Why do liberals ignore the debt?

[Freemason9]

Diamond Dave certainly does not understand the history of America. It succeeded, in part, because great wealth has always been mitigated by "redistribution" through taxation policies. I'm certain he will deny this, but it is also certainly true.

 

[Contumacious]

I think they want the country to collapse into socialism.

Shalom Aleikhem.

Yo Bibi, what is the difference between socialism and a theocracy?

Why did "conservative" Bush II ignore the debt and unnecessarily invaded Iraq and Afghanistan?

,

 

[bluecoller-eddy]

Duped cries
Why do liberals ignore the debt?

I thought you're G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers were going to take care of the debt?
What the f*ck are they waiting for?

Duped Abandoned his thread without telling us when the G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers
were going to balance the budget.

Isn't that what they promised to do?
Its two years now.



For Republicans, Lying is a way of life.

---- bluecoller -- the grumpy old kraut-------

 

[Steelplate]

Why would a business employ more people if they can't sell any more of their product? And, if they CAN sell more of their product, why aren't they doing it?

Giving a tax break to a business already meeting the demand for whatever it is they sell will only result in more money in their pockets for things like executive bonuses, new Gulfstreams and yachts.

Exactly....the only reasonable way to get out of debt and deficit situations is for MORE people to rise into the middle class......and no, it's NOT Socialism..... it's called a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. If people who are working full time can barely afford to survive.....then it's not a fair day's pay.

More people making more money.means a much larger tax base. It also means that they have disposable income to buy shit....when they buy...it's good for business and the economy. Trickle down doesn't work....no matter what the right wing propaganda machine tells you.

No.. what is absurd is the notion that you tax higher as a way to prosperity... and that you spend your way out of debt

Who said anything about "taxing higher"? I'm talking about curtailing the corporate gravy train that's been eating this country alive since the 80's. I'm talking about punishing businesses who go the slave labor route and rewarding businesses who keep or bring jobs back to America. I'm talking about giving even better breaks to businesses who pay their employees a proper, living wage and punishing businesses who can afford to, but don't.

Spending your way out of debt? It's quite possible to do just that....our infrastructure is crumbling around us....bridges, dams, roads, water and sewage systems, our electrical grid that LOSES 60%(IIRC) of the power we generate. Those public works projects also provide work for private industry to manufacture the materials needed, private local businesses like restaurants, hotels and shopping....

All of that creates business....which increases the tax base....employs people. which increases the tax base.....and improves our country's ability to be more efficient and better compete in a global market....which makes businesses more money and cost less to move goods and provide services.

Instead of investing in a continual war that only serves to keep the weapons and munitions manufacturers flush with cash, let's invest in ourselves. Hell, if it makes you happy....I'm all for welfare recipients working in menial positions on these projects in exchange for their benefits.

 

[Billo_Really]

I said I never here liberals talk about debt ressolutions.

You just ignore them when they do.

I solved the debt problem, jump started the economy and did it without increasing spending and all I got from you was crickets.

Now, crickets are fine, as long as you don't keep pushing this disengenous claim about liberals and the debt. Because if you do, I can not only prove my debt solution works, I can also prove, you don't really care about the debt in the first place.

 

[Richard-H]

Forget for a moment who is responsible for the debt. Why don't liberals talk about how to deal with the debt? Do you think that you can just ignore it like you are doing now with the blame game. How are we ( USA ) going to deal with the fucking humongous debt? Can one of you liberals say one constructive thing about how to surmount the debt?

The Democrats (i.e. the President) have made numerous reasonable proposals for the Federal budget. They have been willing to compromise and have proposed very large spending cuts.

It's the Republicans that have undermined the budget talks by refusing to compromise at all.

It's clear that the Republicans plan is to make sure that no reasonable budget would be passed, thereby insuring that the deficit goes unchecked.

This is their agenda. To insure that there is a huge deficit so that they will have a political rallying point for the upcoming elections.

If they REALLY wanted deficit reduction they would have accepted the best deal they could get (which was 4 trillion in deficit reduction, if I remember correctly).

Instead they would except no deal under any circumstances.

It's amazing how they've duped millions of conservatives into believing the it's the Dems fault that we have a huge deficit.

 

[edthecynic]

Forget for a moment who is responsible for the debt. Why don't liberals talk about how to deal with the debt? Do you think that you can just ignore it like you are doing now with the blame game. How are we ( USA ) going to deal with the fucking humongous debt? Can one of you liberals say one constructive thing about how to surmount the debt?

The Democrats (i.e. the President) have made numerous reasonable proposals for the Federal budget. They have been willing to compromise and have proposed very large spending cuts.

It's the Republicans that have undermined the budget talks by refusing to compromise at all.

It's clear that the Republicans plan is to make sure that no reasonable budget would be passed, thereby insuring that the deficit goes unchecked.

This is their agenda. To insure that there is a huge deficit so that they will have a political rallying point for the upcoming elections.

If they REALLY wanted deficit reduction they would have accepted the best deal they could get (which was 4 trillion in deficit reduction, if I remember correctly).

Instead they would except no deal under any circumstances.

It's amazing how they've duped millions of conservatives into believing the it's the Dems fault that we have a huge deficit.

The CON$ervoFascist Brotherhood are not duped. They know they are lying. The CON$ervoFascist Brotherhood believe that their talent for lying on loan from Gawwwd-da proves their superior intellect.

Any fool can tell the truth, but it requires a man of some sense to know how to lie well.
Samuel Butler

 

[Duped]

Duped cries
Why do liberals ignore the debt?

I thought you're G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers were going to take care of the debt?
What the f*ck are they waiting for?

Duped Abandoned his thread without telling us when the G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers
were going to balance the budget.

Isn't that what they promised to do?
Its two years now.



For Republicans, Lying is a way of life.
I didn't abandon shit - some people have to work all day; I'm not entitled to shit- just the way I like it . I'm not a republican either - I'm very conservative.
So much digression I never see libs talking about debt solutions - why? Simple fucking question unless you ask a bunch of libs. First thing out is Bush. I think Bush fiscally sucked, but I would take 10, over a Marxist!
The biggest driver of debt is social programs, but the libs don't want to cut any of that even if it means bankrubting the country - which is some sick shit. You don't debate worth a shit either - you are vehement name callers, and deflectors. I was hoping to hear from one lib who is concerned about the debt, but your all fucked up!
The tea baggers say " cut the spending, balance the budget " but that is sacrilegious to a dem. Now I understand why congress is bogged down.

 

[Steelplate]

Duped cries
Why do liberals ignore the debt?

I thought you're G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers were going to take care of the debt?
What the f*ck are they waiting for?

Duped Abandoned his thread without telling us when the G0ddam nut-sucking Baggers
were going to balance the budget.

Isn't that what they promised to do?
Its two years now.



For Republicans, Lying is a way of life.
I didn't abandon shit - some people have to work all day; I'm not entitled to shit- just the way I like it . I'm not a republican either - I'm very conservative.
So much digression I never see libs talking about debt solutions - why? Simple fucking question unless you ask a bunch of libs. First thing out is Bush. I think Bush fiscally sucked, but I would take 10, over a Marxist!
The biggest driver of debt is social programs, but the libs don't want to cut any of that even if it means bankrubting the country - which is some sick shit. You don't debate worth a shit either - you are vehement name callers, and deflectors. I was hoping to hear from one lib who is concerned about the debt, but your all fucked up!
The tea baggers say " cut the spending, balance the budget " but that is sacrilegious to a dem. Now I understand why congress is bogged down.

Yeah...don't address any responses from "libs ", just keep carrying on with your tirade.

I mean, you do realize that all those social programs used to be well funded, right? They were funded by a strong, taxpaying middle class. But nowadays we have people who USED to earn a pretty good living working at Burger King because of outsourcing for slave labor and downsizing because of technological breakthroughs that increase efficiency. Because of these things, the burden on those social programs has increased, and the number of people who used to help pay for them has decreased.

Btw, by the same token.....ending corporate welfare and paying a decent wage to employees is sacrilegious to a tea bagger.

Now, if you'll excuse me...I have to go to my job where I'll work all day....FOR A GOOD SOLID WAGE AND AN EXCELLENT BENEFITS PACKAGE.....one of the few places you can still get that in this country.....the public sector. Used to be that there were jobs everywhere where a HS graduate could do that....nowadays you need to go 100k in debt to find a job like what I have....if you're lucky.

 

[DiamondDave]

Diamond Dave certainly does not understand the history of America. It succeeded, in part, because great wealth has always been mitigated by "redistribution" through taxation policies. I'm certain he will deny this, but it is also certainly true.

What absolute rubbish

How the fuck is rewarding non-contribution mitigating economic success?? We'll be waiting for that answer

 

[DiamondDave]

Exactly....the only reasonable way to get out of debt and deficit situations is for MORE people to rise into the middle class......and no, it's NOT Socialism..... it's called a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. If people who are working full time can barely afford to survive.....then it's not a fair day's pay.

More people making more money.means a much larger tax base. It also means that they have disposable income to buy shit....when they buy...it's good for business and the economy. Trickle down doesn't work....no matter what the right wing propaganda machine tells you.

No.. what is absurd is the notion that you tax higher as a way to prosperity... and that you spend your way out of debt

Who said anything about "taxing higher"? I'm talking about curtailing the corporate gravy train that's been eating this country alive since the 80's. I'm talking about punishing businesses who go the slave labor route and rewarding businesses who keep or bring jobs back to America. I'm talking about giving even better breaks to businesses who pay their employees a proper, living wage and punishing businesses who can afford to, but don't.

Spending your way out of debt? It's quite possible to do just that....our infrastructure is crumbling around us....bridges, dams, roads, water and sewage systems, our electrical grid that LOSES 60%(IIRC) of the power we generate. Those public works projects also provide work for private industry to manufacture the materials needed, private local businesses like restaurants, hotels and shopping....

All of that creates business....which increases the tax base....employs people. which increases the tax base.....and improves our country's ability to be more efficient and better compete in a global market....which makes businesses more money and cost less to move goods and provide services.

Instead of investing in a continual war that only serves to keep the weapons and munitions manufacturers flush with cash, let's invest in ourselves. Hell, if it makes you happy....I'm all for welfare recipients working in menial positions on these projects in exchange for their benefits.

The government is not to reward or punish business.. government is to ensure the freedom for business to run while regulating interstate commerce

It is NOT possible to spend your way out of debt... this is absolute rubbish

you and your ilk have tried with increases to regulation and increases to people getting assistance.. and what it has led to is more governmental dependence and less people in the income tax base... all the while you continue to increase taxation on those who earn more and whom you vilify to support your big government schemes

 

[Oldguy]

=DiamondDave;6070164]



The government is not to reward or punish business..

It isn't? You mean government has no role to play in prosecuting those who use business as a cover for criminal acts? Or, those whose business practices cause harm to others (think: big banks) or who knowingly market dangerous products or who violate environmental laws? Government has nothing to do with protective tariffs and trade agreements which open new markets to American business or with adopting tax policies which encourage certain businesses to develop?

Government is not only the enabler of business, but it's role as protector of The People from predatory or dangerous business practices is a long recognized and accepted principle.

It is NOT possible to spend your way out of debt... this is absolute rubbish

Yes it is. It's been done before. Increased spending on public jobs and other economic activities puts people to work, which in turn, brings in more personal income and business tax revenue.

you and your ilk have tried with increases to regulation and increases to people getting assistance.. and what it has led to is more governmental dependence and less people in the income tax base... all the while you continue to increase taxation on those who earn more and whom you vilify to support your big government schemes

May I suggest you take a course in Economics 101 or quit drinking the Paul Ryan kool-aid?

 

[Steelplate]

No.. what is absurd is the notion that you tax higher as a way to prosperity... and that you spend your way out of debt

Who said anything about "taxing higher"? I'm talking about curtailing the corporate gravy train that's been eating this country alive since the 80's. I'm talking about punishing businesses who go the slave labor route and rewarding businesses who keep or bring jobs back to America. I'm talking about giving even better breaks to businesses who pay their employees a proper, living wage and punishing businesses who can afford to, but don't.

Spending your way out of debt? It's quite possible to do just that....our infrastructure is crumbling around us....bridges, dams, roads, water and sewage systems, our electrical grid that LOSES 60%(IIRC) of the power we generate. Those public works projects also provide work for private industry to manufacture the materials needed, private local businesses like restaurants, hotels and shopping....

All of that creates business....which increases the tax base....employs people. which increases the tax base.....and improves our country's ability to be more efficient and better compete in a global market....which makes businesses more money and cost less to move goods and provide services.

Instead of investing in a continual war that only serves to keep the weapons and munitions manufacturers flush with cash, let's invest in ourselves. Hell, if it makes you happy....I'm all for welfare recipients working in menial positions on these projects in exchange for their benefits.

The government is not to reward or punish business.. government is to ensure the freedom for business to run while regulating interstate commerce

It is NOT possible to spend your way out of debt... this is absolute rubbish

you and your ilk have tried with increases to regulation and increases to people getting assistance.. and what it has led to is more governmental dependence and less people in the income tax base... all the while you continue to increase taxation on those who earn more and whom you vilify to support your big government schemes

1. When business....excuse me, let me clarify that....When huge Domestic and huge multinational Conglomerates, who have the power to influence our government to benefit them at the expense of small businesses and the workforce....AND to the detriment of our economy and our country as a whole? You're damned right government has a role....Teddy Roosevelt had it right when he busted up monopolies and championed an anti-trust agenda.

The corporations back in his day were tiny compared to the huge entities we have today....they have their hands in everything. They can afford to undercut any competition for any given product or service because they can make up the difference with all the other shit they're involved in.

2. You're flat out wrong. Public Works projects not only put contractors to work, they put all the peripheral businesses to work too....the people who manufacture the materials for the project, the logistics to get the materials to the work site...the mom and pops that feed the workers, the hotels that keep a roof over the worker's heads during the workweek, repair shops, shopping centers....hell, there's probably tens of other things that I'm not thinking of.

All of those things that I mentioned employ people. Employment means expendable income for the workers...bigger profits for the businesses, and more tax revenue all around for government to pay down the debt.

That's just the short term. Imagine if you will....an electrical grid that is even 75% efficient and only 25% gets wasted in transmission, rather than the 40% that we have now. Less power generated, less materials(Coal, Oil, fuel rods) needed to meet our power needs, higher profits for the power companies and lower cost to the consumer. If the power companies even splits the savings with the consumer, that's a solid windfall for both.....for a long time.

Better roads and better planned highways mean faster shipments at a lesser cost....then there's the concept of public safety...Our bridges are still atrocious, our water and sewage treatment systems are to a large degree, on the verge of failure. Our dams haven't been maintained, most not even INSPECTED in decades due to a lack of proper staffing. Our levees are a tragedy waiting to happen...Sure, New Orleans got a lot of attention after Katrina, but there are literally thousands of communities that hold their collective breaths after a few days if heavy rain.

The reason that these things have just been ignored? People like you saying we don't have the money to do it, but can't see beyond your nose to think that all those "social" programs that you hate so much wouldn't be NEARLY as strained if we put those people to work on projects such as this. This was FDR'S vision when he put the welfare system in.....it wasn't "gubmint" money for doing nothing.....it was investing in our people and investing in our country. He used programs like the CCC and the WPA for those projects.

I mean, there's always going to be people who CAN'T work....the folks I work with, for example(the severely developmentally disabled). But I'm of the opinion that those who are able should be forced to, if they want their benefits.

I know....you're going to claim bullshit....which is your right....but it's not.

 

[Duped]

There has been some ( little ) good debate here which I appreciate - I have read every word. However, partisian impetus has forced the thread consistently off topic.
Someone please direct me to where there are liberal discussions about how to address the debt- not the BS that comes out of Obama's mouth, because he has no credibility for me. I don't beleive such debate exist on the liberal side - thus this thread.
For the record: I am not a fan of Bush where fiscal matters are concerned, but Obama has exacerbated the problem enormously, and I fear that if we continue to over spend, we
will pass the event horizon, and this great country I love will fall into total socialism.
We print way too much money; created out of thin air which diminishes the value of our dollar - it steals our equity!
I'm for turning over alot of federal land back to the states. Stop the war on drugs - you can't stop the shit. The deleterious effects are huge-prohibition! Stop giving money to these
fucking countries that hate us - only help our staunch allies! Stop policing the world - woder how much that would save. Balance the budget - you can't spend more than you take in; how fucking stupid is that. It's not what you think you ought to have, it's what you can afford. Oh yea - confiscate everything every illegal has obtained, and aution it off. It is all ill gotten gains. Send them home - Americans need their jobs !

 

[Lakhota]

Romney On Whether We're Better Off: 'Of Course It's Getting Better' | ThinkProgress

Bill Kristol: Obama Has Turned Around The Financial Meltdown 'Pretty Well' | ThinkProgress

Fox's Dobbs: Romney Shouldn't Ask "Are You Better Off" Because "Any Damn Fool Knows In 2008 This Country Was In Crisis" | Video | Media Matters for America

 

[Lakhota]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...a-direct-indirect-result-of-bush-actions.html

 

[Oldguy]

There has been some ( little ) good debate here which I appreciate - I have read every word. However, partisian impetus has forced the thread consistently off topic.
Someone please direct me to where there are liberal discussions about how to address the debt- not the BS that comes out of Obama's mouth, because he has no credibility for me. I don't beleive such debate exist on the liberal side - thus this thread.
For the record: I am not a fan of Bush where fiscal matters are concerned, but Obama has exacerbated the problem enormously, and I fear that if we continue to over spend, we
will pass the event horizon, and this great country I love will fall into total socialism.
We print way too much money; created out of thin air which diminishes the value of our dollar - it steals our equity!
I'm for turning over alot of federal land back to the states. Stop the war on drugs - you can't stop the shit. The deleterious effects are huge-prohibition! Stop giving money to these
fucking countries that hate us - only help our staunch allies! Stop policing the world - woder how much that would save. Balance the budget - you can't spend more than you take in; how fucking stupid is that. It's not what you think you ought to have, it's what you can afford. Oh yea - confiscate everything every illegal has obtained, and aution it off. It is all ill gotten gains. Send them home - Americans need their jobs !

You're complaining about partisanship? LOL

Boy, that's rich!