Why does the right fear public healthcare?

[MajikMyst]

I am still waiting for one of you neotards to explain to me why the U.S. is dead last in the world for preventable deaths..

Anyone?? Someone??

Why is France kicking our ass in healthcare??

Smart?? Your a racist!! Why is Obama unamerican? Unlike Bush, he was actually elected to office without running a smear campaign of lies..

None of you have given a single logical reason as to why public health is a bad thing.. If you all hate the government so much and fear it or don't trust it then move the fuck to another country!! Don't sit here and claim to be patrotic and then try to convince everyone how horrible the government is.. If you hate the converment so much then move to Iraq.. You won't have to worry about gun control laws either.. There would be no worries about abortion.. Think of it!! A perfect country for neotards!! Oh wait.. They are muslim.. Amazing what you all have in common..

You are an emotional cripple that needs to grow up. We don't hate our country, we love it. You probably love it too. We just disagree about this issue. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "racist" only makes you look like an immature and uneducated fool.

And yet you continue to fail at responding to my arguements.. If you love it so much then put up a good arguement and resond!! You can start by not taking what someone says out of context and twisting it's meaning..

 

[Zander]

I am still waiting for one of you neotards to explain to me why the U.S. is dead last in the world for preventable deaths..

Anyone?? Someone??

Why is France kicking our ass in healthcare??

Smart?? Your a racist!! Why is Obama unamerican? Unlike Bush, he was actually elected to office without running a smear campaign of lies..

None of you have given a single logical reason as to why public health is a bad thing.. If you all hate the government so much and fear it or don't trust it then move the fuck to another country!! Don't sit here and claim to be patrotic and then try to convince everyone how horrible the government is.. If you hate the converment so much then move to Iraq.. You won't have to worry about gun control laws either.. There would be no worries about abortion.. Think of it!! A perfect country for neotards!! Oh wait.. They are muslim.. Amazing what you all have in common..

You are an emotional cripple that needs to grow up. We don't hate our country, we love it. You probably love it too. We just disagree about this issue. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "racist" only makes you look like an immature and uneducated fool.

And yet you continue to fail at responding to my arguements.. If you love it so much then put up a good arguement and resond!! You can start by not taking what someone says out of context and twisting it's meaning..

I don't respond to be people that use expressions like "Neotard" or "rebuttlicans", sorry. I just can't take those types of people seriously. Send me a PM when you grow up and want to have a real conversation!

 

[MajikMyst]

My life & the life of one of my loved ones depends on NOT getting some beurocrat in Washington D.C. determining & making decisions on our health needs---

As far as why the majority of Americans do not trust a public option government run health care plan?

1. Social security is bankrupt
2. Medicare is bankrupt
3. Medicade is bankrupt
4. And the worst of the worst--Fannie/Freddie both federal government run programs in which our dear government decided to lower lending requirements--while co-signing our names to 50% of the mortgages in this country. This is GROUND ZERO for this current economic collapse & ALL bail-outs lead right back to Fannie/Freddie.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times

After all of this-- give me one good reason why anyone would trust the Federal Government with their health care?---

View attachment 8469

Hmmm.. FAnnie and freddie were not government run programs.. They are now since bush gave them billions in bailout money..

But lets put your lame arguement into perspective..

You don't trust the government to run your healthcare but Nuclear missiles are ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but our military is ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but the CIA is ok??

You're a retard!!

And other than a neotard poll.. Most people do want a public option by a large margin..

Poll: Public Option in Health Care Backed by American Majority

Three quarters of americans support a public option.. Poll taken Sept. 1, 2009.
Even 71% of republicans were found to favor it.. So what is your problem?

 

[del]

My life & the life of one of my loved ones depends on NOT getting some beurocrat in Washington D.C. determining & making decisions on our health needs---

As far as why the majority of Americans do not trust a public option government run health care plan?

1. Social security is bankrupt
2. Medicare is bankrupt
3. Medicade is bankrupt
4. And the worst of the worst--Fannie/Freddie both federal government run programs in which our dear government decided to lower lending requirements--while co-signing our names to 50% of the mortgages in this country. This is GROUND ZERO for this current economic collapse & ALL bail-outs lead right back to Fannie/Freddie.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times

After all of this-- give me one good reason why anyone would trust the Federal Government with their health care?---

View attachment 8469

Hmmm.. FAnnie and freddie were not government run programs.. They are now since bush gave them billions in bailout money..

But lets put your lame arguement into perspective..

You don't trust the government to run your healthcare but Nuclear missiles are ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but our military is ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but the CIA is ok??

You're a retard!!

And other than a neotard poll.. Most people do want a public option by a large margin..

Poll: Public Option in Health Care Backed by American Majority

Three quarters of americans support a public option.. Poll taken Sept. 1, 2009.
Even 71% of republicans were found to favor it.. So what is your problem?

can we torture more child witches now?
that was fun

 

[Smartt33]

I am still waiting for one of you neotards to explain to me why the U.S. is dead last in the world for preventable deaths..

Anyone?? Someone??

Why is France kicking our ass in healthcare??

Smart?? Your a racist!! Why is Obama unamerican? Unlike Bush, he was actually elected to office without running a smear campaign of lies..

None of you have given a single logical reason as to why public health is a bad thing.. If you all hate the government so much and fear it or don't trust it then move the fuck to another country!! Don't sit here and claim to be patrotic and then try to convince everyone how horrible the government is.. If you hate the converment so much then move to Iraq.. You won't have to worry about gun control laws either.. There would be no worries about abortion.. Think of it!! A perfect country for neotards!! Oh wait.. They are muslim.. Amazing what you all have in common..

You are an emotional cripple that needs to grow up. We don't hate our country, we love it. You probably love it too. We just disagree about this issue. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "racist" only makes you look like an immature and uneducated fool.

And yet you continue to fail at responding to my arguements.. If you love it so much then put up a good arguement and resond!! You can start by not taking what someone says out of context and twisting it's meaning..

What I had to say had nothing to do with race, or racism. Obama is Unamerican in his actions and his loyalties. He is not doing what is best for America.

I never said that a public health care plan would be bad. I only said that the fear is more about who is PUSHING it, and how strongly he is PUSHING it. Because of his actions in the past, I personally don't trust him.

None of this has anything to do with his race. I really don't care what color he is, or where he is from. I care about what he is doing as President, and I am not happy with it.

I have a freedom to have that opinionm, and for it to not be racist.

 

[gaholli]

Show me where in the constitution is says they can't provide us health care??

I believe the constitution is a living, growing document, like Doctor Colossus, The Blob or a malignant tumor.

Hence I rule the “equal protection clause” demands universal health insurance, and, while we are at it, free condoms for everyone, even women’s dildos.

The bottom line about universal health care, insofar as "rights" go, is this:

The 10th Amendment to the Constitution states that only powers "expressly" delegated by the Constitution, written in the actual document explicitly, are rights.

Nowhere in the Constitution, or one of the subsequent Amendments established by the American people, does the phrase "free health care" come up, or is implied.

Unless one sees our governing law document as something "interpretable," then he or she must admit that the Constitution never grants the right to "free health care." But such an idea goes against the spirit of the 10th Amendment, among other things.

One can make the moral argument, or the philosophical one, that people deserve health care as a "right." But one cannot reasonably argue that the Constitution states such a thing: No such right is given in the Constitution, as per the expressly stated and enumerated powers clause in the 10th Amendment.



Now, if one wants to add or amend this right into the document, then do so. But for the federal government to effectively force unconstitutional laws in the name of constitutionality is disingenious, and reprehensible.

Read the Constitution before you say what a right is, or isn't.

 

[Oddball]

Hmmm.. FAnnie and freddie were not government run programs.. They are now since bush gave them billions in bailout money..

But lets put your lame arguement into perspective..

You don't trust the government to run your healthcare but Nuclear missiles are ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but our military is ok??

You don't trust our government to run your healthcare but the CIA is ok??

You're a retard!!

And other than a neotard poll.. Most people do want a public option by a large margin..

Poll: Public Option in Health Care Backed by American Majority

Three quarters of americans support a public option.. Poll taken Sept. 1, 2009.
Even 71% of republicans were found to favor it.. So what is your problem?

Let's put your argument into perspective....It's known as the fallacies of begging the question and band wagoneering, and you're still an imbecile.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Microsoft doesn't kill people and I would love you to post your evidence showing they have a higher profit margin than insurance companies..

As for showing someone where the Constitution says we can have healthcare? That is a moot issue as you are arguing that we can't have any social service.. No CPS, DSHS, Child Support collection, nothing.. Healthcare is just another social service.. No medicare, no social security, nothing..

I also notice that when I asked you to support your own arguement, you turned it around and asked me to show you.. You are the one making the arguement.. Either put up or shut up!! You want to make the arguement that it is unconstitutional, then get off your lazy ass and prove it! You know damn well that arguement will never hold up in any court of law let alone the Supreme court..

Dude, your post hardly warrants a response.. Other than to say that Big Daddy works for the insurance companies..

And yes!! It is jealousy that I am upset that 40 million americans die each year because of insurance.. DING! DING!! You win!! You guessed it!!

Grow a FREAKEN brain will you?? How bout you explain to all of us why you are a heartless moron that loves watching 40 million of his fellow americans dies needlessly because of insurance companies!! Explain that to me please!! Then tell me how that makes you a patriot??

40 million people die every year in this country because of ins companies??.....40 million? in 5 years 200 million of us are gone.......ill be able to drive on the freeway at the speed limit....

Sorry.. See correction above.. 45 thousand.. But a little research on your part might have caught that as well..

you did not have to do any research for that one....you can tell it was wrong....at least you admitted it and corrected it....some like Old Rocks and Chris....just keep going....

 

[WillowTree]

Microsoft doesn't kill people and I would love you to post your evidence showing they have a higher profit margin than insurance companies..

As for showing someone where the Constitution says we can have healthcare? That is a moot issue as you are arguing that we can't have any social service.. No CPS, DSHS, Child Support collection, nothing.. Healthcare is just another social service.. No medicare, no social security, nothing..

I also notice that when I asked you to support your own arguement, you turned it around and asked me to show you.. You are the one making the arguement.. Either put up or shut up!! You want to make the arguement that it is unconstitutional, then get off your lazy ass and prove it! You know damn well that arguement will never hold up in any court of law let alone the Supreme court..

Dude, your post hardly warrants a response.. Other than to say that Big Daddy works for the insurance companies..

And yes!! It is jealousy that I am upset that 40 thousand americans die each year because of insurance.. DING! DING!! You win!! You guessed it!!

Grow a FREAKEN brain will you?? How bout you explain to all of us why you are a heartless moron that loves watching 40 thousand of his fellow americans dies needlessly because of insurance companies!! Explain that to me please!! Then tell me how that makes you a patriot??

Edited for mistakes

they die cause of insurance? who the fuck knew! dayuuum!

 

[WillowTree]

Magical, mystical, thin skinned and uneducated!! A perfect liberal!![/QUOTE



with his hand out! gimme gimme gimme!

 

[WillowTree]

The right will try to give all kinds of reasons. But the truth is, they hate Obama. They want him to fail.

Notice how many say they don't want "government insurance" but have Medicare and Medicaid?

They even use that tired argument that the Government will destroy health care the way the Post Office destroyed UPS and Fed Ex.

The first one that says, "But Fed Ex and UPS are very successful businesses", will get a "Gold Star".

oh noes! not this bullshit again!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The loonies here are the ones who think what they believe somehow has any effect on SCOTUS, Congress, original intent, the MLB rule book, how to treat cancer, or pick their collective nose. They are irrelevant.

 

[The Rabbi]

The loonies here are the ones who think what they believe somehow has any effect on SCOTUS, Congress, original intent, the MLB rule book, how to treat cancer, or pick their collective nose. They are irrelevant.

Yet another malodorous load from the keyboard of "Jake, King of the Unsubstantiated Statement." Waytogo!

 

[alan1]

I am still waiting for one of you neotards to explain to me why the U.S. is dead last in the world for preventable deaths..

Anyone?? Someone??

Why is France kicking our ass in healthcare??

Smart?? Your a racist!! Why is Obama unamerican? Unlike Bush, he was actually elected to office without running a smear campaign of lies..

None of you have given a single logical reason as to why public health is a bad thing.. If you all hate the government so much and fear it or don't trust it then move the fuck to another country!! Don't sit here and claim to be patrotic and then try to convince everyone how horrible the government is.. If you hate the converment so much then move to Iraq.. You won't have to worry about gun control laws either.. There would be no worries about abortion.. Think of it!! A perfect country for neotards!! Oh wait.. They are muslim.. Amazing what you all have in common..

Fine, I'll play your game.

It might have to do with obesity rates. Obesity statistics - countries compared - NationMaster France, 9.4% obesity rate, USA 30.6% obesity rate
Deaths caused from obesity are 100% preventable. How about if you let the government decide exactly what food everybody gets to eat and how much of it in order to prevent obesity caused deaths. That ought to improve the preventable deaths in short order.

 

[frazzledgear]

It is not a matter of being scared. It is a constitutional matter for me. I do not believe the federal government has any business in this area per the Constitution. I don't care how noble and caring it may look, it is wrong, in my opinion. I will do everything I can to fight against it.

If you want healthcare, pay for it yourself. You want others to have healthcare, pay for them. Leave my money alone.

Show me where in the constitution is says they can't provide us health care??

For that matter, where in the Constitution does it say government can't provide us all with unlimited booze and drugs, rotating sex partners, free movies and popcorn on Saturday nights and a babysitter whenever we want? It appears you are under the impression that the Constitution can mean whatever you want it to mean at the moment since you seem to think if it doesn't specifically SAY government can't do it, then what it actually does say just doesn't matter, right? LOL


Our Constitution was not written with the intention of creating a federal government that provides the people with ANYTHING beyond national defense, or with a government that would run ANY industry, or take over ANY industry. That is because our founders wrote a Constitution that was meant to prevent the use of government coercion against WE THE PEOPLE and the various legal ways WE THE PEOPLE may choose to make our livings -as WE THE PEOPLE went about providing for OURSELVES. The Constitution was intended to protect WE THE PEOPLE from our own government -all so we may best provide for ourselves. What is it about FREEDOM you liberals either can't get -or despise? Providing for ourselves is not just our responsibility to do -but our RIGHT to do so. Because that is what FREEDOM is all about -running our own lives, providing for ourselves, using our own best judgment to make the major decisions in our lives. And making of our own lives what we will -for better or ill. Instead of pretending a bunch of faceless bureaucrats who will never lay eyes on you and can't be fired no matter how poorly they do their job and for whom you will never be anything but a meaningless number -knows what it is in your best interests far better than you do. I wouldn't turn over my health care to my neighbor who at least knows and likes me -why would I want government bureaucrats running it? Let's not pretend on this one -a government that controls your health care, controls you and becomes your master. All while YOU will foot the bill for it -and will end up paying FAR more than you did when paying for it directly yourself.

The Constitution is OUR contract with government -one that obligates government to a specific role. NOT the other way around that makes government the master of the people. A government that PROVIDES for you -is your master. Plain and simple -you have to do what it tells you in exchange for those handouts. Even though you foot the bill for them, government can and will deny them to you unless you dance to THEIR tune. If you have to do what government tells you in order to receive it even though you are paying for it anyway - then you aren't a free person, but the servant of government. PERIOD. In case you didn't know this, Americans already fought one war over this issue and thought they had settled who was going to be the master and which was going to be the servant in this country.

And here is the real kicker about pretending it would be government "providing" it. The vast majority already pay for it right now -for THEMSELVES. But if government inserts itself into the equation, it becomes one more party between you and your doctor -and thereby can ONLY make it even more expensive and the system less responsive to YOUR needs. All while they will set up a bunch of their OWN rules about what YOU can and cannot do in order to receive what you are and were already paying for in the first place! All because people like you are silly enough to believe that if "provided" by government (even though you are still the one footing the bill for it) that will actually make it less expensive and of better quality. And we will all live happily ever after. ROFLMAO -what planet are you from?

Medicare is scheduled for bankruptcy in less than ten years. Not a peep from Congress about any realistic plans to fix that. ONLY talk about stripping half a billion from Medicare so that government can start "providing" insurance to younger, healthier and wealthier people who can provide it for themselves! Government hasn't gotten Medicare right -and screwed up another government program in just ONE week by underestimating the cost by a factor of FOUR - but people think government is just the entity to take it over for everyone and lots of wonderful things will happen? GET REAL. You really think the elderly are just too stupid to understand the only way to strip Medicare of half of billion is by denying them more of the medical services now available to them? They aren't -they know exactly what it means which is why they overwhelmingly oppose it. Asking the elderly and disabled to pay with their quality of life and even their life expectancy (as has happened in the UK already when it became undeniable to them that their system was no longer sustainable) so that younger, healthier and wealthier people can be "provided" insurance by government in the greatest expansion of government power ever seen in this country - and proclaiming it to be a "good" thing -is a lie.

None of these bills involve any meaningful or real reform that includes any of the KNOWN measures that would definitely reduce insurance and healthcare costs. Not a one. These bills are all about expanding government POWER.

And for the person who started this thread -healthcare is 1/6th of our economy. That is nearly 17%, not the 6% you said. And private insurance isn't about to "lose" it -but government run healthcare has proven to be just the entity to wreck it for everyone.

 

[frazzledgear]

Show me where in the constitution is says they can't provide us health care??

I believe the constitution is a living, growing document, like Doctor Colossus, The Blob or a malignant tumor.

Hence I rule the “equal protection clause” demands universal health insurance, and, while we are at it, free condoms for everyone, even women’s dildos.

The bottom line about universal health care, insofar as "rights" go, is this:

The 10th Amendment to the Constitution states that only powers "expressly" delegated by the Constitution, written in the actual document explicitly, are rights.

Nowhere in the Constitution, or one of the subsequent Amendments established by the American people, does the phrase "free health care" come up, or is implied.

Unless one sees our governing law document as something "interpretable," then he or she must admit that the Constitution never grants the right to "free health care." But such an idea goes against the spirit of the 10th Amendment, among other things.

One can make the moral argument, or the philosophical one, that people deserve health care as a "right." But one cannot reasonably argue that the Constitution states such a thing: No such right is given in the Constitution, as per the expressly stated and enumerated powers clause in the 10th Amendment.



Now, if one wants to add or amend this right into the document, then do so. But for the federal government to effectively force unconstitutional laws in the name of constitutionality is disingenious, and reprehensible.

Read the Constitution before you say what a right is, or isn't.

Health care is not and will never be a real right. Your real rights involve YOU and YOU alone -and the restrictions on GOVERNMENT when it comes to those rights. Your right to express an opinion without fear of being arrested for it. Your right to practice your faith without fear of some government thug tossing you in a concentration camp for being the "wrong" religion. Your right to peaceably assemble without fear of having the police shoot you. Our Constitution lists the rights the people have claimed for themselves - and the specific ways government may NOT interfere with them. Your rights NEVER involve having a "right" to the services of another person. NO ONE has the right to the services of another person, therefore no such thing as a "right" to health care. Just because its a service that is valued changes nothing. If manicures were just as valued, would we suddenly all have this "right" to a manicure?

Another reason it can never be a "right" is that it means turning it over to government -and the only way to do that is by FORFEITING your freedoms and real rights. The Bill of Rights was meant to protect us from our own government, limiting its power. But a "right" to health care means endowing it with massive power at the expense of real rights and freedoms. In exchange for something that the vast majority of people are able to provide for themselves. If the majority of people are able to provide it for themselves, then government does not need to provide it for all. Especially since it means people must trade off their freedoms and real rights in exchange. What kind of frigging "right" is that?

And of all goods and services produced by man -why pick on health care as a "right" anyway when we have no "right" to the necessities of life, things we all MUST have just to survive? Like food. No right to food listed in the Constitution and no right to shelter either. Yet we managed to figure out how to help those who cannot provide these things for themselves -the things EVERY SINGLE PERSON must have just to survive. Without destroying the entire system that works well for the vast majority. And without making them a "right". What were the founders thinking, huh?

And the real problem with pretending health care is a right -is that health care is not a necessity of life. We do not all NEED health care just to survive. Only some of us do. Are you telling me we can't figure out how to help those who MUST have health care just to survive or for whom a catastrophic illness would financially wipe them out without destroying the system for the vast majority who are satisfied with how it works for them? Yet we managed to figure it out for the real necessities of life and didn't decide to screw that system up for everyone in the process?

I have yet to hear a reasoned argument why it requires destroying our system and turning it into yet one more unsustainable system when the fact government run health care systems are right now looking at doom and gloom. Even France is running up against hard reality that government run health care systems are just not sustainable beyond a certain point. For those wasting their time envying France's already dying system -just how much are you willing to pay to experience that here firsthand? The French are already heavily taxed to pay for it and it still isn't enough to sustain their system and they are facing even heavier taxes -or cutting back on services. In fact nothing in France works well for them. If they don't figure out what they have done wrong, the collapse of their entire system is inevitable and it may already be too late. Routine double digit unemployment and routine 25+% unemployment among young adults. A nightmare environment for businesses. Stagnant economy as a matter of routine, an overtaxed population that now believes their government is their primary caretaker instead of themselves and stupidly seem to believe its all "free" and not costing them far more than if they paid for it directly themselves. To say nothing of the cost to their self reliance and very soul.

The real question is just how much are you willing to trade off for government run health care? How much of your freedoms mean less to you than a make-believe "right" that when put into practice really just means you forfeit more of what you earned to government so you can get less in return for that money than you get for it now? Just how much of YOUR income, YOUR freedoms, YOUR ability to control your own life are you personally willing to fork over to government for it? Ready to pay the 40% the French pay as they are considering raising those rates again? How about the 60+% Cubans pay who now exist as a captive labor force for the government? Because government will constantly come back for more and more. Which is really the point of it all by those who KNOW what a disaster it really is in other countries already -yet still demanding we imitate them right here. And interesting that the people who intend to vote to inflict such a system on us all -have NO intention of being forced into that system themselves. They consider themselves to be an entitled class, deserving of far better than that they will inflict on us. Just like the government elite in Cuba do. The arrogance only adds to my anger.

 

[KittenKoder]

When was the last time someone on the "right" raided Medicare for a pet project?

 

[Harry Dresden]

They even use that tired argument that the Government will destroy health care the way the Post Office destroyed UPS and Fed Ex.

The first one that says, "But Fed Ex and UPS are very successful businesses", will get a "Gold Star".

the Post Office was around much longer than both of those companies,and both of those companies took a lot of business away from the PO.....I dont see the correlation....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The right will try to give all kinds of reasons. But the truth is, they hate Obama. They want him to fail.

Notice how many say they don't want "government insurance" but have Medicare and Medicaid?

They even use that tired argument that the Government will destroy health care the way the Post Office destroyed UPS and Fed Ex.

The first one that says, "But Fed Ex and UPS are very successful businesses", will get a "Gold Star".

Where did this stinking pile of shit come from?
No, we hate health care reform because the ideas suck, have failed everyplace they have been tried, and will make our system worse not better. If Bush had proposed it, we would still be opposed.
The PO didnt destroy Fed Ex and UPS. They dont really compete in the same market anyway. In fact are barred by law from doing so.
If the government subsidized the PO's rates for packages to make sure everyone had equal access to postal service then that would destroy FedEx, because the PO could simply make up the difference from taxpayer money. This is exactly what is proposed in the public option, a subsidy.

only in first class mail delivery.....but there are ways around that....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You are an emotional cripple that needs to grow up. We don't hate our country, we love it. You probably love it too. We just disagree about this issue. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "racist" only makes you look like an immature and uneducated fool.

very true .....but this applies to many people here....not just this guy...