Why is it shocking that the top 1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax?

[8537]

Social security and medicare taxes are NOT income taxes.

Huh? They are a tax of 7.65% on every working person's income from labor, and they contribute to the general fund of the federal government.

If that's not an income tax, what is it?

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

Who gets back more in SS taxes than they pay in?

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

It is a tax on income. A tax on income is...an income tax (on the first 106K or so...). I don't care what you "call it". It's an income tax.

 

[Cuyo]

Social security and medicare taxes are NOT income taxes.

Huh? They are a tax of 7.65% on every working person's income from labor, and they contribute to the general fund of the federal government.

If that's not an income tax, what is it?

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k. Capital gains and Sub-S business income "Draws" are not subject to it at all.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Huh? They are a tax of 7.65% on every working person's income from labor, and they contribute to the general fund of the federal government.

If that's not an income tax, what is it?

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k.

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

Don't be obtuse in order to bolster an argument.

 

[Cuyo]

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k.

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

Don't be obtuse in order to bolster an argument.

No, I understand every aspect of the discussion. My point is that the reason that statistic has become so popular on the right is that it (falsely) makes upper earners appear unduly burdened.

Statistics are pliable. You can make them appear to say whatever you want them to say.

 

[asterism]

It's not so shocking. The top 5% pay 70% of all income taxes.

The shocking part is that the sheep want them to pay more.

The top 5% have about 70% of the income as well, not to mention more than 70% of the wealth.

That is not true. The top 5% earned 21.7% of the income in 2009.

Historical Income Tables - Income Inequality - U.S Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/inequality/H02AR_2009.xls

 

[8537]

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k.

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

 

[asterism]

Huh? They are a tax of 7.65% on every working person's income from labor, and they contribute to the general fund of the federal government.

If that's not an income tax, what is it?

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k. Capital gains and Sub-S business income "Draws" are not subject to it at all.

That is absolutely false. Only certain Capital gains income are not considered "ordinary income" and all S-Corp income is personal income subject to both sides (employer and employee) of Social Security payments. This is all in addition to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

In 2008 my assets went down, meaning I lost money in my business (I cut my personal consumption in half so I didn't spend more on my own stuff). However because of AMT disallowing deductions like interest payments on mortgages, healthcare, limits on realization of previous losses, and other restrictions in the tax code on what is a "cost" versus an investment my tax bill and my tax rate both went up.

 

[Claudette]

If the top 5% weren't there paying what they pay the rest of us taxpayers would be making up the difference.

Love that top 5 baby.

 

[Cuyo]

The fact that one usually gets more back in benefits than they pay in makes SS taxes different than income tax.

SS is based on income but they are not called income taxes.

When one speaks of income taxes, SS is not what is being referred to.

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k. Capital gains and Sub-S business income "Draws" are not subject to it at all.

That is absolutely false. Only certain Capital gains income are not considered "ordinary income" and all S-Corp income is personal income subject to both sides (employer and employee) of Social Security payments. This is all in addition to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

Hire a new accountant - What you've just said is flatly and provably false.

If you take PAYROLL from your sub-S (which is how I take most of my salary), yes it's subject to FICA. Draws plainly are not.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k.

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

And since when in discussions such as these income tax does not usually refer to SS taxes the statement is true.

 

[asterism]

It's not so shocking. The top 5% pay 70% of all income taxes.

The shocking part is that the sheep want them to pay more.

The top 5% have about 70% of the income as well, not to mention more than 70% of the wealth.

Another falsehood, the top 20% only have 50% of the net worth so it's impossible for the top 5% to have even more than that.

The top 5% have 27% of the net worth and 29% of the financial wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

Crap, I screwed up:

Accurate numbers from my link.


The top 5% have 62% of the net worth and 72% of the financial wealth.

 

[rdean]

In the 50s and 60s, CEOs of medium to large companies made 30 to 40 times the average worker. Now, they make 300 to 600 times the average worker. The companies don't employ more. Instead of growing their customer base, they squeeze the companies dry. This is capitalism?

Cigna is merely a "middle man" health care company. How many policies do you have to skim to make a single $120,000,000.00 payout to the CEO?

This bad business Republicans call "capitalism" and "good business". They say, "Let them keep their money, they worked hard for it". Did they? Did they "work" or did they "scam"?

Those in the Republicans base dream of pulling off such a scam. They don't dream of "inventions" or "new technology". They dream of screwing the American middle class for a few easy bucks. Most, if not all, Republicans see themselves as "millionaires" without funds. But still "millionaires". They just want their money protected so when they do get it, they get to keep it.

 

[Oddball]

Money in the treasury is fungible. Payroll taxes are disregarded in this particular statistic because the LOWER earners actually pay a disproportionately high percentage of them. There's no SS tax over $106k.

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

And when basic business accounting points out that the employees really pay ALL of the 15+% FICA/Medcare/Medicaid tax, the meme about "the employer pays half" is exposed as a lie.

Talk about your regressive taxation.

 

[asterism]

In the 50s and 60s, CEOs of medium to large companies made 30 to 40 times the average worker. Now, they make 300 to 600 times the average worker. The companies don't employ more. Instead of growing their customer base, they squeeze the companies dry. This is capitalism?

Cigna is merely a "middle man" health care company. How many policies do you have to skim to make a single $120,000,000.00 payout to the CEO?

This bad business Republicans call "capitalism" and "good business". They say, "Let them keep their money, they worked hard for it". Did they? Did they "work" or did they "scam"?

Those in the Republicans base dream of pulling off such a scam. They don't dream of "inventions" or "new technology". They dream of screwing the American middle class for a few easy bucks. Most, if not all, Republicans see themselves as "millionaires" without funds. But still "millionaires". They just want their money protected so when they do get it, they get to keep it.

The 300x is true. The 600x is not true and over 500x was only true during the tech bubble.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

 

[rightwinger]

Conservatives on this site (and others) love to quote the statistic that says 40% of the income tax revenues come from the richest 1% of Americans. This statistic is true.

What these same posters ignore is that the top 1% of Americans control 40% of America's wealth. Seems to me that they pay exactly the percentage they should.

What is really shocking is that with 1% of Americans controlling 40% of the wealth we have a political party saying

"Thank you sir........would you like some more?"

 

[martybegan]

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

And since when in discussions such as these income tax does not usually refer to SS taxes the statement is true.

The difference is that when you pay into social security you are expecting a specifc benefit, your pension when you hit age X. When you pay your Federal Income Tax you are then paying for the government itself, not something defined that you "get back" later on.

People also forget that the actual SS tax is DOUBLE what you pay, the other half being paid by your employer, unless you are self employed (then you pay it all). It isnt the fault of those who paid into the system that the goverment has raided that money for general use by investing it all in government bonds.

 

[8537]

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

FICA is a tax on income. In any normal use of the english language, a tax on income is an income tax.

But again, if the right used such plain and simple english they'd lose claim on the "50% pay no taxes!" meme. So they create convoluted, twisting phrases that help them keep their constituents ignorant.

 

[Cuyo]

In discussions like these when one mentions income tax one is most often referring to the taxes taken from salary that are NOT SS and medicare.

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

And when basic business accounting points out that the employees really pay ALL of the 15+% FICA/Medcare/Medicaid tax, the meme about "the employer pays half" is exposed as a lie.

Talk about your regressive taxation.

What's the purpose of such semantics? One could as easily state that the employer pays it all, and pays the employee less to compensate. Bottom line remains the same. Employee walks away with the same money no matter which way you choose to state it.

 

[Cuyo]

That's just because if rightwingers admit that FICA is an income tax, the meme about "half the people don't pay any taxes" is exposed as a lie.

It was "....don't pay income taxes"

And since when in discussions such as these income tax does not usually refer to SS taxes the statement is true.

The difference is that when you pay into social security you are expecting a specifc benefit, your pension when you hit age X. When you pay your Federal Income Tax you are then paying for the government itself, not something defined that you "get back" later on.

People also forget that the actual SS tax is DOUBLE what you pay, the other half being paid by your employer, unless you are self employed (then you pay it all). It isnt the fault of those who paid into the system that the goverment has raided that money for general use by investing it all in government bonds.

They were right to invest it. They were wrong to run massive deficits. Two completely separate issues.

 

[DiamondDave]

Lets pay a flat tax, to treat all equal.

That's not equal by a long shot.

That's just simple.

VASTLY different.

Flat out, 100% WRONG

It is a perfect example of equal treatment by government... unlike the punitive, complicated, and corrupt 'progressive' tax system