Why is your health

[Truthmatters]

its called thinking Dude , try it for yourself for once.

 

[blu]

It isn't. BUT:

OK. Say you are my brother. He is a sous chef and a part-time pastry chef (wedding cakes on the side for extra money) and he makes an average of $10 an hour (a GENEROUS going rate for that position). If you get sick and your employer doesn't give you sick days, you may lose your job. If you get really sick for too many days, you WILL lose your job AND your place to live. So, you're saying my brother doesn't deserve to be able to get medical care if he needs it? He can't afford to pay for private insurance on his salary. He is now "working his way up" and he certainly can't afford private insurance on his own (and neither could I and I make 4x what he makes) and no restaurants offer medical benefits to anyone but management, which is standard procedure. You're saying that he doesn't deserve to be able to buy into a low cost, non-profit public option like a co-op? Otherwise, he CANNOT afford anything but emergency care.

if you work full time making 4x your brother ($40 an hour) that means you make 80k a year. you can't afford health insurace on that? and what 80k a year job doesnt provide health insurance?

 

[Avatar4321]

someone else's responsibility?

Why is protecting your private property, somebody else's business?

It's not. That's what guns are for.

 

[Avatar4321]

Everyone pays for our education in this country and everyone should also pay for our health.

To compete in a global market we need to have an educated population.

To compete in a glob al market we also need a healthy population.

Stupid and sick will kill this country.

You seem to be doing quite fine for yourself.

 

[Oddball]

its called thinking Dude , try it for yourself for once.

Sputtering out a bunch of platitudes and aphorisms takes no thought at all.

That's probably why you're so good at it.

 

[Liability]

To my politically "liberal" (or "progressive" [like that's a different political philosophy]) friends:

I do not feel well today.

Is this your problem?

Are you obligated to do something about it?

I have a job. I have a health care plan. But if it turns out to be inadequate, may I call you for money since my doctor seems to think that he's entitled to get paid for the services he performs for me? And the drug companies have the apparently same belief that they are entitled to get paid for the products they manufacture which I may need (as per my doctor).

If you agree that my health is your problem, let's cut out the middle-man. The government just provides for massive inefficiencies in the transfer of your wealth to me and through me to the doctors and drug companies. Ergo, if you agree that my health issues are your problem, let me know so I can get you to pay directly to me via PayPal. Might as well keep it all friendly and anonymous.

Thanks.

 

[Avatar4321]

To my politically "liberal" (or "progressive" [like that's a different political philosophy]) friends:

I do not feel well today.

Is this your problem?

Are you obligated to do something about it?

I have a job. I have a health care plan. But if it turns out to be inadequate, may I call you for money since my doctor seems to think that he's entitled to get paid for the services he performs for me? And the drug companies have the apparently same belief that they are entitled to get paid for the products they manufacture which I may need (as per my doctor).

If you agree that my health is your problem, let's cut out the middle-man. The government just provides for massive inefficiencies in the transfer of your wealth to me and through me to the doctors and drug companies. Ergo, if you agree that my health issues are your problem, let me know so I can get you to pay directly to me via PayPal. Might as well keep it all friendly and anonymous.

Thanks.

I agree. Please send the money directly to both of us. Saves a lot of time and trouble.

 

[Bfgrn]

To my politically "liberal" (or "progressive" [like that's a different political philosophy]) friends:

I do not feel well today.

Is this your problem?

Are you obligated to do something about it?

I have a job. I have a health care plan. But if it turns out to be inadequate, may I call you for money since my doctor seems to think that he's entitled to get paid for the services he performs for me? And the drug companies have the apparently same belief that they are entitled to get paid for the products they manufacture which I may need (as per my doctor).

If you agree that my health is your problem, let's cut out the middle-man. The government just provides for massive inefficiencies in the transfer of your wealth to me and through me to the doctors and drug companies. Ergo, if you agree that my health issues are your problem, let me know so I can get you to pay directly to me via PayPal. Might as well keep it all friendly and anonymous.

Thanks.

$1,700 of YOUR annual insurance premium pays for free riders...

Maybe a conservative economist can explain it to people with itsy bitsy brains...

The 'Free-Rider Effect'

Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, says it wasn't just his idea. Back in the late 1980s — when Democrats were pushing not just a requirement for employers to provide insurance, but also the possibility of a government-sponsored single-payer system — "a group of economists and health policy people, market-oriented, sat down and said, 'Let's see if we can come up with a health reform proposal that would preserve a role for markets but would also achieve universal coverage.' "

One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

"We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

 

[Liability]

To my politically "liberal" (or "progressive" [like that's a different political philosophy]) friends:

I do not feel well today.

Is this your problem?

Are you obligated to do something about it?

I have a job. I have a health care plan. But if it turns out to be inadequate, may I call you for money since my doctor seems to think that he's entitled to get paid for the services he performs for me? And the drug companies have the apparently same belief that they are entitled to get paid for the products they manufacture which I may need (as per my doctor).

If you agree that my health is your problem, let's cut out the middle-man. The government just provides for massive inefficiencies in the transfer of your wealth to me and through me to the doctors and drug companies. Ergo, if you agree that my health issues are your problem, let me know so I can get you to pay directly to me via PayPal. Might as well keep it all friendly and anonymous.

Thanks.

$1,700 of YOUR annual insurance premium pays for free riders...

Maybe a conservative economist can explain it to people with itsy bitsy brains...

The 'Free-Rider Effect'

Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, says it wasn't just his idea. Back in the late 1980s — when Democrats were pushing not just a requirement for employers to provide insurance, but also the possibility of a government-sponsored single-payer system — "a group of economists and health policy people, market-oriented, sat down and said, 'Let's see if we can come up with a health reform proposal that would preserve a role for markets but would also achieve universal coverage.' "

One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

"We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

Wait a second. So you're saying that a contract I have which discloses such things is somehow relevant to my post?

 

[The T]

someone else's responsibility?

Why is protecting your private property, somebody else's business?

Your argument is a non-starter. Government is charged with protecting your LIBERTY. It's ONE of the legit functions of Government. that's why we have Law Enforcement, why we have a military.

Remember Life? Liberty, The persuit of happiness?

Methinks you are in dire need of re-education Founder's-Style.

 

[The T]

Everyone pays for our education in this country and everyone should also pay for our health.

And WE are getting royally SCREWED for what we pay for it. Most of it goes to the Government and Teacher's Unions...screw the children getting a REAL education instead of indoctrination at the hands of Government and the Unions...NEXT...

To compete in a global market we need to have an educated population.

See ABOVE

To compete in a glob al market we also need a healthy population.

Sure. I'll buy this for $1.00. So in order to participate? Do you not think that it would be incumbent for folks to prioritize and keep themselves healthy #1 so they can participate? It's an individual's choice. You are healthy because you choose to lead lifestyle's that bolster it.

And IF you make the wrong lifestyle choices? WHY for heaven's sake should the burden be shifted to the taxpayer for faulty priorities on YOUR part?

You have the right to healthcare... by right I mean it's a choice that YOU make. And It's something that government needs to keep their hands off. They have made a mess of this...and wish to make the problem larger by further meddling.

Stupid and sick will kill this country.

So you admit to the whole premise of government getting involved. Good for you. See? this wasn't that hard, now was it?

You think FORCING folks to something against their will at the behest of Government, and government calling the shots is a good thing?

We told One king to fuck off. Need we repeat History? Apparently we are. The people have already said NO. And what part of the word NO do you not understand?

We aren't STUPID as you seem to suggest in your last sentence, and we know better than Government.

Thanks for your attention.

~T

 

[Oddball]

Everyone pays for our education in this country and everyone should also pay for our health.

Only someone with a screw loose could use the gubmint schools as an example of "success", which could credibly be used as an argument the same model should be used to deliver medical services.

 

[Care4all]

someone else's responsibility?

why is it the company one works at responsible for it? how did THAT happen? is that what you are asking? Cuz as we sit, most people are NOT responsible or fully responsible for their own health care /insurance....their employer pays 60-90% of the cost for them, also the employer is the one who chooses what coverage or policy you can have....you don't have any choices now, or just minimal ones.

 

[Oddball]

someone else's responsibility?

why is it the company one works at responsible for it? how did THAT happen? is that what you are asking? Cuz as we sit, most people are NOT responsible or fully responsible for their own health care /insurance....their employer pays 60-90% of the cost for them, also the employer is the one who chooses what coverage or policy you can have....you don't have any choices now, or just minimal ones.

It happened when FDR and his silly overreaching New Deal froze wages, but didn't apply the freeze to fringe benefits. So, employers started offering medical insurance rolled into their pay packages to attract employees.

Now, somehow, it's concluded that the only way to correct that misstep is to do more of it.

 

[Care4all]

It isn't. BUT:

OK. Say you are my brother. He is a sous chef and a part-time pastry chef (wedding cakes on the side for extra money) and he makes an average of $10 an hour (a GENEROUS going rate for that position). If you get sick and your employer doesn't give you sick days, you may lose your job. If you get really sick for too many days, you WILL lose your job AND your place to live. So, you're saying my brother doesn't deserve to be able to get medical care if he needs it? He can't afford to pay for private insurance on his salary. He is now "working his way up" and he certainly can't afford private insurance on his own (and neither could I and I make 4x what he makes) and no restaurants offer medical benefits to anyone but management, which is standard procedure. You're saying that he doesn't deserve to be able to buy into a low cost, non-profit public option like a co-op? Otherwise, he CANNOT afford anything but emergency care.

if you work full time making 4x your brother ($40 an hour) that means you make 80k a year. you can't afford health insurace on that? and what 80k a year job doesnt provide health insurance?

just because you are grossing 80k, doesn't mean you can afford an individual health care insurance policy for you and family...

an individual healh care policy for matt and me costs $25k a year for us and even with 80k GROSS, $25k a year plus a 5k deductible for the 2 and copays, is not affordable.....

individual policies, ones you go to buy on your own, without a 'work group' or group policy, are UNAFFORDABLE in my state....even making 80k, as said.

 

[Big Black Dog]

an individual healh care policy for matt and me costs $25k a year

I sold insurance for two years with two major insurance companies and I never heard of anybody having an individual health care policy that cost $25,000.00 a year. I think this is a bullshit statement geared towards making it seem like health care insurance is out of reach for people. Anybody that makes $80K a year as you say you do should be able to buy health care insurance with any company they would choose to buy it from. If you can't afford to buy health care insurance and you are making $80K a year as you say you are, you must be so far in debt that you can't see straight. It isn't my problem that you don't know how to manage your own personal affairs and it isn't the responsibily of the government to do it either. The constitution does not allow for it.

 

[blu]

Everyone pays for our education in this country and everyone should also pay for our health.

And WE are getting royally SCREWED for what we pay for it. Most of it goes to the Government and Teacher's Unions...screw the children getting a REAL education instead of indoctrination at the hands of Government and the Unions...NEXT...

To compete in a global market we need to have an educated population.

See ABOVE

To compete in a glob al market we also need a healthy population.

Sure. I'll buy this for $1.00. So in order to participate? Do you not think that it would be incumbent for folks to prioritize and keep themselves healthy #1 so they can participate? It's an individual's choice. You are healthy because you choose to lead lifestyle's that bolster it.

And IF you make the wrong lifestyle choices? WHY for heaven's sake should the burden be shifted to the taxpayer for faulty priorities on YOUR part?

You have the right to healthcare... by right I mean it's a choice that YOU make. And It's something that government needs to keep their hands off. They have made a mess of this...and wish to make the problem larger by further meddling.

Stupid and sick will kill this country.

So you admit to the whole premise of government getting involved. Good for you. See? this wasn't that hard, now was it?

You think FORCING folks to something against their will at the behest of Government, and government calling the shots is a good thing?

We told One king to fuck off. Need we repeat History? Apparently we are. The people have already said NO. And what part of the word NO do you not understand?

We aren't STUPID as you seem to suggest in your last sentence, and we know better than Government.

Thanks for your attention.

~T

and if you live a healthily life style and get sick? what then?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

someone else's responsibility?

Good point. It's not.

I'll remember that the day you need emergency medical attention.

Av: Help...

Pro: Heart attack?

Av: please... *gasp*

Pro: damned... too bad you convinced me we have no moral obligation to help our fellow Man. Bet you wish I were still a Leftist

Av: dies

Pro: What size are those kicks?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Please, brother, tell me where these low cost non-profit public option policies are available.

Why is it the Governments responsibility to provide you low cost health Insurance?

Who said anything about insurance before you?

The OP said health.

I can see the jump to health care. You're the first to bring money into it. Why is that?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

someone else's responsibility?

Why is protecting your private property, somebody else's business?

It isn't, BUZZ try again. BUT if you are referring to the police, we the people LOCALLY, created them and pay for them LOCALLY. State and Federal Law Enforcement are not protectors of any sort they are reactionary in response to BROKEN laws. And the Federal Government is VERY limited on what it can be the first responder to in regards law enforcement.

Why should I be forced to pay taxes to protect your bitch ass?