Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

[frigidweirdo]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

Any question like this is legitimate.

As I have said for a long time.

Someone has to put together a grading system that we all agree on....maybe there are multiple systems.

When everyone agrees, then we can grade the systems and people might be able to join a conversation about improvement.

Is % of GDP legitimate ? I think it should be part of the equation.

But that is the cost of the system.

If you have insurance (and it isn't some stupid ACA plan with outrageous deductibles), then you have access to the best technological care in the world.

If you don't have access, you might as well live in the congo.

So you live in the richest country in the world and it's like you're in the 3rd world. Is that the govt looking out for its people?

No, as we all know, the govt cares about the rich.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

Any question like this is legitimate.

As I have said for a long time.

Someone has to put together a grading system that we all agree on....maybe there are multiple systems.

When everyone agrees, then we can grade the systems and people might be able to join a conversation about improvement.

Is % of GDP legitimate ? I think it should be part of the equation.

But that is the cost of the system.

If you have insurance (and it isn't some stupid ACA plan with outrageous deductibles), then you have access to the best technological care in the world.

If you don't have access, you might as well live in the congo.

So you live in the richest country in the world and it's like you're in the 3rd world. Is that the govt looking out for its people?

No, as we all know, the govt cares about the rich.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

 

[frigidweirdo]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

Any question like this is legitimate.

As I have said for a long time.

Someone has to put together a grading system that we all agree on....maybe there are multiple systems.

When everyone agrees, then we can grade the systems and people might be able to join a conversation about improvement.

Is % of GDP legitimate ? I think it should be part of the equation.

But that is the cost of the system.

If you have insurance (and it isn't some stupid ACA plan with outrageous deductibles), then you have access to the best technological care in the world.

If you don't have access, you might as well live in the congo.

So you live in the richest country in the world and it's like you're in the 3rd world. Is that the govt looking out for its people?

No, as we all know, the govt cares about the rich.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Any question like this is legitimate.

As I have said for a long time.

Someone has to put together a grading system that we all agree on....maybe there are multiple systems.

When everyone agrees, then we can grade the systems and people might be able to join a conversation about improvement.

Is % of GDP legitimate ? I think it should be part of the equation.

But that is the cost of the system.

If you have insurance (and it isn't some stupid ACA plan with outrageous deductibles), then you have access to the best technological care in the world.

If you don't have access, you might as well live in the congo.

So you live in the richest country in the world and it's like you're in the 3rd world. Is that the govt looking out for its people?

No, as we all know, the govt cares about the rich.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

And I will be working in the other direction.

But I think we need a very good set of objectives with regards to healthcare.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So you live in the richest country in the world and it's like you're in the 3rd world. Is that the govt looking out for its people?

No, as we all know, the govt cares about the rich.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

And I will be working in the other direction.

But I think we need a very good set of objectives with regards to healthcare.

So you want healthcare that is overly expensive because you have to pay for profits for loads of different companies for no real reason other than you can?

Seems a little strange. 3% of GDP goes on corruption within healthcare, and probably another 3% on profits for companies which leech off a system that doesn't even need to exist.

You simply don't need health insurance companies. The UK manages with only a few for private healthcare. Their profits are a drain on a system. If the US spent what it spends but was all government spending the right would be screaming, but as it's going into rich people's pockets, they're happy to pay. Seems crazy to me.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, the bottom line is that in our current system things like Single Payer won't work like people think they work in other countries (and while they may work to some degree...they are far from perfect).

If you want a true single payer system, you'll need to basically change the way our government works.

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

And I will be working in the other direction.

But I think we need a very good set of objectives with regards to healthcare.

So you want healthcare that is overly expensive because you have to pay for profits for loads of different companies for no real reason other than you can?

Seems a little strange. 3% of GDP goes on corruption within healthcare, and probably another 3% on profits for companies which leech off a system that doesn't even need to exist.

You simply don't need health insurance companies. The UK manages with only a few for private healthcare. Their profits are a drain on a system. If the US spent what it spends but was all government spending the right would be screaming, but as it's going into rich people's pockets, they're happy to pay. Seems crazy to me.

It is crazy.

But you won't fix it by putting a single payer system in place.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

And I will be working in the other direction.

But I think we need a very good set of objectives with regards to healthcare.

So you want healthcare that is overly expensive because you have to pay for profits for loads of different companies for no real reason other than you can?

Seems a little strange. 3% of GDP goes on corruption within healthcare, and probably another 3% on profits for companies which leech off a system that doesn't even need to exist.

You simply don't need health insurance companies. The UK manages with only a few for private healthcare. Their profits are a drain on a system. If the US spent what it spends but was all government spending the right would be screaming, but as it's going into rich people's pockets, they're happy to pay. Seems crazy to me.

It is crazy.

But you won't fix it by putting a single payer system in place.

Depends what you mean by "fix it". You'd fix a lot of the corruption this way, you'd fix having unnecessary elements that cost a lot of money in the system.

Is The Profit Motive Ruining American Healthcare?

“The five largest health insurance companies – WellPoint, United Health, Aetna, Humana, and Cigna – … earned over $3.3 billion in profits [between April and June 2011].”

That's $13.2 billion a year.

“Imagine confiscating all the profits of all the famously greedy health insurance companies. That would pay for 4 days of healthcare for all Americans. Now add in the profits of the 10 biggest ‘rapacious’ drug companies. Another 13 days.”

So, you're looking at 4% of spending going to the profits of drug companies and insurance companies.

3.75% of money goes to healthcare insurance costs in the first place. Totally unnecessary.

"Total health care spending in the United States is expected to reach $4.8 trillion in 2021"

That'll be 0.17 tillion being spent on unncessary costs.

Save this money, save money from prescription drugs which could save 5% or more at least, hospitals would be cheaper.

The UK healthcare costs half what it costs in the US. Having very good system for 25% less would be amazing, and only achievable by getting rid of unnecessary costs.

 

[emilynghiem]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

Dear frigidweirdo:
It's like asking why do we put up with the criminal justice system?
That rewards and pays for criminals, and punishes the lawabiding taxpayers who foot the bill.

1. it's because both sides OPPOSED to what's going on
Don't AGREE what to change it to!

2. And guess what, the KEY to reforming and paying for sustainable health care
IS GOING TO INVOLVE reforming the prison and mental health system that is eating up state budgets and costing taxpayers out the kazoo.

Why pay 50K a year per person to keep them in prison, pay for their care, and leave them unable to work and fend for themselves?

Why can't 50K a year be invested in medical education and training/internships to CREATE more health care providers and jobs
to SERVE the public. And the work it takes to train and supervise the new providers in health care/social services
can be the basis of public health services to reach the broader populations. They just have to go to the school run clinics
in each district that is developed to meet the demands of the local population proportionately.

 

[Arianrhod]

Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

Cowardice, laziness, and lack of organization and willpower to fight the system.

I'd say it's more a question of "American exceptionalism," i.e., ignorance. They think because it's the most expensive it's somehow superior to any other country's system. And they any attempt to tell them otherwise. Q.v. some of the ignorami on this board.

A recent WaPost poll indicated that one-third of Americans didn't know what year 9/11 occurred. Try teaching them anything other than how to recite the Sacred Second from memory.

 

[Greenbeard]

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

So, deductibles then.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I prefer a system where it's free at the point of delivery!

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

So, deductibles then.

Yes...well, you know it isn't free overall.

But to your statement...when do you start pentitioning for a different government ?

Yes, I know it's not free overall. I do know it'd be cheaper by at least half what is paid in the US though.

Well, I've been talking a lot about changing the way people vote in the US to change the way politics works.

And I will be working in the other direction.

But I think we need a very good set of objectives with regards to healthcare.

So you want healthcare that is overly expensive because you have to pay for profits for loads of different companies for no real reason other than you can?

Seems a little strange. 3% of GDP goes on corruption within healthcare, and probably another 3% on profits for companies which leech off a system that doesn't even need to exist.

You simply don't need health insurance companies. The UK manages with only a few for private healthcare. Their profits are a drain on a system. If the US spent what it spends but was all government spending the right would be screaming, but as it's going into rich people's pockets, they're happy to pay. Seems crazy to me.

It is crazy.

But you won't fix it by putting a single payer system in place.

Depends what you mean by "fix it". You'd fix a lot of the corruption this way, you'd fix having unnecessary elements that cost a lot of money in the system.

Is The Profit Motive Ruining American Healthcare?

“The five largest health insurance companies – WellPoint, United Health, Aetna, Humana, and Cigna – … earned over $3.3 billion in profits [between April and June 2011].”

That's $13.2 billion a year.

“Imagine confiscating all the profits of all the famously greedy health insurance companies. That would pay for 4 days of healthcare for all Americans. Now add in the profits of the 10 biggest ‘rapacious’ drug companies. Another 13 days.”

So, you're looking at 4% of spending going to the profits of drug companies and insurance companies.

.

Those companies will be in the middle of the "fix".

They'll fix it alright.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

Cowardice, laziness, and lack of organization and willpower to fight the system.

Shut up.

Being rude is no help and Lakhota is correct.

We have friends in England, France and Belgium who all wonder why Americans are okay with paying extremely high taxes but get very little in return.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sky is falling. I get it. Now maybe you should know that the patient pays only a small co-pay, if anything, and the insurer gets a deep discount ... perhaps as deep as 90% off. Pretty much nobody pays full price which may be why it is so outrageously high.

Why is it our whiny, sniveling, low-info, Chicken Little Loony Lefties either fail to tell the whole story or just don't know it?

Oh, yeah, I know these discounts.

"Hey, I'll sell you this item that you can buy for 10 bucks for only 25,000 bucks."

"No thanks"

"Okay, HUGE discount of 90%, now it's only 10,000 bucks"

"But, 90% of 25,000 isn't 10,000"

"Okay then, 9,000, special price just for you"

"Deal".

Discounts and the drug is still $5,000 compared to like $20 elsewhere. Who needs discounts like that?

OK, your analogy sucks but I'll play anyway: Because the cost of making that drug $20 to the patient is massive gov't intervention that stifles R&D (why do you suppose so many drugs and cures are developed in the US?), drags the economy as taxes must be collected and filtered through gov't fingers, diminishes quality control and purity to cut costs, and creates long waits for patient services.

There's a good reason many foreigners come to the US - many from socialized med countries - for med care and training (and pay handsomely for it). Put on your thinking cap and try to figure why.

Do you know where the risky business of developing drugs takes place? It's not in the big pharma companies at all. It's from money given by the US govt in grants and the like. Once something has been shown to be successful the big Pharma companies pick it up and then work on it a little and then sell it for massive profits.

These companies are making massive profits. So them selling drugs cheaper isn't stifling R&D as you said, it'd be stifling their profits.

Pharmaceutical industry gets high on fat profits - BBC News

Yep, they have massive profit margins. Not putting it into R&D at all.

"With some drugs costing upwards of $100,000 for a full course, and with the cost of manufacturing just a tiny fraction of this, it's not hard to see why."

Johnson & Johnson made a profit of $13.8 BILLION in this particular year (probably 2013), a profit margin of 19%. It spend $17.2 BILLION on marketing, and $8.2 billion of R%D. Yeah, it spends DOUBLE on marketing than on R&D. It's R&D is less than its profits, R&D is only 1/9th of their total revenue.

Pfizer, another US company, has profit margins of 43%. $6.6 billion on R&D and profits of $22 billion. Though they spend a higher percentage of their total revenue on R&D, it's still not that much.

"Until recently, paying bribes to doctors to prescribe their drugs was commonplace at big pharmas,"

"The rules on gifts, educational grants and sponsoring lectures, for example, are less clear cut, and these practices remain commonplace in the US."

"Indeed a recent study found that doctors in the US receiving payments from pharma companies were twice as likely to prescribe their drugs."

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/76xx/doc7615/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

"
The federal government spent more than $25 billion on health-related R&D in 2005. Only some of that spending is explicitly related to the development of new pharmaceuticals. However, much of it is devoted to basic research on the mechanisms of disease, which underpins the pharmaceutical industry’s search for new drugs."

So the US spends about the same amount as the top three Pharma companies in the world on R&D and doesn't make a profit from it.

"federal grants help to train many of the researchers who are hired by drug companies."

"In general, the government tends to focus on basic research, whereas private firms focus much more on applied research and development"


So basically the Pharma companies are making it rich. Their profits are high, they could reduce drug prices, they could do a lot, but because of the nature of the US's for profit healthcare system they don't need to. A system which is not for profit would be far more beneficial as it would cost a lot less, and force the drug companies to not massively overcharge for drugs, as it can't do in other countries.

Yup, pharmaceutical companies are mainly massive marketing and sales forces. They have legions of attractive women sent out to flirt with doctors in order to get their products into the market.

very true. big pharma is raping us. Has obozo done anything about that? has the hildebeast proposed doing anything about it? of course not, they are financial slaves to big pharma.

Why do drug patents run for 12 years? Why are they allowed to make a tiny change in the formula and get a new patent? Why cant Canadian drugs be sold in the USA?

If you libs want to attack something, attack big pharma.

It was HWBush and WBush who pushed us into this corner. And as we all know, WBush made no effort to even pretend to pay for his extravegant spending of the tax payer's money.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

Cowardice, laziness, and lack of organization and willpower to fight the system.

Shut up.

Being rude is now help and Lakhota is correct.

We have friends in England, France and Belgium who all wonder why Americans are okay with paying extremely high taxes but get very little in return.

No, Lakhota is stupid.

As for the rest....they think we pay high taxes ????

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Oh, yeah, I know these discounts.

"Hey, I'll sell you this item that you can buy for 10 bucks for only 25,000 bucks."

"No thanks"

"Okay, HUGE discount of 90%, now it's only 10,000 bucks"

"But, 90% of 25,000 isn't 10,000"

"Okay then, 9,000, special price just for you"

"Deal".

Discounts and the drug is still $5,000 compared to like $20 elsewhere. Who needs discounts like that?

OK, your analogy sucks but I'll play anyway: Because the cost of making that drug $20 to the patient is massive gov't intervention that stifles R&D (why do you suppose so many drugs and cures are developed in the US?), drags the economy as taxes must be collected and filtered through gov't fingers, diminishes quality control and purity to cut costs, and creates long waits for patient services.

There's a good reason many foreigners come to the US - many from socialized med countries - for med care and training (and pay handsomely for it). Put on your thinking cap and try to figure why.

Do you know where the risky business of developing drugs takes place? It's not in the big pharma companies at all. It's from money given by the US govt in grants and the like. Once something has been shown to be successful the big Pharma companies pick it up and then work on it a little and then sell it for massive profits.

These companies are making massive profits. So them selling drugs cheaper isn't stifling R&D as you said, it'd be stifling their profits.

Pharmaceutical industry gets high on fat profits - BBC News

Yep, they have massive profit margins. Not putting it into R&D at all.

"With some drugs costing upwards of $100,000 for a full course, and with the cost of manufacturing just a tiny fraction of this, it's not hard to see why."

Johnson & Johnson made a profit of $13.8 BILLION in this particular year (probably 2013), a profit margin of 19%. It spend $17.2 BILLION on marketing, and $8.2 billion of R%D. Yeah, it spends DOUBLE on marketing than on R&D. It's R&D is less than its profits, R&D is only 1/9th of their total revenue.

Pfizer, another US company, has profit margins of 43%. $6.6 billion on R&D and profits of $22 billion. Though they spend a higher percentage of their total revenue on R&D, it's still not that much.

"Until recently, paying bribes to doctors to prescribe their drugs was commonplace at big pharmas,"

"The rules on gifts, educational grants and sponsoring lectures, for example, are less clear cut, and these practices remain commonplace in the US."

"Indeed a recent study found that doctors in the US receiving payments from pharma companies were twice as likely to prescribe their drugs."

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/76xx/doc7615/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

"
The federal government spent more than $25 billion on health-related R&D in 2005. Only some of that spending is explicitly related to the development of new pharmaceuticals. However, much of it is devoted to basic research on the mechanisms of disease, which underpins the pharmaceutical industry’s search for new drugs."

So the US spends about the same amount as the top three Pharma companies in the world on R&D and doesn't make a profit from it.

"federal grants help to train many of the researchers who are hired by drug companies."

"In general, the government tends to focus on basic research, whereas private firms focus much more on applied research and development"


So basically the Pharma companies are making it rich. Their profits are high, they could reduce drug prices, they could do a lot, but because of the nature of the US's for profit healthcare system they don't need to. A system which is not for profit would be far more beneficial as it would cost a lot less, and force the drug companies to not massively overcharge for drugs, as it can't do in other countries.

Yup, pharmaceutical companies are mainly massive marketing and sales forces. They have legions of attractive women sent out to flirt with doctors in order to get their products into the market.

very true. big pharma is raping us. Has obozo done anything about that? has the hildebeast proposed doing anything about it? of course not, they are financial slaves to big pharma.

Why do drug patents run for 12 years? Why are they allowed to make a tiny change in the formula and get a new patent? Why cant Canadian drugs be sold in the USA?

If you libs want to attack something, attack big pharma.

It was HWBush and WBush who pushed us into this corner. And as we all know, WBush made no effort to even pretend to pay for his extravegant spending of the tax payer's money.

Talk about a keen sense of the obvious.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

Dear frigidweirdo:
It's like asking why do we put up with the criminal justice system?
That rewards and pays for criminals, and punishes the lawabiding taxpayers who foot the bill.

1. it's because both sides OPPOSED to what's going on
Don't AGREE what to change it to!

2. And guess what, the KEY to reforming and paying for sustainable health care
IS GOING TO INVOLVE reforming the prison and mental health system that is eating up state budgets and costing taxpayers out the kazoo.

Why pay 50K a year per person to keep them in prison, pay for their care, and leave them unable to work and fend for themselves?

Why can't 50K a year be invested in medical education and training/internships to CREATE more health care providers and jobs
to SERVE the public. And the work it takes to train and supervise the new providers in health care/social services
can be the basis of public health services to reach the broader populations. They just have to go to the school run clinics
in each district that is developed to meet the demands of the local population proportionately.

So basically it doesn't work because of partisan politics.

 

[SAYIT]

Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

Cowardice, laziness, and lack of organization and willpower to fight the system.

Shut up.

Being rude is now help and Lakhota is correct.

We have friends in England, France and Belgium who all wonder why Americans are okay with paying extremely high taxes but get very little in return.

No, Lakhota is stupid.

As for the rest....they think we pay high taxes ????

Luddy Nutty's not the brightest bulb on the tree either.

 

[Redfish]

Oh, yeah, I know these discounts.

"Hey, I'll sell you this item that you can buy for 10 bucks for only 25,000 bucks."

"No thanks"

"Okay, HUGE discount of 90%, now it's only 10,000 bucks"

"But, 90% of 25,000 isn't 10,000"

"Okay then, 9,000, special price just for you"

"Deal".

Discounts and the drug is still $5,000 compared to like $20 elsewhere. Who needs discounts like that?

OK, your analogy sucks but I'll play anyway: Because the cost of making that drug $20 to the patient is massive gov't intervention that stifles R&D (why do you suppose so many drugs and cures are developed in the US?), drags the economy as taxes must be collected and filtered through gov't fingers, diminishes quality control and purity to cut costs, and creates long waits for patient services.

There's a good reason many foreigners come to the US - many from socialized med countries - for med care and training (and pay handsomely for it). Put on your thinking cap and try to figure why.

Do you know where the risky business of developing drugs takes place? It's not in the big pharma companies at all. It's from money given by the US govt in grants and the like. Once something has been shown to be successful the big Pharma companies pick it up and then work on it a little and then sell it for massive profits.

These companies are making massive profits. So them selling drugs cheaper isn't stifling R&D as you said, it'd be stifling their profits.

Pharmaceutical industry gets high on fat profits - BBC News

Yep, they have massive profit margins. Not putting it into R&D at all.

"With some drugs costing upwards of $100,000 for a full course, and with the cost of manufacturing just a tiny fraction of this, it's not hard to see why."

Johnson & Johnson made a profit of $13.8 BILLION in this particular year (probably 2013), a profit margin of 19%. It spend $17.2 BILLION on marketing, and $8.2 billion of R%D. Yeah, it spends DOUBLE on marketing than on R&D. It's R&D is less than its profits, R&D is only 1/9th of their total revenue.

Pfizer, another US company, has profit margins of 43%. $6.6 billion on R&D and profits of $22 billion. Though they spend a higher percentage of their total revenue on R&D, it's still not that much.

"Until recently, paying bribes to doctors to prescribe their drugs was commonplace at big pharmas,"

"The rules on gifts, educational grants and sponsoring lectures, for example, are less clear cut, and these practices remain commonplace in the US."

"Indeed a recent study found that doctors in the US receiving payments from pharma companies were twice as likely to prescribe their drugs."

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/76xx/doc7615/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

"
The federal government spent more than $25 billion on health-related R&D in 2005. Only some of that spending is explicitly related to the development of new pharmaceuticals. However, much of it is devoted to basic research on the mechanisms of disease, which underpins the pharmaceutical industry’s search for new drugs."

So the US spends about the same amount as the top three Pharma companies in the world on R&D and doesn't make a profit from it.

"federal grants help to train many of the researchers who are hired by drug companies."

"In general, the government tends to focus on basic research, whereas private firms focus much more on applied research and development"


So basically the Pharma companies are making it rich. Their profits are high, they could reduce drug prices, they could do a lot, but because of the nature of the US's for profit healthcare system they don't need to. A system which is not for profit would be far more beneficial as it would cost a lot less, and force the drug companies to not massively overcharge for drugs, as it can't do in other countries.

Yup, pharmaceutical companies are mainly massive marketing and sales forces. They have legions of attractive women sent out to flirt with doctors in order to get their products into the market.

very true. big pharma is raping us. Has obozo done anything about that? has the hildebeast proposed doing anything about it? of course not, they are financial slaves to big pharma.

Why do drug patents run for 12 years? Why are they allowed to make a tiny change in the formula and get a new patent? Why cant Canadian drugs be sold in the USA?

If you libs want to attack something, attack big pharma.

It was HWBush and WBush who pushed us into this corner. And as we all know, WBush made no effort to even pretend to pay for his extravegant spending of the tax payer's money.

when Bush left office the national debt was around 10T. the result of 43 presidents and over 200 years. after almost 8 years of Obama its 19T. now tell me again which president spent extravagantly.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The question was:

Why do we put up with this healthcare system ?

I think it is a good question.

What's bad with it....what's good with it.

 

[JoeNormal]

OK, your analogy sucks but I'll play anyway: Because the cost of making that drug $20 to the patient is massive gov't intervention that stifles R&D (why do you suppose so many drugs and cures are developed in the US?), drags the economy as taxes must be collected and filtered through gov't fingers, diminishes quality control and purity to cut costs, and creates long waits for patient services.

There's a good reason many foreigners come to the US - many from socialized med countries - for med care and training (and pay handsomely for it). Put on your thinking cap and try to figure why.

Do you know where the risky business of developing drugs takes place? It's not in the big pharma companies at all. It's from money given by the US govt in grants and the like. Once something has been shown to be successful the big Pharma companies pick it up and then work on it a little and then sell it for massive profits.

These companies are making massive profits. So them selling drugs cheaper isn't stifling R&D as you said, it'd be stifling their profits.

Pharmaceutical industry gets high on fat profits - BBC News

Yep, they have massive profit margins. Not putting it into R&D at all.

"With some drugs costing upwards of $100,000 for a full course, and with the cost of manufacturing just a tiny fraction of this, it's not hard to see why."

Johnson & Johnson made a profit of $13.8 BILLION in this particular year (probably 2013), a profit margin of 19%. It spend $17.2 BILLION on marketing, and $8.2 billion of R%D. Yeah, it spends DOUBLE on marketing than on R&D. It's R&D is less than its profits, R&D is only 1/9th of their total revenue.

Pfizer, another US company, has profit margins of 43%. $6.6 billion on R&D and profits of $22 billion. Though they spend a higher percentage of their total revenue on R&D, it's still not that much.

"Until recently, paying bribes to doctors to prescribe their drugs was commonplace at big pharmas,"

"The rules on gifts, educational grants and sponsoring lectures, for example, are less clear cut, and these practices remain commonplace in the US."

"Indeed a recent study found that doctors in the US receiving payments from pharma companies were twice as likely to prescribe their drugs."

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/76xx/doc7615/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

"
The federal government spent more than $25 billion on health-related R&D in 2005. Only some of that spending is explicitly related to the development of new pharmaceuticals. However, much of it is devoted to basic research on the mechanisms of disease, which underpins the pharmaceutical industry’s search for new drugs."

So the US spends about the same amount as the top three Pharma companies in the world on R&D and doesn't make a profit from it.

"federal grants help to train many of the researchers who are hired by drug companies."

"In general, the government tends to focus on basic research, whereas private firms focus much more on applied research and development"


So basically the Pharma companies are making it rich. Their profits are high, they could reduce drug prices, they could do a lot, but because of the nature of the US's for profit healthcare system they don't need to. A system which is not for profit would be far more beneficial as it would cost a lot less, and force the drug companies to not massively overcharge for drugs, as it can't do in other countries.

Yup, pharmaceutical companies are mainly massive marketing and sales forces. They have legions of attractive women sent out to flirt with doctors in order to get their products into the market.

very true. big pharma is raping us. Has obozo done anything about that? has the hildebeast proposed doing anything about it? of course not, they are financial slaves to big pharma.

Why do drug patents run for 12 years? Why are they allowed to make a tiny change in the formula and get a new patent? Why cant Canadian drugs be sold in the USA?

If you libs want to attack something, attack big pharma.

It was HWBush and WBush who pushed us into this corner. And as we all know, WBush made no effort to even pretend to pay for his extravegant spending of the tax payer's money.

when Bush left office the national debt was around 10T. the result of 43 presidents and over 200 years. after almost 8 years of Obama its 19T. now tell me again which president spent extravagantly.

Which president crashed the US economy making it necessary to spend Trillions on assistance programs?