Why is the separation of church and state a seemingly one-way street?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by manifold, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Why is it that the concept of separation of church and state is really only ever discussed in terms of the government staying out of religion? If the separation were to be true and definitive, shouldn't religion also stay out of government? Is that even possible?

    Please discuss.
     
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  2. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    I agree, but...and that's a big but...that direction would be a violation of First Amendment rights.

    I do think that violations of non-profits concerning partisanship should be better enforced.

    You have the freedom to express partisanship as a non-profit, but don't expect any government gifts for it.
     
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  3. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Well Jesus for sure thought religion should stay out of government.
     
  4. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Well that for sure can't be true.

    If it was, then Christians who follow the word of Christ and believe him to be the Son of God would also believe that, right?
     
  5. Lonestar_logic
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    Lonestar_logic Republic of Texas

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    Separation of church and state is a fallacy.

    Thomas Jefferson:

    "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

    George Washington - Inaugural Speech to Congress April 30, 1789:

    "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency ... We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a Nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained."

    Abraham Lincoln:

    "It is the duty of nations as well as men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history: that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."

    "All the good from the Saviour of the World is communicated through this Book; but for the Book we could not know right from wrong. All the things desirable to man are contained in it."

    John Adams:

    "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion ... Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
     
  6. johnrocks
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    johnrocks Silver Member

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    Like most every other aspect of intervention being a one way street, social cons aren't against more government, they are just against YOUR kind of more government, get someone elected who wants to legislate all Ten Commandments and the rest of the King James Version into law and you'll have em salivating like a rabid dog.
     
  7. Gadawg73
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    Gadawg73 Gold Member

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    Thomas Jefferson: "The clergy by getting themselves established by law and ingratiated into the machine of government have been a formidable engine AGAINST THE CIVIL AND RELIGOUS RIGHTS OF MAN."
    "I am for religous freedom and against all manuevers to bring about a legal ascendary of one sect over another"
    "The law for religous freedom has put down the religous aristocracy of the clergy and resored to the citizen the freedom of the mind"

    All said over 200 years ago and today some folks would have us believe we are a Christian nation and the Founders wanted religous influence in government.
    The Founders WANTED NO religous influence in government.
    Get over it. Need more?
     
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  8. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    CHURCH (establishment) implies a government organization of religion imposing itself upon the freedom of the people.

    RELIGION implies all the ideas people hold regarding their beliefs - they are personal ideas and we have the right to free speech.... no matter what the subject we are not forbidden by the Constitution to express our ideas....whether they are religious or not...and this includes free speech in the public square.

    Liberals want freedom FROM religion.....not freedom OF religion...
     
  9. rdean
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    rdean rddean

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    You can't be serious.

    What was the quote?

    Render unto Caesar…" is the beginning of a phrase attributed to Jesus in the synoptic gospels, which reads in full, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (“Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ”) (Matthew 22:21).

    This phrase has become a widely quoted summary of the relationship between Christianity and secular authority. The original message, coming in response to a question of whether it was lawful for Jews to pay taxes to Caesar, gives rise to multiple possible interpretations about whether it is desirable for the Christian to submit to earthly authority. Interpretations include the belief that

    It is good and appropriate to submit to the state when asked;
    Spiritual demands supersede earthly demands, but do not abolish them;
    The demands of the state are non-negotiable;
    Spiritual authority should maintain its independence from temporal authority, which rules by force rather than moral law.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...
     
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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  10. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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