Why is it shocking that the top 1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax?

[Oddball]

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

And when basic business accounting points out that the employees really pay ALL of the 15+% FICA/Medcare/Medicaid tax, the meme about "the employer pays half" is exposed as a lie.

Talk about your regressive taxation.

What's the purpose of such semantics? One could as easily state that the employer pays it all, and pays the employee less to compensate. Bottom line remains the same. Employee walks away with the same money no matter which way you choose to state it.

The purpose of such semantics to fool the worker.

Why do you support financial shell games and lying to the worker?

 

[martybegan]

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

And since when in discussions such as these income tax does not usually refer to SS taxes the statement is true.

The difference is that when you pay into social security you are expecting a specifc benefit, your pension when you hit age X. When you pay your Federal Income Tax you are then paying for the government itself, not something defined that you "get back" later on.

People also forget that the actual SS tax is DOUBLE what you pay, the other half being paid by your employer, unless you are self employed (then you pay it all). It isnt the fault of those who paid into the system that the goverment has raided that money for general use by investing it all in government bonds.

They were right to invest it. They were wrong to run massive deficits. Two completely separate issues.

Very good point. i stand corrected.

 

[8537]

It's not so shocking. The top 5% pay 70% of all income taxes.

The shocking part is that the sheep want them to pay more.

The top 5% have about 70% of the income as well, not to mention more than 70% of the wealth.

Another falsehood, the top 20% only have 50% of the net worth so it's impossible for the top 5% to have even more than that.

The top 5% have 27% of the net worth and 29% of the financial wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

Your link shows that the top 20% have 85.1% of total net worth and 93% of financial wealth.

 

[Cuyo]

And when basic business accounting points out that the employees really pay ALL of the 15+% FICA/Medcare/Medicaid tax, the meme about "the employer pays half" is exposed as a lie.

Talk about your regressive taxation.

What's the purpose of such semantics? One could as easily state that the employer pays it all, and pays the employee less to compensate. Bottom line remains the same. Employee walks away with the same money no matter which way you choose to state it.

The purpose of such semantics to fool the worker.

Why do you support financial shell games and lying to the worker?

Alright, easy tiger. Don't get all conspiracy whacked on my so early in the morning.

You could correctly state that the employer pays all of it. You could also correctly state that since it's in lieu of additional wages, the employee pays all of it by extension. Or you can correctly state that it's half and half.

What's the difference how you say it? It's all the same - That's the point.

 

[Oddball]

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

How often do you file to see if you owe more or get a refund on FICA withheld?

The most recent temporary sop aside, when have any of them proposed a permanent FICA tax cut?

 

[martybegan]

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

So if you use "Federal Income Tax" which is your 1040 form, does the 50% pay no taxes line hold?

 

[Oddball]

What's the purpose of such semantics? One could as easily state that the employer pays it all, and pays the employee less to compensate. Bottom line remains the same. Employee walks away with the same money no matter which way you choose to state it.

The purpose of such semantics to fool the worker.

Why do you support financial shell games and lying to the worker?

Alright, easy tiger. Don't get all conspiracy whacked on my so early in the morning.

You could correctly state that the employer pays all of it. You could also correctly state that since it's in lieu of additional wages, the employee pays all of it by extension. Or you can correctly state that it's half and half.

What's the difference how you say it? It's all the same - That's the point.

But almost nobody says that....They continue with the deceptive "employer pays half" meme.

If you could correctly point out that the worker pays half, why continue with the deception?

I'll tell you why...The employer gets to deduct "his half".

The worker pays it all and the employer gets a nice fat deduction...True story.

 

[8537]

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

How often do you file to see if you owe more or get a refund on FICA withheld?

Never! That's because it's a well-designed tax that hasn't been bastardized by a 10,000 page tax code. It's 7.65% from both parties, up to 106k, with virtually no exceptions.

The most recent temporary sop aside, when have any of them proposed a permanent FICA tax cut?

Never! That's because a permanent cut in the FICA tax doesn't help the richest folks or the lobbyists.

 

[Jarhead]

What's the purpose of such semantics? One could as easily state that the employer pays it all, and pays the employee less to compensate. Bottom line remains the same. Employee walks away with the same money no matter which way you choose to state it.

The purpose of such semantics to fool the worker.

Why do you support financial shell games and lying to the worker?

Alright, easy tiger. Don't get all conspiracy whacked on my so early in the morning.

You could correctly state that the employer pays all of it. You could also correctly state that since it's in lieu of additional wages, the employee pays all of it by extension. Or you can correctly state that it's half and half.

What's the difference how you say it? It's all the same - That's the point.

But you are leaving ouyt one very important point....

It boils down to gross income. POeople determine their liquidity and spending power based on gross income (and also net income). No one says I am earning 50K but really 57.5K becuase my employer pays for this and that.....

And when you add in the formula that the demand for a position is what dictates the market salary (and dont even try to argue that with me...I am a business planner/recruiter.....you wont win that debate)......but when you add that in to the formula.....what the employer puts toward pension, FICA and tax match is irrelevant as it pertians to the salary one earns.

 

[8537]

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

So if you use "Federal Income Tax" which is your 1040 form, does the 50% pay no taxes line hold?

FICA is a federal tax on income. AKA a federal income tax. No quote/unquote tags necessary.

 

[Jarhead]

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

How often do you file to see if you owe more or get a refund on FICA withheld?

Never! That's because it's a well-designed tax that hasn't been bastardized by a 10,000 page tax code. It's 7.65% from both parties, up to 106k, with virtually no exceptions.

The most recent temporary sop aside, when have any of them proposed a permanent FICA tax cut?

Never! That's because a permanent cut in the FICA tax doesn't help the richest folks or the lobbyists.

I believe it maxes out at 104K....is it 106K?
I rememeber when it was 64K.....

 

[Jarhead]

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

So if you use "Federal Income Tax" which is your 1040 form, does the 50% pay no taxes line hold?

FICA is a federal tax on income. AKA a federal income tax. No quote/unquote tags necessary.

Actually...in all fairness....the quotes really are necessary.
Unlike typical income tax.....FICA is a tax that you get back in dollars....not services.....
SO whereas it is a tax, it is really a "forced savings"......and there is a difference and thus why it has its own separate box on thye tax form.

 

[8537]

I believe it maxes out at 104K....is it 106K?
I rememeber when it was 64K.....

I'm not sure what the exact cap is these days. Doesn't it increase with the CPI?

Or not...But I think that's right.

 

[martybegan]

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

So if you use "Federal Income Tax" which is your 1040 form, does the 50% pay no taxes line hold?

FICA is a federal tax on income. AKA a federal income tax. No quote/unquote tags necessary.

It is not THE Federal Income Tax, which is the largest source of revenue for the Federal Government. You also ignored my question. On this tax, how is the amount paid based on income bracket broken down?

Is there a large portion of the population that does not pay any of this Tax?

 

[Oddball]

Never! That's because it's a well-designed tax that hasn't been bastardized by a 10,000 page tax code. It's 7.65% from both parties, up to 106k, with virtually no exceptions.

No, it's 15+% entirely on the worker, with the employer getting a 7.65% exemption from his tax liability.

Before I starting filing Sub-S, I filed as self-employed for several years...You won't win this one.

The most recent temporary sop aside, when have any of them proposed a permanent FICA tax cut?

Never! That's because a permanent cut in the FICA tax doesn't help the richest folks or the lobbyists.

Sheer speculation.

 

[Jarhead]

I believe it maxes out at 104K....is it 106K?
I rememeber when it was 64K.....

I'm not sure what the exact cap is these days. Doesn't it increase with the CPI?

Or not...But I think that's right.

Either way it is a pnzi scheme in my eyes.

Sadly, I used to hit that cap a lot earlier in the year than I do now!

 

[8537]

So if you use "Federal Income Tax" which is your 1040 form, does the 50% pay no taxes line hold?

FICA is a federal tax on income. AKA a federal income tax. No quote/unquote tags necessary.

Actually...in all fairness....the quotes really are necessary.
Unlike typical income tax.....FICA is a tax that you get back in dollars....not services.....
SO whereas it is a tax, it is really a "forced savings"......and there is a difference and thus why it has its own separate box on thye tax form.

You don't get back your FICA. It's a transfer payment, just as any other social program is a transfer payment. It's taxing 1 person in order to fund another. and like most federal social programs, the transfer occurs via a tax on income.

 

[8537]

Never! That's because it's a well-designed tax that hasn't been bastardized by a 10,000 page tax code. It's 7.65% from both parties, up to 106k, with virtually no exceptions.

No, it's 15+% entirely on the worker, with the employer getting a 7.65% exemption from his tax liability.

Before I starting filing Sub-S, I filed as self-employed for several years...You won't win this one.

Who actually pays the tax is based on the elasticities of demand and supply, just like any other tax/

 

[Oddball]

Wrong...Every employee and fool who files SE pays it.

 

[asterism]

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

If you say that the claim on the "50% pay no taxes" is false, then what's the truth? What percentage pay no taxes? Do you consider later receipts in your calculations?

If we include Social Security in the income tax category then we should include Social Security in the income received category also, correct?