Why the US will have to negotiate with the Taliban

[Dr.Drock]

After the CIA staged the over throw of the the democratically government in the 1950's.

Then the invasion of the Soviets.

And now the current invasion/occupation by the U.S.

Is it any wonder that Afghanistan has severe economic and social problems.

The only group in the last 50 years that stabilized the country and brought hope to the Afghan people is the Taliban.

Stability? how so? Afghanistan was locked in a civil war in 2001 when we invaded it.

The Taliban controlled 90% of Afghanistan in 2001

The Northern Alliance only controlled the very northern 10% part of the country and was slowly loosing ground to the Taliban.

So you agree with his point that a civil war was ongoing.

 

[High_Gravity]

After the CIA staged the over throw of the the democratically government in the 1950's.

Then the invasion of the Soviets.

And now the current invasion/occupation by the U.S.

Is it any wonder that Afghanistan has severe economic and social problems.

The only group in the last 50 years that stabilized the country and brought hope to the Afghan people is the Taliban.

Stability? how so? Afghanistan was locked in a civil war in 2001 when we invaded it.

The Taliban controlled 90% of Afghanistan in 2001

The Northern Alliance only controlled the very northern 10% part of the country and was slowly loosing ground to the Taliban.

If the Taliban were what all the Afghan people wanted, there should have been no civil war and the Taliban should have gotten the Afghan people on the right track to finally rebuilding their country, we both know thats not what happened.

 

[Lovebears65]

Sharia law is barbaric to women and vews them as second class citizens!

No, it doesn't; but that's the western media spin, so it must be true.

I call bull shit here. I watched all American muslim when the muslim women wanted to marry a christian man. He had to convert. In the talk about it they said if it was a man that wanted to marry a christian women he just could and she did not have to convert and did not have to ask permission or anything . But, a muslim women was NOT ALLOWED to marry anyone but a muslim.. double standards big time.

 

[Sunni Man]

Muslim women are only allowed to marry a Muslim man.

But a Muslim man can also marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

The precedence is that one of Muhammad's was a Christian and another was Jewish.

So we Muslim men follow his example and are allowed to also marry, "People of the Book"; (the Bible), Christian or Jew.


This is not a double standard. Nor does it make women second class citizens.

It is just common sense from an Islamic point of view.

Because children take on the religion of their Father.

The Father must be a Muslim.

 

[Sunni Man]

Just curious. Have you ever seen the film, The Stoning of Soraya M?

No, I don't watch Hollywood torture-porn fantasy movies.

 

[Vel]

Muslim women are only allowed to marry a Muslim man.

But a Muslim man can also marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

The precedence is that one of Muhammad's was a Christian and another was Jewish.

So we Muslim men follow his example and are allowed to also marry, "People of the Book"; (the Bible), Christian or Jew.


This is not a double standard. Nor does it make women second class citizens.

It is just common sense from an Islamic point of view.

Because children take on the religion of their Father.

The Father must be a Muslim.

And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion? How do they opt out? What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule.

9 out of 10 Afghan women fear Taliban's return: Survey - Times Of India

 

[Vel]

Did this girl get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Taliban pounded on the door just before midnight, demanding that Aisha, 18, be punished for running away from her husband's house. They dragged her to a mountain clearing near her village in the southern Afghan province of Uruzgan, ignoring her protests that her in-laws had been abusive, that she had no choice but to escape. Shivering in the cold air and blinded by the flashlights trained on her by her husband's family, she faced her spouse and accuser. Her in-laws treated her like a slave, Aisha pleaded. They beat her. If she hadn't run away, she would have died. Her judge, a local Taliban commander, was unmoved. Later, he would tell Aisha's uncle that she had to be made an example of lest other girls in the village try to do the same thing. The commander gave his verdict, and men moved in to deliver the punishment. Aisha's brother-in-law held her down while her husband pulled out a knife. First he sliced off her ears. Then he started on her nose. Aisha passed out from the pain but awoke soon after, choking on her own blood. The men had left her on the mountainside to die.
This didn't happen 10 years ago, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. It happened last year.


Read more: Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations - TIME
Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations - TIME

 

[Vel]

Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?
*********************************************************

Threats in the Night
For many women, debates over the constitution are an abstract irrelevance. What matters is that mounting insecurity is eroding the few gains they have made. Taliban night letters — chilling missives delivered under the cover of darkness — threaten women in the south of the country, a Taliban stronghold, who dare to work. "We warn you to leave your job as a teacher as soon as possible otherwise we will cut the heads off your children and shall set fire to your daughter," reads one. "We will kill you in such a harsh way that no woman has so far been killed in that manner," says another. Both letters, which were obtained by Human Rights Watch, are printed on paper bearing the crossed swords and Koran insignia of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, the name of the former Taliban government.

Read more: Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations - TIME

 

[editec]

Muslim women are only allowed to marry a Muslim man.

But a Muslim man can also marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

The precedence is that one of Muhammad's was a Christian and another was Jewish.

So we Muslim men follow his example and are allowed to also marry, "People of the Book"; (the Bible), Christian or Jew.


This is not a double standard. Nor does it make women second class citizens.

It is just common sense from an Islamic point of view.

Because children take on the religion of their Father.

The Father must be a Muslim.

It's really ONLY common sense if the FATHER can decide what religion the kids will have.

In many Christian sects its the MOTHER'S religion that decides.

Even you can see the conflict that might come of that, yes?

AS far as many Jews are concerned?

Jewish mother = Jewish Children.

Again, you can see the potential for conflict, right?

 

[Caroljo]

Just curious. Have you ever seen the film, The Stoning of Soraya M?

No, I don't watch Hollywood torture-porn fantasy movies.

Do you read books?
Right now i'm reading "Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell (the only survivor of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan). My son gave me this book and said i had to read it, it made him sick.

I've only gotten a few chapters into it, but he tells about the abuse of the afghan people, mostly women, by the Taliban and how happy the people were for the American's to be there. He goes into quite alot of detail. He tells how the Taliban lied and made people believe they were going to be taken care of and how good everything would be...until they had about 90% of the country under their rule, then the REAL Taliban came out. The people wanted to be more "western"...that's when they made the women stop working, had to cover their heads, no female child could go to school once they turned a certain age....and on and on. Woman have NO say about anything and no rights.

You really believe in this crap? Why do you live here in the US? How can you believe in this stuff, but live where women are free to do what they want? It must drive you absolutely nuts!

 

[JoeB131]

After all these years and the Taliban is still THE major force within Afghanistan. Why is that?

Remember, even inside the old USSR and inside Modern China, still religion has a foothold. The Taliban in Afghanistan is their state church. You can't stomp it out unless you kill everyone.

Many Republicans believe (they believe so many odd and strange things) that the Taliban was part of the WTC Terrorist attack because they wouldn't give up al Qaeda. But we now know in their culture, you can't "turn over" an honored guest once you have accepted them into your home. And remember, al Qaeda fought with the Taliban against Soviet Incursion. They were most certainly "honored guests".

Republicans, even if they cared, don't understand this. Remember, John McCain didn't even know the difference between Sunni and Shiite. Add in the Republicans complete lack of understanding in this country of anyone other than a white conservative and you have a recipe for disaster.

Obama is going to have to cut a deal with the Taliban. There is not a shred of evidence that the Taliban had a hand in 9/11. Considering where all the bombers came from, the US is probably looking in the wrong country.

Hopefully, Obama will be re-elected. We need a president who will get this country out of Afghanistan and you know that no Republican will do that. Republicans see foreign wars as highly profitable ways to make lots of money. And we only lose a few poor kids so it's a "Win-Win". Money to people already rich versus the cost of the lives of a few poor kids. Eliminate abortion laws and they can be replaced easily enough.

We will be stuck there until after the presidential elections because Republicans will never, ever allow peace between the US and the Taliban. They would say Obama is friends with terrorists and that's the proof.

Remember, the generals told us Gitmo was a "recruiting tool" for al Qaeda. Republicans say that if you close Gitmo you will have to release terrorists onto the streets and into backyards as if they never heard of "maximum security prisons" before. So sick of this "willful ignorance".

Republicans know this and fought to keep it open even though it threatens the lives of young patriotic American soldiers. They don't care. It's all about getting the black guy out of the WHITE House. If they can't control the country, they will see it destroyed. Like a dog guarding a pile of hay, their natural instinct is to keep others from using it even when they have no use for it.

Deano-, I'm wondering why you are suddenly apologizing for the Taliban. This is a lot that cuts off women's noses for not being good wives...

The thing is, Obama will give us what we want. We want this to be over. Now, probably Al Qaeda won't go back to Afghanistan because Obama has provided them much more fertile bases in Libya. Nicer climate, and closer to the people they want to kill.

The reality is that the Taliban is an ally of Pakistan. What we really need to do is stop pretending Pakistan is our friend in this. We need to form a military alliance with India. Sell them a couple of our older aircraft carriers. India would be a good counter-weight to Pakistan and Iran.

 

[Sunni Man]

Why is the U.S. so concerned about Iran?

Iran poses no threat to our country.

But for some reason our government feels that we must protect Israel and defend it to the last American.

And if Israel says Iran is a threat. We have to get involved.

Why?

America has nothing to gain; and everything to lose in a war with Iran.

 

[Vel]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

It's easy to say "I support this" on a computer 10,000 miles away.


If he lived there, and it were his teenage daughter having her face cut off because she's scared of her abusive husband, I'm sure Sunni wouldn't agree.

 

[Katzndogz]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

No, those women do not get a say. If you were to ask these women they would champion their culture and their religion knowing that a transgression would get their nose or head cut off. You might THINK they don't want to live under Taliban rule because you wouldn't. It is not up to the world to "rescue" women or change their culture when it is obvious that they don't want it changed. Even the women don't want it changed. Leave them to their barbarity and make sure it stays there.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Sunni I appreciate the rep and thanks but i don't think you understood what I was saying.



I'm saying you should be speaking out against the Taliban for them cutting off the abused teenage girl's face. Because if that were your daughter you'd be against it, so you should have compassion for the girl and her family.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

No, those women do not get a say. If you were to ask these women they would champion their culture and their religion knowing that a transgression would get their nose or head cut off. You might THINK they don't want to live under Taliban rule because you wouldn't. It is not up to the world to "rescue" women or change their culture when it is obvious that they don't want it changed. Even the women don't want it changed. Leave them to their barbarity and make sure it stays there.

I agree we shouldn't do anything about it through our gov't, but that doesn't mean we can't use our voices against it or donate to charities to help these women.

 

[Sunni Man]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

What I support is for people to have their right for self determination.

And not have invaders enforce their culture and values on indigenous people in far away lands regardless of their race, religion, or ethnicity.


If it actually did happen; mutilating another person in this way not Islamic and not part of the religion.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni I appreciate the rep and thanks but i don't think you understood what I was saying.

I'm saying you should be speaking out against the Taliban for them cutting off the abused teenage girl's face. Because if that were your daughter you'd be against it, so you should have compassion for the girl and her family.

No muslim should support this criminal act.

That being said, if the story is true; it was a cultural thing and has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Vel]

Neither Iran nor Israel have anything to do with this thread. We are discussing the Taliban. Since you've taken the position of supporting the Taliban, the questions on the table right now are:
And what about those women that want nothing to do with your religion?
How do they opt out?
What about those women that don't care to live under Taliban rule
Did this girl whose nose and ears the Taliban cut off get a say in the laws that she was forced to live under?
Sunni, is this really what you want to stand for? Is this your religion?

What I support is for people to have their right for self determination.

And not have invaders enforce their culture and values on indigenous people in far away lands regardless of their race, religion, or ethnicity.


If it actually did happen; mutilating another person in this way not Islamic and not part of the religion.

Then how can you support the Taliban since they came in to Afghanistan from Pakistan and enforced their strict interpretation of sharia law on to the people. Prior to the Taliban..prior to the Soviets.. the Afghani people lived completely different types of lives. The women were doctors..shop keepers..allowed to go to school and be full members of their communities. The Taliban forces them to be little more than chattel and slaves. Can you not see that the Taliban are invaders that."enforce their culture and values on indigenous people"?