Even though I think the 1.5 million figure is still way too high.

Next, before we begin to talk about what happened to the Jews, we first need to iron out how many died. There are Red cross documents that say that 271,000 died. There are more thoroughly researched findings that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) How many Jews do you think died.

I'll say it again incase you missed it the first three times,

Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

Is that the best you can do. Make shit up? I never said anything to challenge tha fact that the Nazis tried to get rid of the Jews. Did I not mention to you something before about "The Haavara Agreement"? As to the extermination thing, why are you avoiding my question. HOW MANY JEWS DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST. Answer it!

As to racial crackpot theories, the U.S. is a large country with a lot of natural resources and arable land. Then consider these stastics.
U.S. population, 319 million. Yearly value of exports, 1 trillion, 612 billion.
Japan population, 127 million. Yearly value of exports 792 billion.
German population, 81.89 million. Yearly value of exports, 1 trillion, 492 billion.

The U.S. also has more drug users than any other country. We also have 4% of the worlds population, but 25% of those in jail. These aren't crackpot theories. They are reality. Read the threads, "Jewish Warfare." And the thread, "Is the White species superior?" If you can disagree with what they say, then you are the crackpot. But feel free to debate me about anything they have to say.

 

[irosie91]

Also, history is written by the victors.

Nice sound bite but completely fallacious. To an academic, history is a synthesis of opposing views of events, broadly speaking, "there's your side, there's my side anf there's the truth". History is revised with every new generation of historians. Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

I have already given sufficient proof that the holocaust was largely a hoax. I have better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things that happened.

No you haven't you've offered opinion and cherry picked pseudo-science, and the mere fact that you apparently have, "better things to do than dig up evidence for an infinity of things.." demonstrates that you have no genuine evidence to offer.

Oh, just a thought, if all these people were not gassed/shot/exterminated, what happened to them?

What in the hell makes you think that the pages I posted were bullshit. Oh, I forgot, Your deluded mind that has been brainwashed beyond all recognition. As to "radical crackpot theories," did you not read the thread I posted called "Jewish Warfare"? Find the original thread. Leave a reply. I will find it. In it, you can tell me anything in the thread that you think is untrue. Are you afraid? Are you a chiken? Bauk Bauk Bauk! (Chicken sounds) Go for it.

Next, didn't I show you a picture of an old plaque that used to be at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 4 million Jews died there. And the picture to the right that shows the new plaque that is there that says 1.5 million jews died there? That isn't psuedoscience. It is reality. And the Poles would never have changed the numbers if they didn't have the evidence to back it up. Even though I think the 1.5 million figure is still way too high.

Next, before we begin to talk about what happened to the Jews, we first need to iron out how many died. There are Red cross documents that say that 271,000 died. There are more thoroughly researched findings that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) How many Jews do you think died.

I'll say it again incase you missed it the first three times,

Nothing you have said refutes the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.

Is that the best you can do. Make shit up? I never said anything to challenge tha fact that the Nazis tried to get rid of the Jews. Did I not mention to you something before about "The Haavara Agreement"? As to the extermination thing, why are you avoiding my question. HOW MANY JEWS DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST. Answer it!

As to racial crackpot theories, the U.S. is a large country with a lot of natural resources and arable land. Then consider these stastics.
U.S. population, 319 million. Yearly value of exports, 1 trillion, 612 billion.
Japan population, 127 million. Yearly value of exports 792 billion.
German population, 81.89 million. Yearly value of exports, 1 trillion, 492 billion.

The U.S. also has more drug users than any other country. We also have 4% of the worlds population, but 25% of those in jail. These aren't crackpot theories. They are reality. Read the threads, "Jewish Warfare." And the thread, "Is the White species superior?" If you can disagree with what they say, then you are the crackpot. But feel free to debate me about anything they have to say.

your post makes no sense------How would I know the precise number of people your kith and kin murdered? I do not even know exactly how many people scum like you murder in drunken rage

 

[Challenger]

As to the extermination thing, why are you avoiding my question. HOW MANY JEWS DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST. Answer it!

The question is irrelevant, but the answer is, "no one knows for sure"; they're still finding mass grave sites in Eastern Europe

Pipeline workers find mass grave of Jews killed by Nazis

Quibbling over exact numbers is a pointless exercise, and still doesn't alter the fact that the Nazis set out to systematically expel then exterminate an entire group of people based on crackpot racial theories of white European "supremacy" and the fact that they followed a different religion.