Why "Pre-existing conditions" is a phony, blown out of proportion issue.

[Rustic]

Why government health care fails

Show me Trump's "tiny fraction of the cost" replacement.

I'll wait here.

We don’t want any socialize medicine, because it’s a fuck up

 

[sparky]

regulated is NOT socialized

~S~

 

[Rustic]

I remind you again...the reason we have Obamacare in the first place is because the Republicans offered NOTHING.

The reason we STILL have Obamacare is because the Republicans have still offered NOTHING.

You. Have. Been. HOAXED.

Shit, Paul Ryan admitted it shortly after Trump's election. They were all caught with their dicks in their hands.

Stop averting your eyes and admit the emperor is naked.

There is no mandate thankfully as the way you should be no one should be forced him to socialized medicine/Insurance/collective. You progressives need to keep that shit to yourselves and leave the rest of us out of it

 

[Rustic]

I bet all these tards will be able to find is the bill that wasn't even a repeal of Obamacare, much less a replacement.

But let's wait and see.

Socialized medicine should never be forced on anybody

 

[Flash]

regulated is NOT socialized

~S~

BULLSHIT!!!

 

[rightwinger]

If they want to remain in the insurance business, they have to cover everyone who applies

Seems fair

So you're going to try and demand what another person to do, while bearing absolutely no responsibility for the consequences when they do it.

Seems totally fair!

Yes

If you want to be in the health insurance business you should have to cover anyone who applies regardless of sex, age or pre existing conditions

Which will do the same thing barrycare did.
Drive premiums through the roof so only the rich can afford healthcare.

Medicare for all

 

[Rustic]

As I have been asking for many years now, "Repeal Obamacare...AND THEN WHAT?!?!"

I've said many times I am all for repealing Obamacare. I've been calling it a disaster from the get-go.

But where is the GOP replacement?

This always stumps the rubes.

The replacement was a hoax. Will it take another eight and a half years before the rubes finally catch on?

How much higher do health care costs have to go on Trump's watch before you people wake the fuck up that he jerked off in your faces?

What's with this dopey notion that one gubmint shit show needs to replaced with another?

Replace it with nothing, then shitcan Medicare/Medicaid....The State is the problem, not the answer.

Who said we need to replace one government health care plan with another? I'm all for LESS government in health care. I've been saying that at least a hundred times over the past few years.

In fact, in post 84 you can see some very specific ideas I have for doing just that. Ideas I have been proposing since at least 2012.

Perhaps you don't understand fuck-all about how we would get from here to there. Perhaps you don't understand that even to REMOVE government from health care would require legislation.

So...show me the replacement for Obamacare!

I'm STILL waiting.

Socialized medicine is not needed, conservatives are much better off without it

 

[Rustic]

Doesn't that sound good or are you so greedy tht you want the government to steal other people's money to pay your bills?

After you have given up trying to find that Trump "tiny fraction of the cost" legislation, perhaps it would behoove you to read post 84 before you make any more stupid assumptions about me.

All of it.

I am sorry queerboy but I didn't vote for Trump so you can take your mindless stupid TDS afflicted hate and shove it where the sum don't shine.

Government control of health care and welfare is wrong no matter who does it.

You won't won't answer the question that I have asked several times.

Why are you such a greedy little asshoe that you think you are entitled to have somebody else pay your bills simply because you are alive?

How about we just let people die in the gutter!

That’s the conservative plan!

Quit falling down the well
You keep your socialized medicine to yourselves leave the rest of us out of it, it does not require our participation

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If they want to remain in the insurance business, they have to cover everyone who applies

Seems fair

So you're going to try and demand what another person to do, while bearing absolutely no responsibility for the consequences when they do it.

Seems totally fair!

Yes

If you want to be in the health insurance business you should have to cover anyone who applies regardless of sex, age or pre existing conditions

Which will do the same thing barrycare did.
Drive premiums through the roof so only the rich can afford healthcare.

Medicare for all

You'll have to win some elections first.

 

[rightwinger]

And yet, ending Obamacare Medicaid expansion would have cost the gop the senate, which is why more rebelled against that than raised a peep about Kavenaughs assault allegations.

I don't see how one relates to the other, except that keeping the Senate is very important because strict constitutional construction is a major priority for those who love freedom and hate tyranny.

Democrats stand for Truth, Justice and the American Way
They are God’s favorite party

 

[Rustic]

If they want to remain in the insurance business, they have to cover everyone who applies

Seems fair

So you're going to try and demand what another person to do, while bearing absolutely no responsibility for the consequences when they do it.

Seems totally fair!

Yes

If you want to be in the health insurance business you should have to cover anyone who applies regardless of sex, age or pre existing conditions

Which will do the same thing barrycare did.
Drive premiums through the roof so only the rich can afford healthcare.

Medicare for all

No one should be forced into any government socialist entitlement program, You keep that shit to yourselves it does not require our participation

 

[Rustic]

Who said we need to replace one government health care plan with another? I'm all for LESS government in health care. I've been saying that at least a hundred times over the past few years.

In fact, in post 84 you can see some very specific ideas I have for doing just that. Ideas I have been proposing since at least 2012.

Perhaps you don't understand fuck-all about how we would get from here to there. Perhaps you don't understand that even to REMOVE government from health care would require legislation.

So...show me the replacement for Obamacare!

I'm STILL waiting.

How did we get from here to there when the slaves were emancipated?....Did we institute weekends off for slaves, or vouchers so they could "ease into freedom"?

There is no replacement, other than freedom.

It took an amendment to the Constitution. And a war.

So you really don't understand fuck-all.

No wonder you were so easily and thoroughly hoaxed.

Where does an analogy between slavery and HC come from? Did you find some basis for comparison there?

Glad you asked that. One of the foremost experts in healthcare out there, someone who knows their way around the operating room as well as great experience in government gave us these facts.


Ben Carson: Obamacare worst thing ‘since slavery’

So why is Trump preserving Obamacare?

As long as it’s not mandated who gives a fucking shit

 

[Rustic]

The below statement sums up why the issue is phony.

An estimated 27% of adults under age 65 in the U.S. have a pre-existing condition.

And, a 2010 study conducted before enactment of ACA showed that 42% of adults aged 50 to 64 who tried to buy insurance in individual insurance markets were rejected outright, charged higher premiums, or had one or more disease conditions removed from coverage.
Possible Removal Of Pre-Existing Conditions Protections

WOW... 27% of adults under age 65 have a pre-existing condition that means of the total 55,671,030 supposedly
have a pre-existing condition that means that can't get health insurance right???
55.7 million! WOW...
But wait... 56% have group health insurance that covers them... that means.. 24.5 million without group insurance.
But wait...7% of Americans have private insurance so that leaves 22.7 million with out health insurance that might have "pre-existing conditions"...and can't get insurance... but WAIT...

When Obama floated this statement:
"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,
It was proven by Politifact.org that Obama was "sloppy" because he counted 10 million that were illegal aliens.!
Wow... that meant then not 46 million but 36 million... But WAIT.....

Obama forgot this fact that was later PROVEN to be true by the same guy who said it took the stupidity of voters to pass Obamacare, when Obama counted 14 million as part of the 46 million uninsured...THAT WERE ELIGIBLE BEFORE ACA for Medicaid... they just didn't enroll!
PROOF! Last year, analysis from the RAND Corporation found that 6.1 million new Medicaid enrollees were already
eligible for Medicaid. MIT economist and Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber estimates that nearly 9 million new Medicaid enrollees were already eligible.
Millions of Obamacare enrollees already had health insurance

a) So of the 46 million Obama stated 10 million illegal, 14 million were eligible for Medicaid...
that leaves 22 million that don't have insurance...
b) So if the 27% is a valid number 27% of 22 million that honestly WANT health insurance but due to pre-existing
conditions or less than 6 million people that can't get health insurance that want health insurance but due to
pre-existing conditions can't get it!

I'm going to shout now:
THAT is NOT half of all Americans that have pre-existing conditions!!!
Yet that was what started this whole conversation when Obama said:
Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition." — Barack Obama on Thursday, September 26th, 2013 in a speech about the Affordable Care Act
Obama says half of Americans have a pre-existing condition

AND that's what got people all bent out of shape!
There are NOT half of all Americans that pre-existing conditions preventing them from getting health insurance!

NOW here is a solution for those truly 6 million that either don't qualify for Medicaid or group health insurance:
TAX the lawyers who have caused NEARLY $850 Billion a year in wasted health expenses.
10% of the The legal services industry in the United States generated 256.66 billion U.S. dollars in revenue in 2013.Topic: Legal services industry in the U.S.
25 billion in tax revenue would provide a $340/month health insurance premium for the 6 million that have pre-existing conditions.
View attachment 221886

Anecdote: Years ago I recall hearing of a son advised to NOT donate a matching kidney to his desperately ill father because it would create in the son a 'pre-existing condition' that would penalize him the rest of his life. I believe he went ahead anyway. I wonder how he feels now, having the pre-existing part erased, then restored by an admin that taxes in a way the makes the rich richer and takes away deductions from the poorer among us.

SAD... I'm sure... BUT ANECDOTAL! And that's the problem with it!
And this anti-rich attitude is so cliched! So stupid.
Just an aside... WHAT do you think the "rich" do with the money that takes money away from the poor and gives to the "rich".
Are you just that stupid to think the "rich" bury the money or hide under their mattresses?
TELL me exactly WHAT do you think the "rich" do with this largesse???
Explain where that money goes?

Well, sad to say I am not rich, and I really don't know well anybody who is rich, so you question is hypothetical. And I am not against the rich. It's just that few if any of us has everything we want, and yet most of us have everything we need. Food, shelter, clothing, a job or retirement, a movie now and then.... But there's those have real need, and I don't see where Mnuchin or Manfort or Trump's money goes. A person can only eat so much, can sleep just as well on percale sheets as silk, can drive a nice Buick as well as in Infiniti, get around without their own 747, and shave off a little scratch for the children of lesser gods. Not give it all away, but stop hoarding and stop flaunting.

Other people’s wealth is none of your fucking business, and certainly none of the federal government’s business

 

[Rustic]

Does this sound like a great system?

The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).

Keep your socialized medicine is to yourselves, Millions of conservatives want no part of it

Doesn't matter whether you want it, the chances are pretty good that you're eventually going to get it.

The tide has turned and the "GIVE MEs" outnumber the "I'll EARN ITs", the American spirit of self-reliance and personal responsibility is on its deathbed. Eventually the progressive gub'mint worshippers are going to get their way, unfortunately we're all going to have to end up paying the price for it.

… on the bright side, once they're done destroying the currency and the economy along with it, the progressive numbskulls will be too busy starving to bother with obsessing over controlling everybody else's lives.

Yep, Being forced into a socialist entitlement programs is beyond fucked up. They have always been about control

 

[Dana7360]

`
"For years, people who had been diagnosed with chronic health problems found it difficult, if not impossible, to purchase health insurance on the private market. "

`

Yeah, I had the same problem, I found it impossible to purchase fire insurance on my house after it burned down.

What kind of heartless asshole won't insurance against eventualities that have already occurred ?

What you've posted is disgusting and not what is happening.

I'm a good example.

I am going to lose the insurance I've had for many decades because of divorce.

I've paid premiums, deductibles and copayments all my adult life. I've paid into the insurance system for decades but never needed to use it.

Then one day in 2009 while on vacation massive 15 ft monster waves fell on me. Nearly killed me and put me in a coma. I ended up with a spine injury with nerve damage in my hands and arms.

Two years after that I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I knew all my adult life that while I had not used my insurance I was paying for someone else to have health care who needed it. When I needed it, I would have it.

That's the way insurance works. People pool their money together to pay the bills. No one person can afford to pay it themselves so insurance brought many people together to pay their health care costs.

I paid for people before me for decades. My money made sure that they didn't die from an accident or disease. I was very happy to pay it knowing that when I got older my medical bills would be paid.

Now, because of divorce, I lose that insurance I've been paying into all my adult life.

I paid thousands of dollars over the decades for other people to have insurance. Now that it's my turn to have my medical bills paid, the republicans are trying their hardest to take it from me.

Once COBRA runs out for me I'm on my own. No employer provided insurance anymore. I'm on the open market. Where republicans are trying their best to make sure I'll never be able to buy insurance again.

Only because you buy into stupid slogans like you posted above. I've paid into the system for decades. Through no fault of my own, I'm going to lose it and you republicans are doing everything you can to make sure I will never be able to buy insurance again.

Let me make this very clear to you.

I STARTED PAYING FOR INSURANCE IN 1978 WHEN I TURNED 18 AND NO LONGER COULD BE ON MY PARENTS POLICY.

I'VE PAID INTO IT FOR 40 YEARS. MY HOUSE DIDN'T BURN DOWN THEN I EXPECTED PEOPLE TO REBUILD IT.

I PAID THOUSANDS OVER 40 YEARS.

I'm not asking for anything free nor any special treatment. I paid for others for decades. I paid and paid my own dues and now you want to lie about it to justify making it legal for no insurance company to sell me insurance ever again in my life.

The only reason why many people didn't have health care was some insurance company rated them preexisting condition then kicked them off insurance, leaving them with the that history so no other insurance company will sell it to them. In most cases it wasn't the person's choice. They got sick, kicked off their insurance and no other company would sell to them.

It's a system that's very bad and needed to be reformed.

The last thing a sick person should face is being denied health care.

It's a conflict of interest to allow an insurance company to make the decision if a person gets care or not. They have a financial interest to not provide that care so they shouldn't be making that decision.

No government should have the right to take health care from people through legislation without offering the people an alternative.

republicans say they want to offer choice but leave out the best choice we can have. A public option. The only reason why republicans won't allow a public option is because the vast majority of Americans will choose that public option over the lying and thieving insurance company. Private for profit insurance companies will go out of business. They have treated Americans so horribly that most of us would run to a public option just to get away from the lying, thieving insurance companies.

 

[NightFox]

`
"For years, people who had been diagnosed with chronic health problems found it difficult, if not impossible, to purchase health insurance on the private market. "

`

Yeah, I had the same problem, I found it impossible to purchase fire insurance on my house after it burned down.

What kind of heartless asshole won't insurance against eventualities that have already occurred ?

What you've posted is disgusting and not what is happening.

Thanks, it's nice to be appreciated.

I'm not asking for anything free nor any special treatment. I paid for others for decades.

Great, now go ahead and see if those "others" will help you out, good luck with that.

"All attempts to coerce the living will of human beings into the service of something they do not want must fail." -- Ludwig Von Mises, Socialism

 

[Rustic]

`
"For years, people who had been diagnosed with chronic health problems found it difficult, if not impossible, to purchase health insurance on the private market. "

`

Yeah, I had the same problem, I found it impossible to purchase fire insurance on my house after it burned down.

What kind of heartless asshole won't insurance against eventualities that have already occurred ?

What you've posted is disgusting and not what is happening.

I'm a good example.

I am going to lose the insurance I've had for many decades because of divorce.

I've paid premiums, deductibles and copayments all my adult life. I've paid into the insurance system for decades but never needed to use it.

Then one day in 2009 while on vacation massive 15 ft monster waves fell on me. Nearly killed me and put me in a coma. I ended up with a spine injury with nerve damage in my hands and arms.

Two years after that I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I knew all my adult life that while I had not used my insurance I was paying for someone else to have health care who needed it. When I needed it, I would have it.

That's the way insurance works. People pool their money together to pay the bills. No one person can afford to pay it themselves so insurance brought many people together to pay their health care costs.

I paid for people before me for decades. My money made sure that they didn't die from an accident or disease. I was very happy to pay it knowing that when I got older my medical bills would be paid.

Now, because of divorce, I lose that insurance I've been paying into all my adult life.

I paid thousands of dollars over the decades for other people to have insurance. Now that it's my turn to have my medical bills paid, the republicans are trying their hardest to take it from me.

Once COBRA runs out for me I'm on my own. No employer provided insurance anymore. I'm on the open market. Where republicans are trying their best to make sure I'll never be able to buy insurance again.

Only because you buy into stupid slogans like you posted above. I've paid into the system for decades. Through no fault of my own, I'm going to lose it and you republicans are doing everything you can to make sure I will never be able to buy insurance again.

Let me make this very clear to you.

I STARTED PAYING FOR INSURANCE IN 1978 WHEN I TURNED 18 AND NO LONGER COULD BE ON MY PARENTS POLICY.

I'VE PAID INTO IT FOR 40 YEARS. MY HOUSE DIDN'T BURN DOWN THEN I EXPECTED PEOPLE TO REBUILD IT.

I PAID THOUSANDS OVER 40 YEARS.

I'm not asking for anything free nor any special treatment. I paid for others for decades. I paid and paid my own dues and now you want to lie about it to justify making it legal for no insurance company to sell me insurance ever again in my life.

The only reason why many people didn't have health care was some insurance company rated them preexisting condition then kicked them off insurance, leaving them with the that history so no other insurance company will sell it to them. In most cases it wasn't the person's choice. They got sick, kicked off their insurance and no other company would sell to them.

It's a system that's very bad and needed to be reformed.

The last thing a sick person should face is being denied health care.

It's a conflict of interest to allow an insurance company to make the decision if a person gets care or not. They have a financial interest to not provide that care so they shouldn't be making that decision.

No government should have the right to take health care from people through legislation without offering the people an alternative.

republicans say they want to offer choice but leave out the best choice we can have. A public option. The only reason why republicans won't allow a public option is because the vast majority of Americans will choose that public option over the lying and thieving insurance company. Private for profit insurance companies will go out of business. They have treated Americans so horribly that most of us would run to a public option just to get away from the lying, thieving insurance companies.

That’s fine and dandy, I don’t want any part of any insurance/socialized medicine/collective… Because I know they will not benefit me whatsoever, Just like millions of other conservatives

 

[Polishprince]

It's a conflict of interest to allow an insurance company to make the decision if a person gets care or not. They have a financial interest to not provide that care so they shouldn't be making that decision.

No government should have the right to take health care from people through legislation without offering the people an alternative.

republicans say they want to offer choice but leave out the best choice we can have. A public option. The only reason why republicans won't allow a public option is because the vast majority of Americans will choose that public option over the lying and thieving insurance company. Private for profit insurance companies will go out of business. They have treated Americans so horribly that most of us would run to a public option just to get away from the lying, thieving insurance companies.

First off, no insurance company can order or forbid any medical treatment, they can only make a determination as to whether the treatment that people are requesting payment for is covered under the policy that is in effect. If the policy holder disagrees with their determination, there are procedures in place to adjudicate the matter and lawyers and public adjusters available for hire if the individual thinks its necessary.

Second, a "public option" is stupid. No private company which needs to make a profit can compete with a government that doesn't need to worry about solvency. Private firms, in order to actually compete, would have to do so on the basis of Quality- and sign top physicians and surgeons to exclusive contracts. Unless you sign with XYZ Insurance Company, you will be unable to have your needed brain surgery done by Dr. Cushing at Johns Hopkins and will have to have it done by Dr. Nick Riviera at Springfield General.

 

[Dana7360]

It's a conflict of interest to allow an insurance company to make the decision if a person gets care or not. They have a financial interest to not provide that care so they shouldn't be making that decision.

No government should have the right to take health care from people through legislation without offering the people an alternative.

republicans say they want to offer choice but leave out the best choice we can have. A public option. The only reason why republicans won't allow a public option is because the vast majority of Americans will choose that public option over the lying and thieving insurance company. Private for profit insurance companies will go out of business. They have treated Americans so horribly that most of us would run to a public option just to get away from the lying, thieving insurance companies.

First off, no insurance company can order or forbid any medical treatment, they can only make a determination as to whether the treatment that people are requesting payment for is covered under the policy that is in effect. If the policy holder disagrees with their determination, there are procedures in place to adjudicate the matter and lawyers and public adjusters available for hire if the individual thinks its necessary.

Second, a "public option" is stupid. No private company which needs to make a profit can compete with a government that doesn't need to worry about solvency. Private firms, in order to actually compete, would have to do so on the basis of Quality- and sign top physicians and surgeons to exclusive contracts. Unless you sign with XYZ Insurance Company, you will be unable to have your needed brain surgery done by Dr. Cushing at Johns Hopkins and will have to have it done by Dr. Nick Riviera at Springfield General.

I didn't get past the lie in the first sentence so I stopped reading.

That wave accident cause severe damage to my spine that couldn't be fixed with surgery on my spine.

So my doctors recommended I have my breasts reduced to take pressure off my spine.

My doctors submitted it to the insurance company for approval. Which should never be required. That decision should be made by the patient and doctor only. The insurance company DENIED the surgery. My doctors had to fight with the insurance company for months to get them to approve that surgery. They finally did but when I did have the surgery and the bills went to the insurance company, the insurance company went back on their word and denied payment.

Even though I had a letter from the insurance company approving the surgery saying it would be covered at 100%.

I was lucky, I had a union to go to. The union has people whose only job is to work with the insurance company to solve problems. I went to the union with my letter from the insurance company on a Thursday. By that next Tuesday the insurance company agreed to keep their word to pay for the surgery. If I had not had the union to go to, I would probably still be in legal hell over it. I would have had to spend thousands on a lawyer and probably go to court over it.

The insurance company certainly does approve or disapprove of treatment,. By denying payment.

No one has the tens of thousands it costs for surgery so if the insurance company denies payment, they've denied the health care completely. If the insurance company doesn't pay for it, the patient doesn't get the health care services.

So yes insurance companies do approve or deny health care. They do it every day all the time for the only reason of they make more money by denying people health care.

It's a conflict of interest and should not be allowed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The below statement sums up why the issue is phony.

An estimated 27% of adults under age 65 in the U.S. have a pre-existing condition.

And, a 2010 study conducted before enactment of ACA showed that 42% of adults aged 50 to 64 who tried to buy insurance in individual insurance markets were rejected outright, charged higher premiums, or had one or more disease conditions removed from coverage.
Possible Removal Of Pre-Existing Conditions Protections

WOW... 27% of adults under age 65 have a pre-existing condition that means of the total 55,671,030 supposedly
have a pre-existing condition that means that can't get health insurance right???
55.7 million! WOW...
But wait... 56% have group health insurance that covers them... that means.. 24.5 million without group insurance.
But wait...7% of Americans have private insurance so that leaves 22.7 million with out health insurance that might have "pre-existing conditions"...and can't get insurance... but WAIT...

When Obama floated this statement:
"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,
It was proven by Politifact.org that Obama was "sloppy" because he counted 10 million that were illegal aliens.!
Wow... that meant then not 46 million but 36 million... But WAIT.....

Obama forgot this fact that was later PROVEN to be true by the same guy who said it took the stupidity of voters to pass Obamacare, when Obama counted 14 million as part of the 46 million uninsured...THAT WERE ELIGIBLE BEFORE ACA for Medicaid... they just didn't enroll!
PROOF! Last year, analysis from the RAND Corporation found that 6.1 million new Medicaid enrollees were already
eligible for Medicaid. MIT economist and Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber estimates that nearly 9 million new Medicaid enrollees were already eligible.
Millions of Obamacare enrollees already had health insurance

a) So of the 46 million Obama stated 10 million illegal, 14 million were eligible for Medicaid...
that leaves 22 million that don't have insurance...
b) So if the 27% is a valid number 27% of 22 million that honestly WANT health insurance but due to pre-existing
conditions or less than 6 million people that can't get health insurance that want health insurance but due to
pre-existing conditions can't get it!

I'm going to shout now:
THAT is NOT half of all Americans that have pre-existing conditions!!!
Yet that was what started this whole conversation when Obama said:
Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition." — Barack Obama on Thursday, September 26th, 2013 in a speech about the Affordable Care Act
Obama says half of Americans have a pre-existing condition

AND that's what got people all bent out of shape!
There are NOT half of all Americans that pre-existing conditions preventing them from getting health insurance!

NOW here is a solution for those truly 6 million that either don't qualify for Medicaid or group health insurance:
TAX the lawyers who have caused NEARLY $850 Billion a year in wasted health expenses.
10% of the The legal services industry in the United States generated 256.66 billion U.S. dollars in revenue in 2013.Topic: Legal services industry in the U.S.
25 billion in tax revenue would provide a $340/month health insurance premium for the 6 million that have pre-existing conditions.
View attachment 221886

Are you trying to justify health insurance that fucks people over? The US is the only first world country that doesn't bother with giving its citizens decent healthcare at affordable prices. Because the US is run for the rich, who can afford to pay whatever.