Why Do You Trust the Bible?

[KevinWestern]

Exactly the point.

lol Let me rephrase that. If we do not have the tools to study the bible, under whose authority can anyone say it is valid?

None of the major points in the bible can be proven. No one can say that the bible is valid. Science has even disproved a lot of it.

Well the argument that some people have brought forth is that “the bible” is notable because it contains many parables and words of wisdom that seem to ring true to a great number of individuals. Therefore, simply proving that “you can’t walk on water” doesn’t necessarily invalidate the doctrine because you’re overlooking all of the neat spiritual stuff hidden in between the lines.

With that said, I think there are a lot of books out there that have the same effect on people.

 

[GISMYS]

Bible prophecy is GREAT proof of the truth of God's word. God created "true science" and it is used through out the universe!

 

[Chuckt]

Likewise, under whose authority do you say it is valid?

Exactly the point.

lol Let me rephrase that. If we do not have the tools to study the bible, under whose authority can anyone say it is valid?

God just started speaking answers to me, Pacer. It was coincidence after coincidence after coincidence that I just couldn't pass it over anymore.

That is why Pastor Chuck's church grew. He was reading from the Bible, he was hearing from God and the people recognized it and his church grew from a handful to over 50,000 and 1,200 churches world wide.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined; and in whose sentence we are to rest; can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.(z)

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Various | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org

Christians heard God speak through other awakenings and revivals.

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

God still speaks today. You probably haven't been listening or haven't tried to get His attention if you can't hear Him.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And returning more to the OP, if someone who really admired a person (ie a disciple) said 60 years later that the person he absolutely admired walked on water, resurrected, etc I’d generally be pretty darn skeptical.

They forgot to mention it was near shore and Jesus was standing in about 2 inches of water.

So Peter sank in two inches of water?

Yes, according to Pacer, Peter sank in 2 inches of water while crying out to the LORD to save him! While the disciples looked on in terror from their fishing vessel which also were sitting in 2 inches of water! ha! ha!

This must be how it happened because Pacer says so. ( not )

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Exactly the point.

lol Let me rephrase that. If we do not have the tools to study the bible, under whose authority can anyone say it is valid?

God just started speaking answers to me, Pacer. It was coincidence after coincidence after coincidence that I just couldn't pass it over anymore.

That is why Pastor Chuck's church grew. He was reading from the Bible, he was hearing from God and the people recognized it and his church grew from a handful to over 50,000 and 1,200 churches world wide.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined; and in whose sentence we are to rest; can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.(z)

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Various | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org

Christians heard God speak through other awakenings and revivals.

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

God still speaks today. You probably haven't been listening or haven't tried to get His attention if you can't hear Him.

Oh I believe he has Gods attention. Most definitely.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is why Pastor Chuck's church grew. He was reading from the Bible, he was hearing from God and the people recognized it and his church grew from a handful to over 50,000 and 1,200 churches world wide.

Just like Sil's church of LGBT

 

[Chuckt]

That is why Pastor Chuck's church grew. He was reading from the Bible, he was hearing from God and the people recognized it and his church grew from a handful to over 50,000 and 1,200 churches world wide.

Just like Sil's church of LGBT

I don't know. I think the restrainer is letting go which is why you see that happening.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

 

[Chuckt]

I start with a few basic assumptions.....
1) the universe and everything in it was intentionally created....
2) a being powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it would also be powerful enough to communicate to us, why he created it....
3) that a being powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it and communicate to us why he did it would be smart enough to make sure we didn't misunderstand that communication......
4) about half the people on the planet have a common general consensus regarding what that communication is.....(substantially more if you count those who know what it is but refuse to accept it)......

Ok, fair enough. But half the planet? I think there’s like 2.3 billion “official Christians” and many of those individuals fall into the “routine Christian” category where they merely go to church on Sundays because that’s what they’ve always done from childhood. Point I’m making is that the majority of the planet isn’t Christian (but correct me if my stats are wrong).

Also, question I posed (sort of) above is that people of ALL religious groups report “knowing inside” that what they’ve read/experienced is the absolute truth. I don’t doubt this feeling you describe – as I have felt it before on my own spiritual journeys – however it obviously presents a problem as BOTH Islam and Christianity obviously can’t be simultaneously true.

You know what I mean?

Somehow routine Christian isn't good enough? They have to be super Christian or something?

So because there is a false system, the true one cannot be true or you cannot know?

 

[Chuckt]

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK on Christian beliefs as I respect the grand majority of Christians, see them to be wonderful people and wonderful contributors to the community, and have no right to say that what they believe is wrong.

However, I have a question; given that the New Testament was written ~30-60 years AFTER the death of Jesus Christ (correct me if I’m wrong), aren’t you at all concerned that the authors might have:

(1) Forgotten some key details, exact words, etc (I mean, do you remember what you ate for lunch March 3rd, 2009? I don’t)
(2) Altered some things to make the story more interesting

Fair question, right?

I mean, imagine if followers (ie disciples) of President Obama were to create a biography of his SIXTY years from now (specifically his followers) – from memory – don’t you think it’d be just a little bit skewed? Would you consider their account to be valid? I know I wouldn't, and would demand backup/proof! Would you?

These are just honest questions from a non-Christian. I'm not trying to be combative...

The bible was written by Godly men inspired (God breathed) BY GOD EVERY WORD.

Assuming that is true, does it take into account political actions like committees deciding which books were good enough to be in a Bible or kings using Bibles for political reasons like King James I or even just the work of translators or stuff lost along the way when oral traditions were all we had?

Oral traditions weren't all they had. It was an expensive task to write them down on animal skins.

 

[KevinWestern]

I start with a few basic assumptions.....
1) the universe and everything in it was intentionally created....
2) a being powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it would also be powerful enough to communicate to us, why he created it....
3) that a being powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it and communicate to us why he did it would be smart enough to make sure we didn't misunderstand that communication......
4) about half the people on the planet have a common general consensus regarding what that communication is.....(substantially more if you count those who know what it is but refuse to accept it)......

Ok, fair enough. But half the planet? I think there’s like 2.3 billion “official Christians” and many of those individuals fall into the “routine Christian” category where they merely go to church on Sundays because that’s what they’ve always done from childhood. Point I’m making is that the majority of the planet isn’t Christian (but correct me if my stats are wrong).

Also, question I posed (sort of) above is that people of ALL religious groups report “knowing inside” that what they’ve read/experienced is the absolute truth. I don’t doubt this feeling you describe – as I have felt it before on my own spiritual journeys – however it obviously presents a problem as BOTH Islam and Christianity obviously can’t be simultaneously true.

You know what I mean?

Somehow routine Christian isn't good enough? They have to be super Christian or something?

So because there is a false system, the true one cannot be true or you cannot know?

I should rephrase. I believe there to be many people who say "yes I'm Christian" (in the context of a survey that counts the number of Christians in a community) but in fact don't go to church, don't read the bible, etc. Not saying you need to be a "super Christian", just pointing out that many people are Christian in name only and don't necessarily try to immerse themselves in the doctrine.

Growing up, I witnessed many sets of parents that simply went to church to maintain social structure. Not saying that's good or bad or anything, just pointing it out.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's make sure we are on the same ground: Biblical literalists are heretics and only a small % of world wide Christianity.

 

[PostmodernProph]

But I guess again going back to the OP – if an FDR supporter were to tell you wild, fantastic stories about FDR based off of memory (I say “fantastic” because obviously the things Jesus was said to have done were “fantastic” by most stretches of the imagination) would you press him/her for more evidence or would you simply believe it to be true?

????.....Franklin Delinore Roosevelt?......I guess I would have to see if his contemporaries observed the same things.....as happened in the case of Jesus.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Why were the authors of the bible given a “free pass” on authenticity when in most all other situations of a person retelling of a story that happened 60 years ago you’d be ultra-skeptical?

??...they weren't.....but when the events were finally set forth on paper they were read by other people who had experienced Jesus......and by people who had been hearing the oral communication from people for decades.....

or did you think that when Jesus died everybody just shut up for 30-50 years and then suddenly, wrote something down?.......

 

[Mr Natural]

I don't trust the Bible anymore than I trust any other storybook.

 

[PostmodernProph]

they begin by saying the same deity created the universe......Islam and Judaism claim that humanity can obtain righteousness before God by their own actions.....I find that belief to be incredible, from what I have observed of humanity.....Christianity claims such righteousness is only available through the act of the deity.....that I can believe.....thus the screening is complete through step #3 above, leaving me with one alternative.....

I don't understand God's thinking on the subject. I can be an absolute dick to everyone and torment every soul I ever encounter, but if I accept Christ at the last minute I get a pass, but if I lead a peerless life and help and comfort and love everyone I meet but pick the wrong religion I'll roast in hell forever. That just makes no sense to me at all.

irrelevant, since we all know you've been a dick......../grins.....

nobody lives a righteous life.....that was the message of the Sermon on the Mount....."oh, you think you've been good? Try this!"......

righteousness only comes from God, not from some imagined goodness of the human spirit.....to be saved, you accept it......

what REALLY doesn't make sense is thinking God should save you when you refuse to even believe he exists.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

How can you have someone like Jesus saying the only way to salvation is through believe in his divinity but that the beliefs of a Buddhist still get one to God? What is the cut off point? Which religious systems are valid? If they're all valid why bother with Christianity or Islam or Shintoism instead of just going with some flavor of simple spirituality?

agreed......but the solution is simple.....if you want to get into the heaven God talks about, you do what God requires......if you want to take your chances with the Buddhist's heaven, you do what Buddha requires......if you want to make up your own religion, make your own heaven.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

He preached a message of peace? Meh.
He preached a message of peace AND he could walk on water? Wow! Sign me up.

.

except you've been told he did that and a lot more and you still choose not to believe it.....do you think it would have been different if you were alive at the time and he was doing it in the next county?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Exactly the point.

lol Let me rephrase that. If we do not have the tools to study the bible, under whose authority can anyone say it is valid?

None of the major points in the bible can be proven. No one can say that the bible is valid. Science has even disproved a lot of it.

lol what, the first two pages?.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

The bible was written by Godly men inspired (God breathed) BY GOD EVERY WORD.

Assuming that is true, does it take into account political actions like committees deciding which books were good enough to be in a Bible or kings using Bibles for political reasons like King James I or even just the work of translators or stuff lost along the way when oral traditions were all we had?

Oral traditions weren't all they had. It was an expensive task to write them down on animal skins.

actually, papyrus predates Jesus.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Ok, fair enough. But half the planet? I think there’s like 2.3 billion “official Christians” and many of those individuals fall into the “routine Christian” category where they merely go to church on Sundays because that’s what they’ve always done from childhood. Point I’m making is that the majority of the planet isn’t Christian (but correct me if my stats are wrong).

Also, question I posed (sort of) above is that people of ALL religious groups report “knowing inside” that what they’ve read/experienced is the absolute truth. I don’t doubt this feeling you describe – as I have felt it before on my own spiritual journeys – however it obviously presents a problem as BOTH Islam and Christianity obviously can’t be simultaneously true.

You know what I mean?

Somehow routine Christian isn't good enough? They have to be super Christian or something?

So because there is a false system, the true one cannot be true or you cannot know?

I should rephrase. I believe there to be many people who say "yes I'm Christian" (in the context of a survey that counts the number of Christians in a community) but in fact don't go to church, don't read the bible, etc. Not saying you need to be a "super Christian", just pointing out that many people are Christian in name only and don't necessarily try to immerse themselves in the doctrine.

Growing up, I witnessed many sets of parents that simply went to church to maintain social structure. Not saying that's good or bad or anything, just pointing it out.

\

so in summary, a person may be a Christian yet never attend a church......or attend a church but never believe in Christ......