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☭proletarian☭;2081077 said:Most still are.Do you think that human's were dumb before we were able to read and write?
How can anyone who doesn't demonstrate a basic knowledge of the nation, the language in which its laws are written, and the form of its government be trusted to participate in the government?
I have experience with this, first hand....
My grandparents came here from Italy very late in life to be near their only living child-my mother, I think they were in their 50's and 60's. Neither of them spoke English, so my mother was their interpreter...with everything, for the next 30 years, until they died....she took them to the doctor, the dentist, the grocery stores, the banks and was there to translate....later in life, when my sister and I were older, we helped with interpreting things for them if they needed it.
After 5 years here, they took their citizenship test and they both passed it and became citizens....there were no 2 people on this earth more proud to be American Citizens....
They kept up with the news by reading the daily newspaper delivered to their home, in Italian that kept up with all the politics and government etc, for their community in Brooklyn, NY.
They asked questions of me or my dad or mom or sis....the Baker the Grocer etc who all spoke Italian...to keep themselves informed.
They were MORE INFORMED than I was at 20-29, I can say that much.....
Just because someone does not speak english fluently, does not mean in the least, that they do NOT know what is going on or who to vote for....they probably know better than the average American born here, imho.
Now my grandpa ended up being able to speak broken english, but my grandmother was hopeless.....and she tried and tried and was just the old dog that new tricks could not be taught....this didn't make her any less knowledgeable on what was happening than him.
Did ya hear about the paranoid dyslexic? He thought he was always following someone.lysdexics of the world, untie!
We don't necessarily have to have a literacy test and by all means we don't need even a test of one's understanding of this nation, our government or the challenges facing us either.
But it would be a grand idea, I think, to know that the people voting are at least competent that they know why they're there and what they're doing.
Or does expecting that modest litmus test of presence of mind from my fellow voting citizens make me an elitist?
We won't let very intelligent, very well informed teenagers vote, but we bus retarded people to the polls?
Something ain't right about that.
We don't necessarily have to have a literacy test and by all means we don't need even a test of one's understanding of this nation, our government or the challenges facing us either.
But it would be a grand idea, I think, to know that the people voting are at least competent that they know why they're there and what they're doing.
Or does expecting that modest litmus test of presence of mind from my fellow voting citizens make me an elitist?
We won't let very intelligent, very well informed teenagers vote, but we bus retarded people to the polls?
Something ain't right about that.
A wealthy, well educated person gets to vote for the person who best represents their interests
Shouldn't a retarded person receive the same right?
☭proletarian☭;2081077 said:Most still are.
How can anyone who doesn't demonstrate a basic knowledge of the nation, the language in which its laws are written, and the form of its government be trusted to participate in the government?
I have experience with this, first hand....
My grandparents came here from Italy very late in life to be near their only living child-my mother, I think they were in their 50's and 60's. Neither of them spoke English, so my mother was their interpreter...with everything, for the next 30 years, until they died....she took them to the doctor, the dentist, the grocery stores, the banks and was there to translate....later in life, when my sister and I were older, we helped with interpreting things for them if they needed it.
After 5 years here, they took their citizenship test and they both passed it and became citizens....there were no 2 people on this earth more proud to be American Citizens....
They kept up with the news by reading the daily newspaper delivered to their home, in Italian that kept up with all the politics and government etc, for their community in Brooklyn, NY.
They asked questions of me or my dad or mom or sis....the Baker the Grocer etc who all spoke Italian...to keep themselves informed.
They were MORE INFORMED than I was at 20-29, I can say that much.....
Just because someone does not speak english fluently, does not mean in the least, that they do NOT know what is going on or who to vote for....they probably know better than the average American born here, imho.
Now my grandpa ended up being able to speak broken english, but my grandmother was hopeless.....and she tried and tried and was just the old dog that new tricks could not be taught....this didn't make her any less knowledgeable on what was happening than him.
Congratulations C4A...glad to hear an immigrant story that shows the immigrants made an honest effort to learn english and participate in the American dream. That's all we ask when legal immigrants come to America...I'm sure you are rightly proud of them.
We don't necessarily have to have a literacy test and by all means we don't need even a test of one's understanding of this nation, our government or the challenges facing us either.
But it would be a grand idea, I think, to know that the people voting are at least competent that they know why they're there and what they're doing.
Or does expecting that modest litmus test of presence of mind from my fellow voting citizens make me an elitist?
We won't let very intelligent, very well informed teenagers vote, but we bus retarded people to the polls?
Something ain't right about that.
☭proletarian☭;2081072 said:It's not like anyone is denied an education nowadays. If you can't read/write English, you don't know what form of government the US has, or you can't name the two houses of Congress, why the fuck should your be allowed to vote and fuck this country up more?
Um, plenty of people who can read and write are complete dumbasses, so I fail to see how that would prevent anything
☭proletarian☭;2081072 said:It's not like anyone is denied an education nowadays. If you can't read/write English, you don't know what form of government the US has, or you can't name the two houses of Congress, why the fuck should your be allowed to vote and fuck this country up more?
Um, plenty of people who can read and write are complete dumbasses, so I fail to see how that would prevent anything
lolQED
I have experience with this, first hand....
My grandparents came here from Italy very late in life to be near their only living child-my mother, I think they were in their 50's and 60's. Neither of them spoke English, so my mother was their interpreter...with everything, for the next 30 years, until they died....she took them to the doctor, the dentist, the grocery stores, the banks and was there to translate....later in life, when my sister and I were older, we helped with interpreting things for them if they needed it.
After 5 years here, they took their citizenship test and they both passed it and became citizens....there were no 2 people on this earth more proud to be American Citizens....
They kept up with the news by reading the daily newspaper delivered to their home, in Italian that kept up with all the politics and government etc, for their community in Brooklyn, NY.
They asked questions of me or my dad or mom or sis....the Baker the Grocer etc who all spoke Italian...to keep themselves informed.
They were MORE INFORMED than I was at 20-29, I can say that much.....
Just because someone does not speak english fluently, does not mean in the least, that they do NOT know what is going on or who to vote for....they probably know better than the average American born here, imho.
Now my grandpa ended up being able to speak broken english, but my grandmother was hopeless.....and she tried and tried and was just the old dog that new tricks could not be taught....this didn't make her any less knowledgeable on what was happening than him.
Congratulations C4A...glad to hear an immigrant story that shows the immigrants made an honest effort to learn english and participate in the American dream. That's all we ask when legal immigrants come to America...I'm sure you are rightly proud of them.
The single biggest ethnic group (based on heritage) in the US is German, if I'm not mistaken. And yet, we speak English.
There should be. Just because was lucky enough for their mother to cross the border before dropping it on its head doesn' mean it's competent to decide the future of the nation.There is no citizen test for people born in the USA.
I tell you what. You take the test and I'll let you know if you're qualified to be an American.☭proletarian☭;2082300 said:There should be. Just because was lucky enough for their mother to cross the border before dropping it on its head doesn' mean it's competent to decide the future of the nation.There is no citizen test for people born in the USA.
☭proletarian☭;2082300 said:There should be. Just because was lucky enough for their mother to cross the border before dropping it on its head doesn't mean it's competent to decide the future of the nation.There is no citizen test for people born in the USA.
February 5th, 2010
The opening night speaker at the Tea Party convention suggested a return to a "literacy test" to protect America from presidents like Obama -- a segregation-era method employed by southern US states to keep blacks from voting.
In his speech Thursday to attendees, former Republican congressman Tom Tancredo invoked the loaded pre-civil rights era buzzword, saying that President Barack Obama was elected because "we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote in this country."
Southern states used literacy tests as part of an effort to deny suffrage to African American voters prior to Johnson-era civil rights laws.
Absolutely right on! Why put up more barriers to democracy? Why disenfranchise people based on snobbish, elitist 'principles' designed to alienate one group from another? What's next? A civics test to assure one's vote is according to a given ideology or political philosophy? Making sure only property owners, men and earners get to vote while those who need the democratic process the most.Who's to say what 'basic knowledge of the nation' means?
i see people make pronouncements on this board every day about our government that I know would never be made by anyone who ever actually studied it would make. I see pretend constitutionalists make pronouncements about what our constitution is every day that I know none of them would ever make if they had ever studied constitutional law.
Do I get to judge what 'knowledge' means?
I think not. And THAT isn't what was intended by our form of government.
Or should we just let those in power vote for us since apparently people are too stupid to vote?
If you're a citizen of this country over voting age, you get to vote. Or should we disenfranchise someone who's written english perhaps isn't as good as their conversational english? do we have a literacy requirement? Nope.
I think you'll find if you look at who likes the idea of testing people before they can vote, you aren't looking at 'elitists'. I think you're looking at racism in the first instance, particulary by people who mention 'language' and talk about how blacks score on tests. Those aren't 'elitists' in the sense they're generally referred to (by those same people, btw) on this board.
Anyone who is a citizen by the naturalization process has already taken a basic citizenship test. They probably know more about this country than the people demanding the test and I believe before they take that test, they have to be able to speak English, but I'm not certain of that.
So who are they talking about? Black people. Minorities... people who were born in this country but raised in spanish (or other) speaking communities -- people they think won't pass the test and people they think don't vote like them. And, as you said, seems to be they don't see lower class whites as being excluded. I'm thinking that's pretty funny.
☭proletarian☭;2082300 said:There should be. Just because was lucky enough for their mother to cross the border before dropping it on its head doesn't mean it's competent to decide the future of the nation.There is no citizen test for people born in the USA.
As if "literate" people can't be misguided???
Tea Party opening speaker suggests law that kept blacks be kept from voting be reinstated | Raw StoryFebruary 5th, 2010
The opening night speaker at the Tea Party convention suggested a return to a "literacy test" to protect America from presidents like Obama -- a segregation-era method employed by southern US states to keep blacks from voting.
In his speech Thursday to attendees, former Republican congressman Tom Tancredo invoked the loaded pre-civil rights era buzzword, saying that President Barack Obama was elected because "we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote in this country."
Southern states used literacy tests as part of an effort to deny suffrage to African American voters prior to Johnson-era civil rights laws.
☭proletarian☭;2081072 said:It's not like anyone is denied an education nowadays. If you can't read/write English, you don't know what form of government the US has, or you can't name the two houses of Congress, why the fuck should your be allowed to vote and fuck this country up more?
☭proletarian☭;2082372 said:☭proletarian☭;2082300 said:There should be. Just because was lucky enough for their mother to cross the border before dropping it on its head doesn't mean it's competent to decide the future of the nation.
As if "literate" people can't be misguided???
Tea Party opening speaker suggests law that kept blacks be kept from voting be reinstated | Raw StoryFebruary 5th, 2010
The opening night speaker at the Tea Party convention suggested a return to a "literacy test" to protect America from presidents like Obama -- a segregation-era method employed by southern US states to keep blacks from voting.
In his speech Thursday to attendees, former Republican congressman Tom Tancredo invoked the loaded pre-civil rights era buzzword, saying that President Barack Obama was elected because "we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote in this country."
Southern states used literacy tests as part of an effort to deny suffrage to African American voters prior to Johnson-era civil rights laws.
Are you claiming that Blacks aren't allowed in school today? Or that they're too stupid and would necessarily fail any test?
