Why Trickle-Down just doesn't work, and the deficit is so huge...

[Murf76]

Tax breaks are not theft. That is the most absurd thing ever. Keeping your own money, assuming you made it through legit realms, and calling it siphoning is hilarious.

but really, you might want to tie that up, your envy is showing there.

I'm sorry, I must be missing something, please show me where I said it was "theft".

The point of this thread was to show that trickle-down economics doesn't work, because the rich take their savings and put it in hidden overseas accounts instead of re-investing it.

Which invalidates the entire point of capital gains tax breaks and higher bracket tax breaks as economic stimuli.

Hmmmmm.... whatever could it be that's causing people to take their money overseas and not re-invest it here???

See... conservatives have been telling libs FOR YEARS that onerous taxation and regulation causes people to move their money offshore and not invest it. And we're constantly told that it's just not so, that nobody's going to run from Obama's policies, because he's just talking about a little bit more from the very tippy-top 1% or so. And after all, his disastrous regulatory policies are just "common sense" initiatives. But you know what that loud sucking sound is? ...That's Frenchmen leaving France.

And yet we've been assured repeatedly by the left that nothing Barack Obama has done or proposed would take us back to the tax-sheltering of the Jimmy Carter years, since Obama is just talking about a small raise in taxes that won't hardly affect anyone. But here you are... telling us something different. Hmmmmm....

 

[Vast LWC]

Hmmmmm.... whatever could it be that's causing people to take their money overseas and not re-invest it here???

See... conservatives have been telling libs FOR YEARS that onerous taxation and regulation causes people to move their money offshore and not invest it. And we're constantly told that it's just not so, that nobody's going to run from Obama's policies, because he's just talking about a little bit more from the very tippy-top 1% or so. And after all, his disastrous regulatory policies are just "common sense" initiatives. But you know what that loud sucking sound is? ...That's Frenchmen leaving France.

And yet we've been assured repeatedly by the left that nothing Barack Obama has done or proposed would take us back to the tax-sheltering of the Jimmy Carter years, since Obama is just talking about a small raise in taxes that won't hardly affect anyone. But here you are... telling us something different. Hmmmmm....

Tax rates on the rich, and on corporations have been getting progressively lower and lower for DECADES.

And the lower they get, the more tax loopholes and overseas accounts are found.

I imagine if you lowered all their taxes to ZERO it wouldn't be a problem anymore...

Of course, then we would also have no country anymore either.

It's called tax evasion, and it's a bunch of bullshit, but it's legal, because the uber-rich currently control the world governments, and thus get to create one set of rules for themselves, and another set of rules for everyone else.

And it seems to me, that if the uber-rich are going to hide all their money anyway, then there's no sense keeping their tax rates low in the first place.

At least with a higher upper-bracket tax rate and a higher capital gains rate, we can tax whatever they're forced to actually claim.

 

[Wiseacre]

Money flows to where it gets the best return, away from where it gets taxed the most. It took you guys this long to figure that out? I've been trying to tell you guys about this since forever, that's why you don't want to raise taxes when the economy sucks.

 

[Murf76]

Hmmmmm.... whatever could it be that's causing people to take their money overseas and not re-invest it here???

See... conservatives have been telling libs FOR YEARS that onerous taxation and regulation causes people to move their money offshore and not invest it. And we're constantly told that it's just not so, that nobody's going to run from Obama's policies, because he's just talking about a little bit more from the very tippy-top 1% or so. And after all, his disastrous regulatory policies are just "common sense" initiatives. But you know what that loud sucking sound is? ...That's Frenchmen leaving France.

And yet we've been assured repeatedly by the left that nothing Barack Obama has done or proposed would take us back to the tax-sheltering of the Jimmy Carter years, since Obama is just talking about a small raise in taxes that won't hardly affect anyone. But here you are... telling us something different. Hmmmmm....

Tax rates on the rich, and on corporations have been getting progressively lower and lower for DECADES.

And the lower they get, the more tax loopholes and overseas accounts are found.

I imagine if you lowered all their taxes to ZERO it wouldn't be a problem anymore...

Of course, then we would also have no country anymore either.

It's called tax evasion, and it's a bunch of bullshit, but it's legal, because the uber-rich currently control the world governments, and thus get to create one set of rules for themselves, and another set of rules for everyone else.

And it seems to me, that if the uber-rich are going to hide all their money anyway, then there's no sense keeping their tax rates low in the first place.

At least with a higher upper-bracket tax rate and a higher capital gains rate we can tax whatever they're forced to actually claim.

Keep them low and simplify the system. The same with regulatory law; make it in the smallest increments that will result in the common sense protection of citizens.

Bear in mind, that revenues have tripled since 1965 (and that's in adjusted dollars), but spending has more than quintupled. And also that you could Eat the Rich and not pay for more than a year of current spending.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Spending is the reason we are in trouble.

Until the Clowns in DC figure that out we will continue to be in trouble.

Don't hold your breath.

I totally agree. If eliminating a large deficit could be accomplished simply by raising taxes on corporations and the rich, California would be running on a surplus. To give more tax revenue to the Federal Government can be equated to supplying more alcohol to a thirsty addict. All this accomplishes, is to give more reason to the Government to spend even more than what it can't already afford.

 

[Charles_Main]

Seems that as soon as the rich get the money, they send it overseas.

Wealth doesn't trickle down

The world's super-rich have taken advantage of lax tax rules to siphon off at least $21 trillion, and possibly as much as $32tn, from their home countries and hide it abroad – a sum larger than the entire American economy.

James Henry, a former chief economist at consultancy McKinsey and an expert on tax havens, has conducted groundbreaking new research for the Tax Justice Network campaign group – sifting through data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and private sector analysts to construct an alarming picture that shows capital flooding out of countries across the world and disappearing into the cracks in the financial system...

..."This offshore economy is large enough to have a major impact on estimates of inequality of wealth and income; on estimates of national income and debt ratios; and – most importantly – to have very significant negative impacts on the domestic tax bases of 'source' countries," Henry says.

As soon as they get the money? You show your true Colors, You think the Government gives them money? It's their fucking money, the government just takes less of it.

 

[Charles_Main]

Spending is the reason we are in trouble.

Until the Clowns in DC figure that out we will continue to be in trouble.

Don't hold your breath.

I totally agree. If eliminating a large deficit could be accomplished simply by raising taxes on corporations and the rich, California would be running on a surplus. To give more tax revenue to the Federal Government can be equated to supplying more alcohol to a thirsty addict. All this accomplishes, is to give more reason to the Government to spend even more than what it can't already afford.

The Truth is for all their Talk about Taxing the Rich, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire on the Top Bracket it will raise a whole 42 Billion a year, or roughly enough to fund Obama's Deficit Spending for 10 measly days.

lol

The Rich can not pay for this spending, Nobody can, it's unsustainable.

 

[Vast LWC]

As soon as they get the money? You show your true Colors, You think the Government gives them money? It's their fucking money, the government just takes less of it.

How about this:

Anyone that doesn't want to pay taxes can get the fuck out.

And be permanently banned from doing business in the USA, or with citizens of the USA.

They can go off and start a little commune in South America, and try to sell their products to the Amazon tribesmen.

You don't want to pay for all the infrastructure you use, you can leave. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Let's see how well your business does in Zimbabwe, with no taxpayers paying for education,
and roads,
and airports,
and police,
and military protection.

 

[Vast LWC]

Unpatriotic pieces of crap want to take, take, take as much as they can without giving back.

Well, let's see how the Congolese feel when the usurers set up shop there, and try to charge them 29% interest on their credit cards, after a missed payment or two.

How much would you like to bet that they wind up chopped into pieces with a machete?

 

[Vast LWC]

The Truth is for all their Talk about Taxing the Rich, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire on the Top Bracket it will raise a whole 42 Billion a year, or roughly enough to fund Obama's Deficit Spending for 10 measly days.

lol

The Rich can not pay for this spending, Nobody can, it's unsustainable.

Well, that would be a good point, if the Bush tax cuts didn't also include Capital Gains Tax Rates.

Which will bring in a hell of a lot more revenue than "42 Billion a year".

 

[Murf76]

As soon as they get the money? You show your true Colors, You think the Government gives them money? It's their fucking money, the government just takes less of it.

How about this:

Anyone that doesn't want to pay taxes can get the fuck out.

And be permanently banned from doing business in the USA, or with citizens of the USA.

They can go off and start a little commune in South America, and try to sell their products to the Amazon tribesmen.

You don't want to pay for all the infrastructure you use, you can leave. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Let's see how well your business does in Zimbabwe, with no taxpayers paying for education,
and roads,
and airports,
and police,
and military protection.

Would that be the 48% of American's who don't pay any income tax at all?


Dude, what part of "not enough money" are you not getting? Like I posted earlier, we can "eat the rich" and only have enough to pay for one measly year, leaving nothing for any subsequent year. And we can't go on printing money or we really will see how life is in Zimbabwe.

Taking capital out of the economic system, chasing investors overseas... these are NOT winning strategies to produce growth. You can't save the social safety net unless you're willing to limit it to ONLY the people who really need it. We're on the brink of not even being able to do that. Since 2008, we've been refusing to 'eat our peas'. Instead, we've been passing the plate down the table to the kids. But the kids aren't going to be good for that kind of money because of the whole 'no growth' thingy.

Face it, this administration has been completely irresponsible. There's no budget, no attempt even at reforming our unsustainable entitlements, rather... they've created an even larger one, three times the cost they said it would be. And Obama's attempts at Keynesian stimulus have FAILED. You can't stand on policies which raise taxes and create onerous regulations and also cultivate consumer confidence. Why should even one American, no matter how filthy rich, give another dime until these people do their jobs???

 

[auditor0007]

ok then, lets try trickle up....we'll start with all those that don't pay Federal income taxes..I bet we all get rich quick

I'm really sick of you assholes deriding those who don't pay federal income taxes but not mentioning the fact that the lower income you earn, the higher percentage of income you pay in federal payroll and state taxes. It's fucking laughable that you morons are that stupid. Not once have I heard a con say that it is unfair that the wealthy pay such a low rate at the state level in comparison to the lowest income earners, not once. But you fuckers will harp on the federal income tax like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Sactowndog]

Seems that as soon as the rich get the money, they send it overseas.

Wealth doesn't trickle down

The world's super-rich have taken advantage of lax tax rules to siphon off at least $21 trillion, and possibly as much as $32tn, from their home countries and hide it abroad – a sum larger than the entire American economy.

James Henry, a former chief economist at consultancy McKinsey and an expert on tax havens, has conducted groundbreaking new research for the Tax Justice Network campaign group – sifting through data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and private sector analysts to construct an alarming picture that shows capital flooding out of countries across the world and disappearing into the cracks in the financial system...

..."This offshore economy is large enough to have a major impact on estimates of inequality of wealth and income; on estimates of national income and debt ratios; and – most importantly – to have very significant negative impacts on the domestic tax bases of 'source' countries," Henry says.

It's clear that Obama's FLOOD THE BASEMENT ECONOMIC policy hasn't worked. 878 BILLION taxpayer borrowed and spent and promised to create jobs here ended up being OUTSOURCED to create jobs in China and Finland.
Obama's Stimulus Money Spent Overseas, Jobs in China - ABC News
Obama Administration Gave Half-Billion-Dollar Loan to Al Gore-Connected Electric Car Company Fisker to Build in Finland | TheBlaze.com

"When you don't have a record to run on, you paint your opponent as someone people should run from"--Barack Obama

This is a true statement and why so many are disillusioned with President Obama. However, the Republican plan of eliminating capital gains taxes is no better.

Who thinks eliminating the tax on someone's gains for their Chinese investment will help create jobs in the US. Both are equally stupid and the only to insure neither is passed is to keep Obama as President.

 

[Sactowndog]

ok then, lets try trickle up....we'll start with all those that don't pay Federal income taxes..I bet we all get rich quick

I'm really sick of you assholes deriding those who don't pay federal income taxes but not mentioning the fact that the lower income you earn, the higher percentage of income you pay in federal payroll and state taxes. It's fucking laughable that you morons are that stupid. Not once have I heard a con say that it is unfair that the wealthy pay such a low rate at the state level in comparison to the lowest income earners, not once. But you fuckers will harp on the federal income tax like there is no tomorrow.

Or how about the fact they all pay payroll taxes which is about equal to capital gains taxes. The reality is the poor and the wealthy are all paying near historical lows while the rest of us are paying historically high rates.

 

[SniperFire]

All free market economics is 'trickle down.'

OP idiot fail.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

ok then, lets try trickle up....we'll start with all those that don't pay Federal income taxes..I bet we all get rich quick

I'm really sick of you assholes deriding those who don't pay federal income taxes but not mentioning the fact that the lower income you earn, the higher percentage of income you pay in federal payroll and state taxes. It's fucking laughable that you morons are that stupid. Not once have I heard a con say that it is unfair that the wealthy pay such a low rate at the state level in comparison to the lowest income earners, not once. But you fuckers will harp on the federal income tax like there is no tomorrow.

Only a true idiot would believe that you can lower the deficit by simply raising taxes, without addressing the spending issue. Care to explain how higher taxes helped California's out of control debt? I seriously doubt that you can.

 

[Lakhota]

Republicans are killing America. Then they try to spin reality as they sprinkle their fairy dust.

 

[Stephanie]

again, can someone explain how the hell you trickle up an economy?

seriously,

this is what you'll get from a trickle up economy



and the Socialist/commies/democrat party is just foaming at the mouth trying to sell it to low info voters. because guess who will be YOUR MASTERS once they get it?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Spending is the reason we are in trouble.

Until the Clowns in DC figure that out we will continue to be in trouble.

Don't hold your breath.

Spending is a good part of the reason for the deficit, that is true.

But apparently another part of the equation is tax evasion, on a very large scale.

Except for those record revenues......

 

[Lakhota]

again, can someone explain how the hell you trickle up an economy?

seriously,

this is what you'll get from a trickle up economy



and the Socialist/commies/democrat party is just foaming at the mouth trying to sell it to low info voters. because guess who will be YOUR MASTERS once they get it?

Are you really that dumb?