Why Renewables Can’t Save the Planet

Deplorable Yankee

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Published on February 27, 2019
Why Renewables Can’t Save the Planet

written by Michael Shellenberger

Why Renewables Can’t Save the Planet - Quillette
Mod Edit -- Moved link to article from later post to where it belongs..

When I was a boy, my parents would sometimes take my sister and me camping in the desert. A lot of people think deserts are empty, but my parents taught us to see the wildlife all around us, including hawks, eagles, and tortoises.
giphy.gif

After college, I moved to California to work on environmental campaigns. I helped save the state’s last ancient redwood forest and blocked a proposed radioactive waste repository set for the desert.
In 2002, shortly after I turned 30, I decided I wanted to dedicate myself to addressing climate change. I was worried that global warming would end up destroying many of the natural environments that people had worked so hard to protect.

I thought the solutions were pretty straightforward: solar panels on every roof, electric cars in every driveway, etc. The main obstacles, I believed, were political. And so I helped organize a coalition of America’s largest labor unions and environmental groups. Our proposal was for a $300 billion dollar investment in renewables. We would not only prevent climate change but also create millions of new jobs in a fast-growing high-tech sector.

Our efforts paid off in 2007 when then-presidential candidate Barack Obama embraced our vision. Between 2009–15, the U.S. invested $150 billion dollars in renewables and other forms of clean tech. But right away we ran into trouble.

The first was around land use. Electricity from solar roofs costs about twice as much as electricity from solar farms, but solar and wind farms require huge amounts of land. That, along with the fact that solar and wind farms require long new transmissions lines, and are opposed by local communities and conservationists trying to preserve wildlife, particularly birds.

Another challenge was the intermittent nature of solar and wind energies. When the sun stops shining and the wind stops blowing, you have to quickly be able to ramp up another source of energy.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

I used to think that dealing with climate change was going to be expensive. But I could no longer believe this after looking at Germany and France.

Germany’s carbon emissions have been flat since 2009, despite an investment of $580 billion by 2025 in a renewables-heavy electrical grid, a 50 percent rise in electricity cost.

Meanwhile, France produces one-tenth the carbon emissions per unit of electricity as Germany and pays little more than half for its electricity. How? Through nuclear power.

Then, under pressure from Germany, France spent $33 billion on renewables, over the last decade. What was the result? A rise in the carbon intensity of its electricity supply, and higher electricity prices, too.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

What about all the headlines about expensive nuclear and cheap solar and wind? They are largely an illusion resulting from the fact that 70 to 80 percent of the costs of building nuclear plants are up-front, whereas the costs given for solar and wind don’t include the high cost of transmission lines, new dams, or other forms of battery.

Energy-dense nuclear requires far less in the way of materials, and produces far less in the way of waste compared to energy-dilute solar and wind.

A single Coke can’s worth of uranium provides all of the energy that the most gluttonous American or Australian lifestyle requires. At the end of the process, the high-level radioactive waste that nuclear plants produce is the very same Coke can of (used) uranium fuel. The reason nuclear is the best energy from an environmental perspective is because it produces so little waste and none enters the environment as pollution.


France shows that moving from mostly nuclear electricity to a mix of nuclear and renewables results in more carbon emissions, due to using more natural gas, and higher prices, to the unreliability of solar and wind.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

Now that we know that renewables can’t save the planet, are we really going to stand by and let them destroy it?

Michael Shellenberger is a Time Magazine “Hero of the Environment,” and president of Environmental Progress, an independent research and policy organization. Follow him on Twitter @ShellenbergerMD
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I stopped reading at "moved to California".
 
I stopped reading at "moved to California".
Yeah...once you get to california...the crazy starts rubbing off on you and before you know it, you are a full blown moon bat..
 
I thought it was interesting he woke a lil from being woke
and hes not exactly wrong on batteries and storage
. watermelon AGW cultist will excommunicate him from the U.Ns church of gore
Jan_Hus-Council_of_Constance.jpg

Hallowed be gores name
amen
 
i cant seem to edit the original one to add a link

Why Renewables Can’t Save the Planet - Quillette

Mod Edit -- deleted response to "off topic" previous comments.

is it any wonder why they march in the streets with dopey signs for their global warming religion
BACK to the subject at hand
at least this kid woke up and said to himself wait a minute ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Published on February 27, 2019
Why Renewables Can’t Save the Planet

written by Michael Shellenberger

When I was a boy, my parents would sometimes take my sister and me camping in the desert. A lot of people think deserts are empty, but my parents taught us to see the wildlife all around us, including hawks, eagles, and tortoises.
giphy.gif

After college, I moved to California to work on environmental campaigns. I helped save the state’s last ancient redwood forest and blocked a proposed radioactive waste repository set for the desert.
In 2002, shortly after I turned 30, I decided I wanted to dedicate myself to addressing climate change. I was worried that global warming would end up destroying many of the natural environments that people had worked so hard to protect.

I thought the solutions were pretty straightforward: solar panels on every roof, electric cars in every driveway, etc. The main obstacles, I believed, were political. And so I helped organize a coalition of America’s largest labor unions and environmental groups. Our proposal was for a $300 billion dollar investment in renewables. We would not only prevent climate change but also create millions of new jobs in a fast-growing high-tech sector.

Our efforts paid off in 2007 when then-presidential candidate Barack Obama embraced our vision. Between 2009–15, the U.S. invested $150 billion dollars in renewables and other forms of clean tech. But right away we ran into trouble.

The first was around land use. Electricity from solar roofs costs about twice as much as electricity from solar farms, but solar and wind farms require huge amounts of land. That, along with the fact that solar and wind farms require long new transmissions lines, and are opposed by local communities and conservationists trying to preserve wildlife, particularly birds.

Another challenge was the intermittent nature of solar and wind energies. When the sun stops shining and the wind stops blowing, you have to quickly be able to ramp up another source of energy.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

I used to think that dealing with climate change was going to be expensive. But I could no longer believe this after looking at Germany and France.

Germany’s carbon emissions have been flat since 2009, despite an investment of $580 billion by 2025 in a renewables-heavy electrical grid, a 50 percent rise in electricity cost.

Meanwhile, France produces one-tenth the carbon emissions per unit of electricity as Germany and pays little more than half for its electricity. How? Through nuclear power.

Then, under pressure from Germany, France spent $33 billion on renewables, over the last decade. What was the result? A rise in the carbon intensity of its electricity supply, and higher electricity prices, too.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

What about all the headlines about expensive nuclear and cheap solar and wind? They are largely an illusion resulting from the fact that 70 to 80 percent of the costs of building nuclear plants are up-front, whereas the costs given for solar and wind don’t include the high cost of transmission lines, new dams, or other forms of battery.

Energy-dense nuclear requires far less in the way of materials, and produces far less in the way of waste compared to energy-dilute solar and wind.

A single Coke can’s worth of uranium provides all of the energy that the most gluttonous American or Australian lifestyle requires. At the end of the process, the high-level radioactive waste that nuclear plants produce is the very same Coke can of (used) uranium fuel. The reason nuclear is the best energy from an environmental perspective is because it produces so little waste and none enters the environment as pollution.


France shows that moving from mostly nuclear electricity to a mix of nuclear and renewables results in more carbon emissions, due to using more natural gas, and higher prices, to the unreliability of solar and wind.

Mod Edit -- Shortened for copyright...

Now that we know that renewables can’t save the planet, are we really going to stand by and let them destroy it?

Michael Shellenberger is a Time Magazine “Hero of the Environment,” and president of Environmental Progress, an independent research and policy organization. Follow him on Twitter @ShellenbergerMD


It's just too bad it took half a lifetime for a real environmentalist to get the correct picture.. There's so much hype and over-selling of renewables, that the child-like belief that wind and solar ARE ACTUALLY alternatives, --- it's just hard to get thru to them UNLESS -- they figure it out themselves as this person did...

There ARE no real "alternatives" to what we have -- "renewables" are SUPPLEMENTS, not alternatives. And it's pretty clear that GW must NOT BE the biggest threat to the planet if the eco-naut greenies are more afraid of nuclear electricity than they are of GWarming...
 
Are you also going to jump on the bandwagon that says science is not decided by the experts but by the opinions of the uneducated public?
 
Are you also going to jump on the bandwagon that says science is not decided by the experts but by the opinions of the uneducated public?

THere's not a lot of science left to wind power and solar power.. They are MATURE technologies very near their Physics based limits of performance.

That is unless ---- you want to mine Thousands of Tons of ARSENIC to make Gallium Arsenide solar panels like on the Mars Rovers.. That way every panel that is broken or cracked calls out the "toxic materials" response team...

The "science" has TOLD us the alternatives to improving these things. And the trade-offs just do not work out.. So wind and solar NOW are now commodity items. Things that get produced and sold SOLELY ON manufacturing efficiency and price...

So -- get off your "high ass horse" about this being an academic problem.. It's not..
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.
 
If by "what we use now", you include wind, solar, geothermal, hydroelectric and nuclear, then I agree.
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

Indeed....certainly no alternatives to gas and coal that public policy makers want to use. Not even debatable when taking a quick gander at the statistics.:deal:
 
This graphic illustrates that coal use in electricity generation has decreased more than any other fuel source.
electricity-generation-by-major-energy-source.png
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.

If Zambia is totally dark at night anyway -- I guess solar is not a bad deal.. But it's not possible to run an industrialized FIRST world nation on wind/solar. Certainly NOT 80% of that crap without total duplication of DEPENDABLE power generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro) to DUPLICATE that amount of supplements.

And 80% of "US energy" seems to be a claim that includes the transportation sector as well. And that means close to DOUBLING current electrical generation on the grid to power all that.

I doubt ANYONE ANYWHERE ever said the US could be 80% by "renewables" in 30 years as a spokeperson for Dept of Energy.. Maybe a research grant that they PAID for -- but that's not an official statement.

And for the record, all of expertise on powering America DOES NOT reside at the Dept of Energy. It resides within the companies currently keeping the nation warm and lit...
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.

If Zambia is totally dark at night anyway -- I guess solar is not a bad deal.. But it's not possible to run an industrialized FIRST world nation on wind/solar. Certainly NOT 80% of that crap without total duplication of DEPENDABLE power generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro) to DUPLICATE that amount of supplements.

And 80% of "US energy" seems to be a claim that includes the transportation sector as well. And that means close to DOUBLING current electrical generation on the grid to power all that.

I doubt ANYONE ANYWHERE ever said the US could be 80% by "renewables" in 30 years as a spokeperson for Dept of Energy.. Maybe a research grant that they PAID for -- but that's not an official statement.

And for the record, all of expertise on powering America DOES NOT reside at the Dept of Energy. It resides within the companies currently keeping the nation warm and lit...

Ahhh yes. Got it. You know more about the power grid in the US than the combined efforts of the scientists and engineers that create and maintain it.

Quite humorous
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.

If Zambia is totally dark at night anyway -- I guess solar is not a bad deal.. But it's not possible to run an industrialized FIRST world nation on wind/solar. Certainly NOT 80% of that crap without total duplication of DEPENDABLE power generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro) to DUPLICATE that amount of supplements.

And 80% of "US energy" seems to be a claim that includes the transportation sector as well. And that means close to DOUBLING current electrical generation on the grid to power all that.

I doubt ANYONE ANYWHERE ever said the US could be 80% by "renewables" in 30 years as a spokeperson for Dept of Energy.. Maybe a research grant that they PAID for -- but that's not an official statement.

And for the record, all of expertise on powering America DOES NOT reside at the Dept of Energy. It resides within the companies currently keeping the nation warm and lit...

Ahhh yes. Got it. You know more about the power grid in the US than the combined efforts of the scientists and engineers that create and maintain it.

Quite humorous

What's humorous is apparently you know nothing about the subject and want to make shit up without being able to discuss it or back it up...

Where's these links you obviously misunderstood?? Let's go at it.. Don't sit there and cackle like a parrot..
 
I never said it would be easy to do so and, of course, either alternatives or nuclear power are unlikely to be put in place given the ignorance of the human race. But it is physically possible. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I support nuclear power. So Dr Hansen is not saying anything that makes me doubt my conclusions.

There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.

If Zambia is totally dark at night anyway -- I guess solar is not a bad deal.. But it's not possible to run an industrialized FIRST world nation on wind/solar. Certainly NOT 80% of that crap without total duplication of DEPENDABLE power generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro) to DUPLICATE that amount of supplements.

And 80% of "US energy" seems to be a claim that includes the transportation sector as well. And that means close to DOUBLING current electrical generation on the grid to power all that.

I doubt ANYONE ANYWHERE ever said the US could be 80% by "renewables" in 30 years as a spokeperson for Dept of Energy.. Maybe a research grant that they PAID for -- but that's not an official statement.

And for the record, all of expertise on powering America DOES NOT reside at the Dept of Energy. It resides within the companies currently keeping the nation warm and lit...

Ahhh yes. Got it. You know more about the power grid in the US than the combined efforts of the scientists and engineers that create and maintain it.

Quite humorous

What's humorous is apparently you know nothing about the subject and want to make shit up without being able to discuss it or back it up...

Where's these links you obviously misunderstood?? Let's go at it.. Don't sit there and cackle like a parrot..
Renewable Electricity Futures Study | Energy Analysis | NREL

Umm takes 2 seconds to educate yourself and find this. Why are you so intent on remaining ignorant. Like for you if you stick your head in the ground you don't have to admit the sun exists.

And I'll be the first to admit I know less about the US power grid than the US dept of energy. Unlike you who seems with zero sources to know more than them

What's your proof now bucko?
 
There are no real alternatives to what we use now for grid power.. Unless you want black-outs and people dying. Just some supplements.. Of which -- a couple are truly useful and the rest are crap or bigger enviro issues.

That's your opinion...

Now I won't pretend to be more knowledgeable than the scientists and engineers at the US dept of Energy, but they say in 30 years without a single new advancement, over 80% of US energy could be renewable. And that a high renewables scenario can meet electricity demand across the country every hour of every day, year-round.

Not my area of expertise but if someone knows more about the US power grid than the engineers and scientists that run and design it...


And you could turn to where the non renewable sources are the supplements. I mean if countries like Costa Rica, Albania, Ethiopia, Paraguay, and Zambia can test out running renewable only and keep the power grid up for months at a time in their tests, I'm sure the US can too.

I mean in just the past two years two more US States have advanced to where 75% of their power is renewable. It's been proven in other countries to be sustainable.

If Zambia is totally dark at night anyway -- I guess solar is not a bad deal.. But it's not possible to run an industrialized FIRST world nation on wind/solar. Certainly NOT 80% of that crap without total duplication of DEPENDABLE power generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro) to DUPLICATE that amount of supplements.

And 80% of "US energy" seems to be a claim that includes the transportation sector as well. And that means close to DOUBLING current electrical generation on the grid to power all that.

I doubt ANYONE ANYWHERE ever said the US could be 80% by "renewables" in 30 years as a spokeperson for Dept of Energy.. Maybe a research grant that they PAID for -- but that's not an official statement.

And for the record, all of expertise on powering America DOES NOT reside at the Dept of Energy. It resides within the companies currently keeping the nation warm and lit...

Ahhh yes. Got it. You know more about the power grid in the US than the combined efforts of the scientists and engineers that create and maintain it.

Quite humorous

What's humorous is apparently you know nothing about the subject and want to make shit up without being able to discuss it or back it up...

Where's these links you obviously misunderstood?? Let's go at it.. Don't sit there and cackle like a parrot..
Renewable Electricity Futures Study | Energy Analysis | NREL

Umm takes 2 seconds to educate yourself and find this. Why are you so intent on remaining ignorant. Like for you if you stick your head in the ground you don't have to admit the sun exists.

And I'll be the first to admit I know less about the US power grid than the US dept of energy. Unlike you who seems with zero sources to know more than them

What's your proof now bucko?

Wow... You ARE hysterical.. How much of this did you actually READ?? I'm up to pg3 of Volume 3 of this massive wank-off and find this... Did you get that far?

NOTICE This report was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States government. Neither the United States government nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately owned rights. Reference herein to any specific commercial product, process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States government or any agency thereof. The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of the United States government or any agency thereof.

Lemme translate for ya since I procured research grants for my Silicon Valley company for 5 years from these govt agencies.. The Congress appropriated a huge SHITPOT of money for lab coats to talk nice about renewable energy.. And these agency dweebs did exactly what they were told to do...

INCLUDING postulating and masturbating about fielding THOUSANDS OF TONS of toxic battery farms to store and filter the UNRELIABLE, FLAKY performance of wind and solar on the Grid.. Which would be the largest enviro Armaggedon of our history if attempted...

There is NO WAY that wind and solar alone are gonna power a single HOSPITAL 24 hours/7 daysaweek/365 daysayear.. Without a couple ACRES of toxic batteries where the Emergency room used to be...
 

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