Why Health Care Is So Expensive In The U.S.A.

[JBeukema]

image from Medical Billing and Coding Certification Training Schools Online

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Interesting graph, they hit the spot on a lot of issues, but missed a very important aspect of the "doctors make too much money" - the fact is most countries also provide free or at least much cheaper higher education than the United States, so doctors do not incur the massive amounts of education debt and therefore don't command such a high pay. In fact, in most places you don't need to become a doctor after getting a bachelor's degree - you can go into medicine straight out of high school if your grades are good enough, eliminating another barrier to entry.

I would say that Malpractice costs do make a difference, I mean, 2% might not seem like much but everything counts when talking about so many billions. The real impact of it is that it imparts fear on doctors that encourages "preventive medicine" when it is unnecessary, escalating costs indirectly.

The last and most obvious thing though, is the fact that the government (Medicare/Medicaid) refuses to use its enormous buying power to negotiate better prices with pharmaceutical companies, a practice common virtually in every other industrialized country. Why? Because it would hurt Pharma's profits, and most people who make health care policy in the US work, have worked, or hope to work in one of those companies.

The overhead is the other main point, but considering that a public option is off the table because it's "socialism" (how it's more 'socialistic' than social security, public education, public investment in infrastructure, I'll never know), then those overhead costs are pretty much here to stay.

 

[dblack]

This is interesting and makes some excellent points. The one thing I would add and/or modify:

I would agree completely with the point made "doctors charge more because they can" - and I agree that it's at the core of runaway health care inflation. The important question is, why is this the case?

The chart implies this is because of a lack of price regulation. But that's the case with the entirety of goods and services in a free market economy. Nearly every other industry is kept in check by consumer demand for lower prices - and that is where our health care market is broken.

By pushing everyone into low-deductible, full coverage health insurance plans, we've created a consumer demand with virtual no incentive for lower prices. Once you are 'in' on the insurance game, your incentives are, in fact, the opposite. After a (relatively) small deductible is paid, there is every incentive to choose the higher priced alternative at every decision point. That can't not create inflation.

That's the cruel irony of pretty much every proposal put forward to deal out-of-control health care prices. Nearly all of them are preoccupied with financing more insurance coverage, which will only make the health care inflation problem worse. What we need is less insurance, not more. Insurance makes sense as a hedge against risk, as a way to deal with unforeseen calamities. But it's an irrational way to deal with day-to-day health care expenses.

 

[Mr Objective]

US health care is corporate health care. The best answer for why Americans pay 3 times the world average for third world quality health is unbridled corporate greed.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Can you imagine the budgetary cluster-fuck that this country would be in if we paid teachers the same way we pay doctors, per student, per test?

Boggles the mind how stupid we must look from space sometimes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

US health care is corporate health care. The best answer for why Americans pay 3 times the world average for third world quality health is unbridled corporate greed.

Third-world quality care? Really? You're seriously going to claim that? When was the last time YOU were even IN a third-world country? Which third-world country do YOU go to for your healthcare?

Fucktard.

 

[AVG-JOE]

This is interesting and makes some excellent points. The one thing I would add and/or modify:

I would agree completely with the point made "doctors charge more because they can" - and I agree that it's at the core of runaway health care inflation. The important question is, why is this the case?

The chart implies this is because of a lack of price regulation. But that's the case with the entirety of goods and services in a free market economy. Nearly every other industry is kept in check by consumer demand for lower prices - and that is where our health care market is broken.

By pushing everyone into low-deductible, full coverage health insurance plans, we've created a consumer demand with virtual no incentive for lower prices. Once you are 'in' on the insurance game, your incentives are, in fact, the opposite. After a (relatively) small deductible is paid, there is every incentive to choose the higher priced alternative at every decision point. That can't not create inflation.

That's the cruel irony of pretty much every proposal put forward to deal out-of-control health care prices. Nearly all of them are preoccupied with financing more insurance coverage, which will only make the health care inflation problem worse. What we need is less insurance, not more. Insurance makes sense as a hedge against risk, as a way to deal with unforeseen calamities. But it's an irrational way to deal with day-to-day health care expenses.

Doctors can charge what they charge because the people paying the bill are not the ones receiving the service.

Health care in America costs more because your health care dollar has to not only put fancy cars in the driveways of a doctor and an anesthesiologist for the OUTSTANDING way they took care of your boo-boo, but those same health care dollars are also responsible for putting something nice in the garages of 5 to 7 insurance executives for the OUTSTANDING ways they collected your premiums and denied your claim.

 

[dblack]

Doctors can charge what they charge because the people paying the bill are not the ones receiving the service.

Health care in America costs more because your health care dollar has to not only put fancy cars in the driveways of a doctor and an anesthesiologist for the OUTSTANDING way they took care of your boo-boo, but those same health care dollars are also responsible for putting something nice in the garages of 5 to 7 insurance executives for the OUTSTANDING ways they collected your premiums and denied your claim.

Agreed. But it doesn't have to be that way. Insurance is a lot like really expensive credit. It's probably a good idea to have access to some in case you really need it. But it's foolish to use for everyday expenses. People are finally starting to realize that too much insurance is too expensive and doesn't pay off. And we're looking for better alternatives.

The insurance industry has seen the writing on the wall. They know the gig is up, and that's why they've finally acquiesced to phony 'reform'. What they're really doing is seeking a 'partnership' with government - essentially using the state to 'mandate' themselves perpetual customers. It's truly sickening.

 

[Mr Objective]

US health care is corporate health care. The best answer for why Americans pay 3 times the world average for third world quality health is unbridled corporate greed.

Third-world quality care? Really? You're seriously going to claim that? When was the last time YOU were even IN a third-world country? Which third-world country do YOU go to for your healthcare?

Fucktard.

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm the best example of why our system costs so much. I'm 50 something, been paying for health insurance off and on since about 25. Right now I'm 2 years into my current employers health care plan and the total cost to me, including my employers contribution is about $310 PER MONTH.

Over the last 26 months I've spent over $8,000 on 'health care' and I've yet to meet a doctor in my new home state of FL.

I wouldn't mind dumping all that money into a system that will be there for me when I'm 65, a little more fragile, and looking to finally meet a doc or two on a professional basis. By that time, ass-u-me-ing no drastic changes, I'll have poured over $100,000 into the "health-care" system and will hopefully have had few claims if any that exceed my yearly deductible. At that point in time, when I'm 65, I'll be looking for services and filing claims for payment by my health insurance carrier.

Well when I'm 65, that's going to be Medicare.

You, The Taxpayer will get my medical bills, and the 100,000 'health-care dollars' that I pre paid into the system since my working career began in my 20's will be spent by an insurance executive on a marketing trip to Aruba.

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Doctors can charge what they charge because the people paying the bill are not the ones receiving the service.

Health care in America costs more because your health care dollar has to not only put fancy cars in the driveways of a doctor and an anesthesiologist for the OUTSTANDING way they took care of your boo-boo, but those same health care dollars are also responsible for putting something nice in the garages of 5 to 7 insurance executives for the OUTSTANDING ways they collected your premiums and denied your claim.

Agreed. But it doesn't have to be that way. Insurance is a lot like really expensive credit. It's probably a good idea to have access to some in case you really need it. But it's foolish to use for everyday expenses. People are finally starting to realize that too much insurance is too expensive and doesn't pay off. And we're looking for better alternatives.

The insurance industry has seen the writing on the wall. They know the gig is up, and that's why they've finally acquiesced to phony 'reform'. What they're really doing is seeking a 'partnership' with government - essentially using the state to 'mandate' themselves perpetual customers. It's truly sickening.

You seem to have a handle on the truth in spite of the advertising. Kudos.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Interesting graph, they hit the spot on a lot of issues, but missed a very important aspect of the "doctors make too much money" - the fact is most countries also provide free or at least much cheaper higher education than the United States, so doctors do not incur the massive amounts of education debt and therefore don't command such a high pay. In fact, in most places you don't need to become a doctor after getting a bachelor's degree - you can go into medicine straight out of high school if your grades are good enough, eliminating another barrier to entry.

I would say that Malpractice costs do make a difference, I mean, 2% might not seem like much but everything counts when talking about so many billions. The real impact of it is that it imparts fear on doctors that encourages "preventive medicine" when it is unnecessary, escalating costs indirectly.

The last and most obvious thing though, is the fact that the government (Medicare/Medicaid) refuses to use its enormous buying power to negotiate better prices with pharmaceutical companies, a practice common virtually in every other industrialized country. Why? Because it would hurt Pharma's profits, and most people who make health care policy in the US work, have worked, or hope to work in one of those companies.

The overhead is the other main point, but considering that a public option is off the table because it's "socialism" (how it's more 'socialistic' than social security, public education, public investment in infrastructure, I'll never know), then those overhead costs are pretty much here to stay.

Very important point in this discussion - just because doctors have a powerful enough union and lobby to make them well paid pawns of the Health Care Industry doesn't make them any less pawns.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Doctors can charge what they charge because the people paying the bill are not the ones receiving the service.

Health care in America costs more because your health care dollar has to not only put fancy cars in the driveways of a doctor and an anesthesiologist for the OUTSTANDING way they took care of your boo-boo, but those same health care dollars are also responsible for putting something nice in the garages of 5 to 7 insurance executives for the OUTSTANDING ways they collected your premiums and denied your claim.

Agreed. But it doesn't have to be that way. Insurance is a lot like really expensive credit. It's probably a good idea to have access to some in case you really need it. But it's foolish to use for everyday expenses. People are finally starting to realize that too much insurance is too expensive and doesn't pay off. And we're looking for better alternatives.

The insurance industry has seen the writing on the wall. They know the gig is up, and that's why they've finally acquiesced to phony 'reform'. What they're really doing is seeking a 'partnership' with government - essentially using the state to 'mandate' themselves perpetual customers. It's truly sickening.

I would LOVE to be dumping my $310 per month into Medicare and have them pick up 80% of my health care expenditures. If I'm responsible for 20%, I won't go screaming to the ER for every hang nail and if Medicare picks up 80% of a truly bad day I won't end up homeless AND sick.

Not to mention that when I'm 65, and start seeing a doc more regularly, I won't feel so guilty about hitting up that tax-payer supported program for my 80%.

 

[Cecilie1200]

US health care is corporate health care. The best answer for why Americans pay 3 times the world average for third world quality health is unbridled corporate greed.

Third-world quality care? Really? You're seriously going to claim that? When was the last time YOU were even IN a third-world country? Which third-world country do YOU go to for your healthcare?

Fucktard.

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

When I look at the World Health Organization findings (WARNING: THEY CONTAIN VERY FEW FACTS, AND LIBERALS IGNORE THOSE), I see a giant, reeking pile of dog turds, otherwise known as "propaganda". But then, I - apparently unlike you - am capable of actually researching and getting to the reality of things, rather than just swallowing whatever the media feeds me.

The only levels on which the US has comparable or worse healthcare to the third world, according to your precious WHO report (which I highly doubt you have ever actually read yourself), is in its lack of widespread socialism. In those areas that actually MATTER to sane, intelligent people and to the real issues of healthcare - such as survival rates from cancer, since you mention it - the US ranks extremely high. I for one am not going to lose sleep about our "abysmal" distribution of socialism. How about you?

Meanwhile, why don't you answer the questions? What third-world countries have YOU personally visited, and which ones do YOU go to for healthcare?

 

[Mr Objective]

Third-world quality care? Really? You're seriously going to claim that? When was the last time YOU were even IN a third-world country? Which third-world country do YOU go to for your healthcare?

Fucktard.

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

When I look at the World Health Organization findings (WARNING: THEY CONTAIN VERY FEW FACTS, AND LIBERALS IGNORE THOSE), I see a giant, reeking pile of dog turds, otherwise known as "propaganda". But then, I - apparently unlike you - am capable of actually researching and getting to the reality of things, rather than just swallowing whatever the media feeds me.

The only levels on which the US has comparable or worse healthcare to the third world, according to your precious WHO report (which I highly doubt you have ever actually read yourself), is in its lack of widespread socialism. In those areas that actually MATTER to sane, intelligent people and to the real issues of healthcare - such as survival rates from cancer, since you mention it - the US ranks extremely high. I for one am not going to lose sleep about our "abysmal" distribution of socialism. How about you?

Meanwhile, why don't you answer the questions? What third-world countries have YOU personally visited, and which ones do YOU go to for healthcare?

I have read it many times.

My personal visits would be anecdotal and for you to even ask that in the face of well researched data by unbiased experts tells me that you hate facts and truth and spin like a Fox News Nazi.

 

[shintao]

Doctors can charge what they charge because the people paying the bill are not the ones receiving the service.

Health care in America costs more because your health care dollar has to not only put fancy cars in the driveways of a doctor and an anesthesiologist for the OUTSTANDING way they took care of your boo-boo, but those same health care dollars are also responsible for putting something nice in the garages of 5 to 7 insurance executives for the OUTSTANDING ways they collected your premiums and denied your claim.

Agreed. But it doesn't have to be that way. Insurance is a lot like really expensive credit. It's probably a good idea to have access to some in case you really need it. But it's foolish to use for everyday expenses. People are finally starting to realize that too much insurance is too expensive and doesn't pay off. And we're looking for better alternatives.

The insurance industry has seen the writing on the wall. They know the gig is up, and that's why they've finally acquiesced to phony 'reform'. What they're really doing is seeking a 'partnership' with government - essentially using the state to 'mandate' themselves perpetual customers. It's truly sickening.

I would LOVE to be dumping my $310 per month into Medicare and have them pick up 80% of my health care expenditures. If I'm responsible for 20%, I won't go screaming to the ER for every hang nail and if Medicare picks up 80% of a truly bad day I won't end up homeless AND sick.

Not to mention that when I'm 65, and start seeing a doc more regularly, I won't feel so guilty about hitting up that tax-payer supported program for my 80%.

The idea that you would develop hangnail problems if the public was paying your way is preposterous. I have a 100% health care from the VA, and the last place I want to be is sitting in a clinic or ER for any treatment. I think the idea is mythical, drempt up by some of those insurance CEOs we are raving about. Surely you have more to do than have a finger up your ass and being told to cough.

 

[Cecilie1200]

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

When I look at the World Health Organization findings (WARNING: THEY CONTAIN VERY FEW FACTS, AND LIBERALS IGNORE THOSE), I see a giant, reeking pile of dog turds, otherwise known as "propaganda". But then, I - apparently unlike you - am capable of actually researching and getting to the reality of things, rather than just swallowing whatever the media feeds me.

The only levels on which the US has comparable or worse healthcare to the third world, according to your precious WHO report (which I highly doubt you have ever actually read yourself), is in its lack of widespread socialism. In those areas that actually MATTER to sane, intelligent people and to the real issues of healthcare - such as survival rates from cancer, since you mention it - the US ranks extremely high. I for one am not going to lose sleep about our "abysmal" distribution of socialism. How about you?

Meanwhile, why don't you answer the questions? What third-world countries have YOU personally visited, and which ones do YOU go to for healthcare?

I have read it many times.

My personal visits would be anecdotal and for you to even ask that in the face of well researched data by unbiased experts tells me that you hate facts and truth and spin like a Fox News Nazi.

And still I wait for answers in vain, receiving only lame dodges.

Who are these "unbiased experts" with "well-researched data"? I KNOW you're not talking about the World Health Organization. Even YOU cannot possibly be THAT pig-stupid and willfully gullible.

So let's talk about some facts, rather than "Oh, I've read it all, and done it all, and I'm JUST too weary to bother talking about it", which only a newbie like you would try around here.

1) How was the US's ranking of 37 arrived at? What were the determining factors? (You should know this, since you "have read it many times".)

2) How were the criteria weighted? Which ones counted for a larger part of the score?

3) How did the United States rank on each of the individual criterion?

4) How much does the vaunted WHO take into account differences in culture and lifestyle and the effect they can have on many of their criteria?

I know the answers to all of these questions, because I've not only read WHO's catbox liner of a report, I've also researched it. How about you? Think you can grow a pair and answer a question for once, nancyboy?

 

[shintao]

Third-world quality care? Really? You're seriously going to claim that? When was the last time YOU were even IN a third-world country? Which third-world country do YOU go to for your healthcare?

Fucktard.

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

When I look at the World Health Organization findings (WARNING: THEY CONTAIN VERY FEW FACTS, AND LIBERALS IGNORE THOSE), I see a giant, reeking pile of dog turds, otherwise known as "propaganda". But then, I - apparently unlike you - am capable of actually researching and getting to the reality of things, rather than just swallowing whatever the media feeds me.

The only levels on which the US has comparable or worse healthcare to the third world, according to your precious WHO report (which I highly doubt you have ever actually read yourself), is in its lack of widespread socialism. In those areas that actually MATTER to sane, intelligent people and to the real issues of healthcare - such as survival rates from cancer, since you mention it - the US ranks extremely high. I for one am not going to lose sleep about our "abysmal" distribution of socialism. How about you?

Meanwhile, why don't you answer the questions? What third-world countries have YOU personally visited, and which ones do YOU go to for healthcare?

You must be into anal care, because you are making an ass of yourself here. I can assume if you haven't personally taken it up the ass, you have no right to debate gay issues. He didn't say he had been there, and he wouldn't need to have been there to discuss intelligently on the subject. Go bake some biscuits & STFU.

 

[Cecilie1200]

When you look at the World Health Organization finding (WARNING THEY CONTAIN FACTS AND NEO CONS HATE FACT) on many levels US health care is third world quality. Dollar for dollar US health care is the worst in the world.

So retard why don't tell us what the cost per capita for US health care is and where the US ranks. Them tell us what the next most expensive country is and where they are ranked. Then get cancer.

When I look at the World Health Organization findings (WARNING: THEY CONTAIN VERY FEW FACTS, AND LIBERALS IGNORE THOSE), I see a giant, reeking pile of dog turds, otherwise known as "propaganda". But then, I - apparently unlike you - am capable of actually researching and getting to the reality of things, rather than just swallowing whatever the media feeds me.

The only levels on which the US has comparable or worse healthcare to the third world, according to your precious WHO report (which I highly doubt you have ever actually read yourself), is in its lack of widespread socialism. In those areas that actually MATTER to sane, intelligent people and to the real issues of healthcare - such as survival rates from cancer, since you mention it - the US ranks extremely high. I for one am not going to lose sleep about our "abysmal" distribution of socialism. How about you?

Meanwhile, why don't you answer the questions? What third-world countries have YOU personally visited, and which ones do YOU go to for healthcare?

You must be into anal care, because you are making an ass of yourself here. I can assume if you haven't personally taken it up the ass, you have no right to debate gay issues. He didn't say he had been there, and he wouldn't need to have been there to discuss intelligently on the subject. Go bake some biscuits & STFU.

Well, we all know how much I value YOUR opinion. If you have nothing to contribute to the conversation besides telling me the "horrible" news that someone I wouldn't piss on if he were on fire doesn't like what I say (Oh, NOOOO!!!), may I suggest you go do whatever it is you do for fun (please keep it to yourself) and shut the fuck up?

If I want to hear from you, rest assured, I'll wave a Snausage over your nose.

 

[Mr Objective]

For the liars who knock the WHO report on the rank of US health care don't have the balls to post it and explain why they think it is not fair.