Why Freedom Caucus Needs To Learn Senate Rules to Ever Actually repeal Obamacare

[JimBowie1958]

This is a great little article that explains most of the convoluted Senate rules regarding WHY Ryan framed the AHCA the way he did. He still should have tried to be more open about the bill, but he was being very careful to use the Reconciliation rules to not need 60 votes in the Senate.

Conservatives must learn Senate rules or Obamacare will never be repealed.

And, as I have stated earlier there is NOTHING in the AHCA that Conservatives should have disagreed with if they would have actually taken the time to READ it. Every one of them has an opinion of it but very few if any can honestly say they actually READ it. You can read my assessment of the incredible RELIEF we could have provided millions of Americans just by passing “Phase one” here. Instead, we’re all now STUCK with Obamacare until at least 2019 because we can only use the Budget reconciliation process once each fiscal year and our current fiscal year ends in May. So, that means even if we COULD get the “Freedom Caucus” to work with us and pass a Budget Reconcilation bill in 2018, we will get NO relief from Obamacare now until 2019. Unless of course we can convince 8 Democrat Senators to vote with us to reach the 60 vote threshold in the U.S. Senate....

Why was Senator Cruz forced to follow the Byrd Rule via Budget Reconciliation in 2015? Because a FULL repeal vote would have required 60 votes in the U.S. Senate under Rule 22 which would require 8 senate Democrat votes which we DID NOT HAVE THEN and we DO NOT HAVE NOW. This was the necessity of following the same rules in our recent attempt (foiled by the “Freedom Caucus”) to pass the American Health Care Act....

The other bogus argument being made by Conservatives is that we can just “use the Nuclear Option” to “shove it through“. This is NOT possible because the “Nuclear Option” used most recently by Harry Reid to shove through former President Obama’s judicial appointees IS NOT USED to pass LEGISLATION. A SEPARATE senate rule was created to pass legislation passed with only a 51 vote simple majority. It’s called the Byrd Rule (mentioned earlier) which is how we were going to attempt to pass the American Health Care act. This brings us to the next fantasy “well let’s just change the Senate rules then!” Changing a Senate rule requires 67 votes which would require 15 Democrat votes in the Senate which we also DO NOT HAVE.

And lastly, the total fantasy argument being made which says Mitch McConnell should just render the 60 vote majority rule or the 67 vote rule to change Senate rules “unconstitutional” which according to this fantasy requires only a simple majority vote (at least 51 Republican senators). In order to make this fantasy a reality, those who propose it actually BELIEVE that we would somehow get the support of John McCain and his life partner Lindsey, Jeff Flake, Olympia Snow, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Shelley Moore Capito and Cory Gardner (the last four want to KEEP Medicaid expansion under Obamacare).​

 

[JimBowie1958]

What was good in the AHCA?

What parts of the American Health Care Act did Conservatives disagree with?

1.) Repealing the Individual Mandate which requires those who do not purchase overpriced Obamacare health insurance to pay a penalty to the IRS.
2.) Repealing the Employer Mandate so that employers can once again offer FULL TIME jobs instead of restricting their job applicants to 29.5 hours in order to avoid paying for overpriced Obamacare health insurance.
3.) Repealing the Obamacare subsidies, which would be the first time in U.S. history that we actually repealed an entitlement.
4.) Placing per capita caps on Medicaid enrollees.
5.) Block granting Medicaid to the states
6.) Reducing the deficit.
7.) Cutting spending by $1.2 trillion.
8.) Repealing $600 billion in Obamacare TAXES.
9.) Re-creating state High Risk Health insurance pools (which is how health insurance risk in the individual marketplace it was managed for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law). By doing so we would have once again removed the sickest 5% (responsible for 50% of costs) from the healthy pool in order to once again lower premiums for those who are healthy. Remember how much lower health insurance premiums were BEFORE Obamacare?
10.) Granting $100 billion over 9 years to the states to ensure that every state has a well funded high risk health insurance pool so that the 5% who are the sickest are guaranteed coverage. Keep in mind that whilst that may seem like a lot of money, it is MUCH less than the $56 billion we will spend just THIS YEAR on Obamacare subsidies.
11.) Repealing “Community Rating” so that young people pay much less for health insurance than they do now, thereby reincentivizing them to REENTER the health insurance pool and lower costs for everyone.
12.) Providing tax CREDITS (not “entitlements”) so that you can KEEP more of your OWN money so that health insurance costs less for you and your family. A tax CREDIT is NOT an “entitlement”. It just means you pay less to the IRS so you keep more of your own money to spend on health insurance. Is a CHILD tax CREDIT an ‘entitlement’?
13.) A one year 30% underwriting load applied to those who do not keep consistent health insurance coverage and instead wait until they are sick to buy health insurance. These “system gamers” increasing premiums for everyone. This also was how risk was managed in the individual health insurance market for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law.​

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

They got hung up on one or two points. One of them quit the caucus because he was tired of the obstruction.
But the op is correct, a full repeal with a full replace will never happen because of the rules & the democrats.

 

[Boss]

What was good in the AHCA?

What parts of the American Health Care Act did Conservatives disagree with?

1.) Repealing the Individual Mandate which requires those who do not purchase overpriced Obamacare health insurance to pay a penalty to the IRS.
2.) Repealing the Employer Mandate so that employers can once again offer FULL TIME jobs instead of restricting their job applicants to 29.5 hours in order to avoid paying for overpriced Obamacare health insurance.
3.) Repealing the Obamacare subsidies, which would be the first time in U.S. history that we actually repealed an entitlement.
4.) Placing per capita caps on Medicaid enrollees.
5.) Block granting Medicaid to the states
6.) Reducing the deficit.
7.) Cutting spending by $1.2 trillion.
8.) Repealing $600 billion in Obamacare TAXES.
9.) Re-creating state High Risk Health insurance pools (which is how health insurance risk in the individual marketplace it was managed for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law). By doing so we would have once again removed the sickest 5% (responsible for 50% of costs) from the healthy pool in order to once again lower premiums for those who are healthy. Remember how much lower health insurance premiums were BEFORE Obamacare?
10.) Granting $100 billion over 9 years to the states to ensure that every state has a well funded high risk health insurance pool so that the 5% who are the sickest are guaranteed coverage. Keep in mind that whilst that may seem like a lot of money, it is MUCH less than the $56 billion we will spend just THIS YEAR on Obamacare subsidies.
11.) Repealing “Community Rating” so that young people pay much less for health insurance than they do now, thereby reincentivizing them to REENTER the health insurance pool and lower costs for everyone.
12.) Providing tax CREDITS (not “entitlements”) so that you can KEEP more of your OWN money so that health insurance costs less for you and your family. A tax CREDIT is NOT an “entitlement”. It just means you pay less to the IRS so you keep more of your own money to spend on health insurance. Is a CHILD tax CREDIT an ‘entitlement’?
13.) A one year 30% underwriting load applied to those who do not keep consistent health insurance coverage and instead wait until they are sick to buy health insurance. These “system gamers” increasing premiums for everyone. This also was how risk was managed in the individual health insurance market for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law.​

The problem here is, you are trying to make a sales pitch after the store has closed and the customers have all gone home. It's kind of pointless now. Had Paul Ryan brought this plan out in 2010 or 2012, and well-minded Republicans such as yourself would've been giving your sales pitch since then, perhaps you would have sold it. But that wasn't done. And now, AFTER the fact, you want to make a case for this bill that has been pulled and won't be back again. This begs the question, what is the motivation for this spectacular job of presenting this now?

Let me explain why you're doing this.

It's about perception. You want to now present this bill as a perfectly reasonable and practical bill that would've replaced Obamacare with something everybody wanted and those mean old Conservatives in the Freedom Caucus just wouldn't budge! In other words, this is politics. This is the Establishment Elite playing their typical game of attacking Conservatives as the bad guys for standing up to Marxist Leftists. Conservatives once again make a principled stand and the Establishment is angry that they wouldn't capitulate to please the Left.... and what's so incredibly ironic is, the Democrats weren't going to give you a single vote on ANYTHING. Establishment idiots are bound and determined to drag the party to the Left and there is nothing there! You throw away your principles and everything you stand for and get NOTHING!

 

[JimBowie1958]

The problem here is, you are trying to make a sales pitch after the store has closed and the customers have all gone home. It's kind of pointless now. Had Paul Ryan brought this plan out in 2010 or 2012, and well-minded Republicans such as yourself would've been giving your sales pitch since then, perhaps you would have sold it. But that wasn't done. And now, AFTER the fact, you want to make a case for this bill that has been pulled and won't be back again. This begs the question, what is the motivation for this spectacular job of presenting this now?

Let me explain why you're doing this.

It's about perception. You want to now present this bill as a perfectly reasonable and practical bill that would've replaced Obamacare with something everybody wanted and those mean old Conservatives in the Freedom Caucus just wouldn't budge! In other words, this is politics. This is the Establishment Elite playing their typical game of attacking Conservatives as the bad guys for standing up to Marxist Leftists. Conservatives once again make a principled stand and the Establishment is angry that they wouldn't capitulate to please the Left.... and what's so incredible is, the Democrats weren't going to give you a single vote on ANYTHING. Establishment idiots are bound and determined to drag the party to the Left and there is nothing there! You throw away your principles and everything you stand for and get NOTHING!

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

 

[Boss]

The problem here is, you are trying to make a sales pitch after the store has closed and the customers have all gone home. It's kind of pointless now. Had Paul Ryan brought this plan out in 2010 or 2012, and well-minded Republicans such as yourself would've been giving your sales pitch since then, perhaps you would have sold it. But that wasn't done. And now, AFTER the fact, you want to make a case for this bill that has been pulled and won't be back again. This begs the question, what is the motivation for this spectacular job of presenting this now?

Let me explain why you're doing this.

It's about perception. You want to now present this bill as a perfectly reasonable and practical bill that would've replaced Obamacare with something everybody wanted and those mean old Conservatives in the Freedom Caucus just wouldn't budge! In other words, this is politics. This is the Establishment Elite playing their typical game of attacking Conservatives as the bad guys for standing up to Marxist Leftists. Conservatives once again make a principled stand and the Establishment is angry that they wouldn't capitulate to please the Left.... and what's so incredible is, the Democrats weren't going to give you a single vote on ANYTHING. Establishment idiots are bound and determined to drag the party to the Left and there is nothing there! You throw away your principles and everything you stand for and get NOTHING!

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

Wanna bet?

I say it will be considered for a vote by the end of the year and proposed in at least one of the two houses of our federal Congress.

 

[Boss]

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

Wanna bet?

I say it will be considered for a vote by the end of the year and proposed in at least one of the two houses of our federal Congress.

I'll bet any amount you'd like to wager that THIS bill will never be brought back again. There may be ANOTHER bill that is similar to this... that's possible... but THIS bill is done. They didn't have the votes, they rushed this thing out and they thought they could strong-arm and intimidate their way to a victory. It din't work. So now, the plan is to do as much damage to Conservatives as possible and hope to sway public opinion for another bill in the future which they'll probably attempt to get Democrat support for.

Trump was supposed to DRAIN the swamp... he's now neck deep in it with some of the worst swamp monsters. The Establishment GOP has won again. All of you who voted for Trump got Jeb Bush with a pair of brass balls. Now maybe that was better than Hillary because we'd be discussing "single payer" right now... but that's probably what we're going to eventually get anyway because the Establishment RINOs would rather capitulate to the left than to work with Conservatives.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

Wanna bet?

I say it will be considered for a vote by the end of the year and proposed in at least one of the two houses of our federal Congress.

I'll bet any amount you'd like to wager that THIS bill will never be brought back again. There may be ANOTHER bill that is similar to this... that's possible... but THIS bill is done. They didn't have the votes, they rushed this thing out and they thought they could strong-arm and intimidate their way to a victory. It din't work. So now, the plan is to do as much damage to Conservatives as possible and hope to sway public opinion for another bill in the future which they'll probably attempt to get Democrat support for.

Trump was supposed to DRAIN the swamp... he's now neck deep in it with some of the worst swamp monsters. The Establishment GOP has won again. All of you who voted for Trump got Jeb Bush with a pair of brass balls. Now maybe that was better than Hillary because we'd be discussing "single payer" right now... but that's probably what we're going to eventually get anyway because the Establishment RINOs would rather capitulate to the left than to work with Conservatives.

They cannot bring back another Reconciliation bill until 2019. There is ZERO chance of passing a regular bill unless you can get at least 10 Dimmocrat Senators to sign on as well.

So, since Ryan and Trump have not as yet completely given up on R&R Obamacare this year, they will have to modify the recent Reconciliation bill and resubmit.

Comprende?

 

[Boss]

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

Wanna bet?

I say it will be considered for a vote by the end of the year and proposed in at least one of the two houses of our federal Congress.

I'll bet any amount you'd like to wager that THIS bill will never be brought back again. There may be ANOTHER bill that is similar to this... that's possible... but THIS bill is done. They didn't have the votes, they rushed this thing out and they thought they could strong-arm and intimidate their way to a victory. It din't work. So now, the plan is to do as much damage to Conservatives as possible and hope to sway public opinion for another bill in the future which they'll probably attempt to get Democrat support for.

Trump was supposed to DRAIN the swamp... he's now neck deep in it with some of the worst swamp monsters. The Establishment GOP has won again. All of you who voted for Trump got Jeb Bush with a pair of brass balls. Now maybe that was better than Hillary because we'd be discussing "single payer" right now... but that's probably what we're going to eventually get anyway because the Establishment RINOs would rather capitulate to the left than to work with Conservatives.

They cannot bring back another Reconciliation bill until 2019. There is ZERO chance of passing a regular bill unless you can get at least 10 Dimmocrat Senators to sign on as well.

So, since Ryan and Trump have not as yet completely given up on R&R Obamacare this year, they will have to modify the recent Reconciliation bill and resubmit.

Comprende?

Here's what I comprende....

I listened to Paul Ryan tell me in 2015, after Obama refused to sign the bill they passed to repeal Obamacare, that IF we gave them the white house, they would send this bill back to the republican president who would sign it and Obamacare would end. He specifically said this could be done through reconciliation and it was no problem then. All these Senate rules and parliamentarian procedures have suddenly sprang up out of nowhere to explain why a majority Republican House and Senate can't repeal Obamacare WITH a fucking Republican in the White House!

I am NOT BUYING THIS SHIT! Neither are millions of Conservatives who reluctantly supported Trump. We've sat back and watched in disbelief as the narrative has morphed from "repeal Obamacare" to "repeal and replace" to "repeal and repair" and finally, to "refurbish and reinforce!" That's NOT what we voted for OR what Paul Ryan said he would do.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I listened to Paul Ryan tell me in 2015, after Obama refused to sign the bill they passed to repeal Obamacare, that IF we gave them the white house, they would send this bill back to the republican president who would sign it and Obamacare would end. He specifically said this could be done through reconciliation and it was no problem then. All these Senate rules and parliamentarian procedures have suddenly sprang up out of nowhere to explain why a majority Republican House and Senate can't repeal Obamacare WITH a fucking Republican in the White House!

I am NOT BUYING THIS SHIT! Neither are millions of Conservatives who reluctantly supported Trump. We've sat back and watched in disbelief as the narrative has morphed from "repeal Obamacare" to "repeal and replace" to "repeal and repair" and finally, to "refurbish and reinforce!" That's NOT what we voted for OR what Paul Ryan said he would do.

Yeah, I hear you.

These guys are so good at pratfalls it is hard to tell if it is real incompetence or planned incompetence.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, since Ryan withdrew the bill it can be brought back for a vote later this year.

Trust me... THIS bill is dead.

Ahem, you were saying?

 

[Slashsnake]

The problem here is, you are trying to make a sales pitch after the store has closed and the customers have all gone home. It's kind of pointless now. Had Paul Ryan brought this plan out in 2010 or 2012, and well-minded Republicans such as yourself would've been giving your sales pitch since then, perhaps you would have sold it. But that wasn't done. And now, AFTER the fact, you want to make a case for this bill that has been pulled and won't be back again. This begs the question, what is the motivation for this spectacular job of presenting this now?

Let me explain why you're doing this.

It's about perception. You want to now present this bill as a perfectly reasonable and practical bill that would've replaced Obamacare with something everybody wanted and those mean old Conservatives in the Freedom Caucus just wouldn't budge! In other words, this is politics. This is the Establishment Elite playing their typical game of attacking Conservatives as the bad guys for standing up to Marxist Leftists. Conservatives once again make a principled stand and the Establishment is angry that they wouldn't capitulate to please the Left.... and what's so incredibly ironic is, the Democrats weren't going to give you a single vote on ANYTHING. Establishment idiots are bound and determined to drag the party to the Left and there is nothing there! You throw away your principles and everything you stand for and get NOTHING!

Paul Ryan could've proposed this law in 2010 or 2012 but Obummer would have never had signed this into law simply because he's an imbecile who should've ran the country better than he did.