Why should an independent vote Trump?

[justoffal]

Is there any real reason I should vote trump? According to trump he is not doing well. He made fun of Obama for never hitting an annual gdp greater than 3%, but now trump is in the same boat. He said it was bad when Obama ruled by executive order, but now he does the same thing. He said Obamas low unemployment rate wasn't really low because it's all about the labor force participation rate which has remained low under trump. Republicans told me huge deficits were bad, and now trump has them over a trillion dollars. The country is as divided as ever so clearly he isn't bringing us together. On top of all this he is the least presidential president I have ever seen. Has he done anything an independent would vote for?

You have one vote right?

Jo

 

[Correll]

The massive unfunded entitlements that are part of every First World social program network and pension systems.


Tried to find a link. Lots of pay walls and it all seems to be just about the US, despite the key words I used, so, if you want to read up on it, you might have better web fu than I.

So you didn’t base your claim on facts?

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

Who are you specifically referring to?

 

[justoffal]

The massive unfunded entitlements that are part of every First World social program network and pension systems.


Tried to find a link. Lots of pay walls and it all seems to be just about the US, despite the key words I used, so, if you want to read up on it, you might have better web fu than I.

So you didn’t base your claim on facts?

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

First of all you're probably completely full of shit. It's the typical victim by vicarious means ploy.... It's a really boring approach.
If Trump shit gold and pissed cancer cure
he would still be a bad orange man to you.
So if you want to be taken seriously at least reveal who you are honestly.

Trump's presence has been a miracle for the the most important part of the American economy ..... the corporate money machine.
I don't like capitalism anymore than you do but today it's the only system that even comes close to supporting itself. Trump's actions have pushed the market close to 30,000 flushing untold wealth and potential into the economy. The large debt numbers you're fretting about cannot be handled in a single term or even in several terms and must be made larger before they can be made smaller. This is exactly how to do it by revving up the money making machine to the point where it flushes prosperity out into the various levels of society. The construct of what follows is as of yet undefined... Because it will be the first time we've ever seen it.

Jo

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

 

[Brain357]

So you didn’t base your claim on facts?

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

First of all you're probably completely full of shit. It's the typical victim by vicarious means ploy.... It's a really boring approach.
If Trump shit gold and pissed cancer cure
he would still be a bad orange man to you.
So if you want to be taken seriously at least reveal who you are honestly.

Trump's presence has been a miracle for the the most important part of the American economy ..... the corporate money machine.
I don't like capitalism anymore than you do but today it's the only system that even comes close to supporting itself. Trump's actions have pushed the market close to 30,000 flushing untold wealth and potential into the economy. The large debt numbers you're fretting about cannot be handled in a single term or even in several terms and must be made larger before they can be made smaller. This is exactly how to do it by revving up the money making machine to the point where it flushes prosperity out into the various levels of society. The construct of what follows is as of yet undefined... Because it will be the first time we've ever seen it.

Jo

yeah gdp growth is weak. His revving is unimpressive. Hasn’t even hit 3% annual growth....

 

[Brain357]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

 

[justoffal]

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

First of all you're probably completely full of shit. It's the typical victim by vicarious means ploy.... It's a really boring approach.
If Trump shit gold and pissed cancer cure
he would still be a bad orange man to you.
So if you want to be taken seriously at least reveal who you are honestly.

Trump's presence has been a miracle for the the most important part of the American economy ..... the corporate money machine.
I don't like capitalism anymore than you do but today it's the only system that even comes close to supporting itself. Trump's actions have pushed the market close to 30,000 flushing untold wealth and potential into the economy. The large debt numbers you're fretting about cannot be handled in a single term or even in several terms and must be made larger before they can be made smaller. This is exactly how to do it by revving up the money making machine to the point where it flushes prosperity out into the various levels of society. The construct of what follows is as of yet undefined... Because it will be the first time we've ever seen it.

Jo

yeah gdp growth is weak. His revving is unimpressive. Hasn’t even hit 3% annual growth....

Not yet....

Bear in mind that the economy is not static but it is dynamic. In 3 short years nearly 5 million dependents have been added to the federal budget that weren't there before.
The goalposts are always moving and many of the spending bills are open ended....they don't start with a zero-sum but are left flexible to account for variations in cost and inflation.

Still though your point is valid and provides a good demonstration as to why numeric
Indicators should probably be avoided when making future promises.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

Yes indeed it seriously damages the social construct that is attempting to infect every level of our government structure. By the end of his 8th year the beast will not completely dead should pretty much be on life support.

Jo

 

[Brain357]

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

First of all you're probably completely full of shit. It's the typical victim by vicarious means ploy.... It's a really boring approach.
If Trump shit gold and pissed cancer cure
he would still be a bad orange man to you.
So if you want to be taken seriously at least reveal who you are honestly.

Trump's presence has been a miracle for the the most important part of the American economy ..... the corporate money machine.
I don't like capitalism anymore than you do but today it's the only system that even comes close to supporting itself. Trump's actions have pushed the market close to 30,000 flushing untold wealth and potential into the economy. The large debt numbers you're fretting about cannot be handled in a single term or even in several terms and must be made larger before they can be made smaller. This is exactly how to do it by revving up the money making machine to the point where it flushes prosperity out into the various levels of society. The construct of what follows is as of yet undefined... Because it will be the first time we've ever seen it.

Jo

yeah gdp growth is weak. His revving is unimpressive. Hasn’t even hit 3% annual growth....

Not yet....

Bear in mind that the economy is not static but it is dynamic. In 3 short years nearly 5 million dependents have been added to the federal budget that weren't there before.
The goalposts are always moving and many of the spending bills are open ended....they don't start with a zero-sum but are left flexible to account for variations in cost and inflation.

Still though your point is valid and provides a good demonstration as to why numeric
Indicators should probably be avoided when making future promises.

Jo

He’s done everything in the republican playbook and growth is still weak. I have no reason to believe it’s going to increase any time soon. We have the tax cuts. He has cut regulations. I don’t think he has the formula for success. Spending is out of control and fed rates are at historic lows.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

Depends on who replaces him

 

[Brain357]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

Depends on who replaces him

It’s possible the replacement is actually decent,

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

Depends on who replaces him

It’s possible the replacement is actually decent,

I said that earlier. Yang would be infinitely better. I'm not sure I would classify the others as "decent," but I wouldn't be overly concerned about them, hence the reason I'd be fine with voting third party again. The exceptions are Sanders and Warren. Replacing Trump with either one of them would be equivalent to cutting of your nose to spite your face. A lot of the criticisms of Trump are way overblown. He has plenty of flaws, but the characterization of this man being the devil incarnate is really becoming absurd.

 

[Brain357]

Why should an independent vote Trump?

Because the alternative could be a lot worse. I'm supporting Andrew Yang because I think he's the best person running for the job and could really bring out the best in the American people, but realistically, I know he's unlikely to get the nomination. In all likelihood, I'll end up voting Libertarian again like I did in 2016, unless the nominee is Bernie Sanders or possibly Elizabeth Warren in which I will vote for Trump this time around. Those two are radical extremists and very dangerous to this country in the long run. There are many things I don't like about Trump, but unfortunately, this is where we are in America. These are the people America keep showcasing to lead our country, so really, this says as much about modern day Americans as it does about Trump, Sanders, Warren, etc. It's a case of pick your poison. I suppose I would rather have the slower death in hopes of a cure before time runs out than a quicker one.

Eh I think 8 years of trump likely does more damage than 4 of trump and 4 of whoever.

Depends on who replaces him

It’s possible the replacement is actually decent,

I said that earlier. Yang would be infinitely better. I'm not sure I would classify the others as "decent," but I wouldn't be overly concerned about them, hence the reason I'd be fine with voting third party again. The exceptions are Sanders and Warren. Replacing Trump with either one of them would be equivalent to cutting of your nose to spite your face. A lot of the criticisms of Trump are way overblown. He has plenty of flaws, but the characterization of this man being the devil incarnate is really becoming absurd.

I don’t disagree, he is certainly better than bush 2. But I think how bad Bernie and Warren are is also exaggerated. Bernie seems to think we should move to be more like the Nordic economic model. That could be good. Warren recognizes we have too many near monopolies, that could also lead to good things. I wouldn’t bet on good from whoever we get next, but it’s possible.

 

[Correll]

Not one First World nation has as sustainable financial budget situation. Blaming Trump for this is like blaming him for the way it gets dark at night.

What do you base that claim on? Link? I’m pretty sure many countries are fine.

The massive unfunded entitlements that are part of every First World social program network and pension systems.


Tried to find a link. Lots of pay walls and it all seems to be just about the US, despite the key words I used, so, if you want to read up on it, you might have better web fu than I.

So you didn’t base your claim on facts?

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

What information do you have on any of them, when it comes to unfunded entitlements?


I just looked some, and it seems the information is just not readily available at all,anymore.


And you missed the point of my post.

 

[Correll]

As far as I have been able to tell, ALL of them, keep the unfunded entitlements off the books.


It is a systemic problem of the modern liberal nation state.

Indeed, the slightly better gdp/debt ration is generally outweighed by more generous pension plans.

It’s not slightly better. They are at 50% or less and we are over 100. You want to become Greece?

First of all you're probably completely full of shit. It's the typical victim by vicarious means ploy.... It's a really boring approach.
If Trump shit gold and pissed cancer cure
he would still be a bad orange man to you.
So if you want to be taken seriously at least reveal who you are honestly.

Trump's presence has been a miracle for the the most important part of the American economy ..... the corporate money machine.
I don't like capitalism anymore than you do but today it's the only system that even comes close to supporting itself. Trump's actions have pushed the market close to 30,000 flushing untold wealth and potential into the economy. The large debt numbers you're fretting about cannot be handled in a single term or even in several terms and must be made larger before they can be made smaller. This is exactly how to do it by revving up the money making machine to the point where it flushes prosperity out into the various levels of society. The construct of what follows is as of yet undefined... Because it will be the first time we've ever seen it.

Jo

yeah gdp growth is weak. His revving is unimpressive. Hasn’t even hit 3% annual growth....

Not yet....

Bear in mind that the economy is not static but it is dynamic. In 3 short years nearly 5 million dependents have been added to the federal budget that weren't there before.
The goalposts are always moving and many of the spending bills are open ended....they don't start with a zero-sum but are left flexible to account for variations in cost and inflation.

Still though your point is valid and provides a good demonstration as to why numeric
Indicators should probably be avoided when making future promises.

Jo

He’s done everything in the republican playbook and growth is still weak. I have no reason to believe it’s going to increase any time soon. We have the tax cuts. He has cut regulations. I don’t think he has the formula for success. Spending is out of control and fed rates are at historic lows.

He took over an aging upswing and kept it going crazy long. Funny you didn't mention that.

 

[Mac1958]

He’s done everything in the republican playbook and growth is still weak.

Actually, he's gone beyond that. He's making Keynes look like Ron freakin' Paul.

And I've had Trumpsters admit it. They're no longer even TRYING to be the "party of fiscal responsibility".

Well, okay, but what we're doing right now is pretty freaking irresponsible, and they were fighting against it just three years ago.
.

 

[JLW]

Anyone who cares for this Country and it’s institutions will not vote for Trump. Trump is like a cancer tumor on this nation. It needs to be excised before it metastasizes. The country needs to send the bum out on his ass and hopefully the Country will come back to its senses.

No more idiotic tweets. No more Stalinist enemy of the people rhetoric. No more inundation of Presidential lies. No more bashing our allies. No more fear and hatred emanating from the Oval Office. No more abuse of the Constitution.

I have faith that Trump will be sent packing by the electorate no matter who the Democratic nominee is.

 

[Mac1958]

Anyone who loves this Country and it’s institutions will not vote for Trump. Trump is like a cancer tumor on this nation. It needs to be excised. The country needs to send the bum out on his ass and hopefully the Country will come back to its senses.

No more idiotic tweets. No more Stalinist enemy of the people rhetoric. No more inundation of Presidential lies, No more bashing our allies. No more dear and hatred emanating from Oval Office. No more abuse of the Constitution.

I have faith that Trump will be sent packing by the electorate no matter who the Democratic nominee is.

But he's a symptom of a much larger problem that needs to be examined and addressed. The problem won't go away by itself when he's gone.
.

 

[wamose]

Anyone who feels they would have a hard time learning to speak Chinese should vote for Trump.

 

[Brain357]

What do you base that claim on? Link? I’m pretty sure many countries are fine.

The massive unfunded entitlements that are part of every First World social program network and pension systems.


Tried to find a link. Lots of pay walls and it all seems to be just about the US, despite the key words I used, so, if you want to read up on it, you might have better web fu than I.

So you didn’t base your claim on facts?

I've read up on it in the past, but am not finding it easy to find data on it, to link for you right now. Too much unrelated shit.

That you would try to characterize that, as "not based on facts" is not reasonable of you.

I can tell you there are many countries in a much better spot. All of Scandinavia for example. Much better gdp/debt ratio. Germany and Switzerland too I believe. I think your claim was very broad and I don’t buy into the idea we can’t do better cause others are bad too.

What information do you have on any of them, when it comes to unfunded entitlements?


I just looked some, and it seems the information is just not readily available at all,anymore.


And you missed the point of my post.

You made a claim and you don't seem to have any info to back it up.