CDZ Why do Conservatives believe that America is no longer great?

[candycorn]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

How about when we stopped being able to pay the bills without other countries sending us money? Or maybe when it became impossible to start a business without 3 lawyers and 4 ex-govt officials? Maybe when some genius decided it was a schools job to teaching morality and ethics instead of critical thinking? I could go on.

Please do- when exactly did the scales tip so you now no longer think of the United States as a great country?

I don't know if I would specifically put a date on it. Just a continual slide to mediocrity and below. I mean look at where we stand educationally. The population in this country seems to have lost it's drive or something. I notice it glaringly in hiring. Five years ago I would have told you that I couldn't remember even considering hiring some one under 25. Now it would be 30. They seem bothered to have to be there(in an interview), have no interest in anything I say or the job, can barely read, consider math a foreign language, are dressed like a bums, are disrespectful and rude. There just seems to be a different attitude and not for the better. The response to every problem is "what is the govt going to about it".

Howard Cunningham had the same problem in an episode of Happy Days. Amazingly we had to wait 28 years later until a black guy was hired to be President to pronounce the nation isn't "great" any longer.

The theme song to All in the Family bemoaned the same silly stance come to think of it.

--------

To view the problem critically (I am a proud liberal so the question in the OP wasn't addressed to me), one has to assume that we were "great" at one time. By some metrics we were, by some we were not. Personally, I have always thought we were a great place to live, work, raise a family, etc... Personally, outside of Italy; there is no other nation on earth I would want to visit...that should tell you something about how great I think America is. Give me Mt. Zion National Park over the Castles of Europe; a tour of Bryce Canyon over a tour of the Great Wall of China; a trip to Key West over a trip to London any day.

At any rate, if you believe we are "no longer great" or have to be "made great again", it means you thought we were great once and no longer are. Some metrics support that theory; most do not. So I don't buy it.

One thing I will say in the defense of those who no longer believe that the nation is great is that America did become complacent as a nation after WWII. And why wouldn't we. We defeated two imperial powers with minimal material support from our allies; our economy was booming, there were no serious threats on the world stage and the expectation was that every nation on earth would want to be like us since we were prosperous, peaceful, benevolent, and had destiny at our mercy. That worked for about 15 years. The 1960's saw the rise of enemies like Russia; the other "metrics" that measured America differently began to speak up against institutionalized discrimination, a proxy war in Vietnam saw us losing. Then the political scandals of the early 1970's hit. In the 1980's we moved from the years of pain to the years of gain with Reagan and spent the Soviets into submission. Someone forgot to tell the Congress that the plan was to spend a lot for a while, then strip away the spending after word because every President after Reagan saw what he did and mirrored it...and hoped to mirror his 70+% approval rating in retirement.

What was happening during the 70's and 80's though was larger than our turmoil domestically or the international issues. We learned (or did we?) that not every nation wants to be like us. What took us 175 years to learn (1776-1950) was that America is a very complicated place. We know this and we accept this. Most people who live in large cities are used to having radio stations that do not broadcast in English on their dial; television stations that are in a foreign language, and having to repeat orders slowly for the guy at In and Out burger who just doesn't understand English as well. We don't worry about it; we put up with it, and it's second nature. We are all capitalists to where we sell our labor for the most advantageous ends but beyond that, little social knitting keeps us together. This evening, I will likely have Mexican food for dinner. I would imagine that some Mexican Americans are having pizza. And some Italian Americans will enjoy hot dogs or Hamburger Helper. We have a commonality of a goal and that is pretty much it; socially, we stick to whatever satisfies us.

If you are John Q. Chancellor from Nation X, would you rather have one pretty much homogeneous group of people who pretty much think like you in the main and disagree around the edges or would you rather have opposition that uses a different language, different symbols, and is determined to get their piece of the power? I'd opt for the former. I think most of the supporters of Mr. Trump would too. The Leave it to Beaver 1950's.

Those days are gone and they are not coming back (if they were ever here to begin with). We're still a great nation; just a different type of greatness.

 

[candycorn]

When I could no longer buy lawn darts or a gas can that works. Seriously, when it became clear that every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated by some bureaucrats. Throw in agendas and agencies with unending power like the EPA.

Dude! Who the heck are you? Where do you live? What in God's name are you trying to do? Sure from time to time I encounter a government regulation that is an irritant, but is "every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated?" Not even close. How could I not think America is a great place? I've:

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing.
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.

I think some folks just sit around looking for stuff to gripe about and upon finding it infer that the whole nation has gone to hell in a handbasket. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The U.S. has its problems, that's for sure, but not great, not by a long shot!!

I have much the same personal experience as you. Unfortunately, I don't see this for the next generation. I mean go down your list.

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• I'm watching families with 2 college educated parents struggle to pay the bills.
• 
  
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Those same families struggle to provide healthcare for their kids.
• 
  
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Those same families not even considering the best schools because they can't afford it.
• 
  
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Often finding a job is a major victory, I recently read a report stating that 50% of college grads are working at jobs that don't require a college degree.
• 
  
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Home ownership at levels not seen since the mid 60s.
• 
  
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing
• . Depends on where you live.
• 
  
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• That remains the same.
• 
  
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Agrred
• 
  
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.
• Agreed

It's not that country is now a horrible place, just heading in the wrong direction really, really fast .

I think we could all benefit from what is taught in this clip from The West Wing....

To understand it, you have to know that Rob Lowe's character worked at a firm called "Gage Whitney" and they were going to make him a partner in the law firm before he decided to join the Bartlet Campaign as a speech writer and senior aide.... In this scene, He's holding a meeting with his opposite numbers who work for Congresspersons who want to use the upcoming release of economic news for political advantage...



The wealthy used to understand this. Often times (and for good reason) many do not understand it today....

Those that benefitted from the wealth's largess used to take full advantage of the opportunities of scholarships and internships and what-have-you....now many want to be paid for internships and use their scholarships to go on a 4 year drinking binge.

Its a cyclical thing....

 

[gipper]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

I am not a con but if you don't know the answer to your question, you are not living in reality.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It
is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in
my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country

Before the first 1/2 white president took office, many Conservatives , didn't think, Hope and Change, The Fundamental Transformation of America, and the lowering of the oceans and healing the planet, would be a good thing for America. We also didn't think that 'Energy prices must necessarily skyrocket, or redistribution of wealth", would do America any good, and since Obama took office, 1 in 5 children(was 1 in 6) are now hungry. The most ever in the history of America US citizens in poverty(since the war on poverty by LBJ). Choice that was what you could have before Obama took it away with Obamacare, which you chose to have health care or not, and if not, you are FINED and your taxes taken by the IRS to pay that fine. Or how much of a racial divide has been created by that 1/2 white guy, who says "black lives matter" yet in Chicago his home town, more blacks are killed by blacks, and not a peep from Der Leader. Or watch our children die from diseases that once were eradicated from America, but brought across the border by the horde of illegals who will be future Democrat voters, getting free stuff, yet poor US citizens living in tents on the streets. Yeah, it is hard for US to feel proud of this once great nation, as the fundamental transformation has taken it from being the "Leader of the Free World" to just another 3rd world nation where a man with a phone and a pen can have people executed without a trial, property confiscated, or go to jail, for just talking about the religion of peace.

 

[baileyn45]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

How about when we stopped being able to pay the bills without other countries sending us money? Or maybe when it became impossible to start a business without 3 lawyers and 4 ex-govt officials? Maybe when some genius decided it was a schools job to teaching morality and ethics instead of critical thinking? I could go on.

Please do- when exactly did the scales tip so you now no longer think of the United States as a great country?

I don't know if I would specifically put a date on it. Just a continual slide to mediocrity and below. I mean look at where we stand educationally. The population in this country seems to have lost it's drive or something. I notice it glaringly in hiring. Five years ago I would have told you that I couldn't remember even considering hiring some one under 25. Now it would be 30. They seem bothered to have to be there(in an interview), have no interest in anything I say or the job, can barely read, consider math a foreign language, are dressed like a bums, are disrespectful and rude. There just seems to be a different attitude and not for the better. The response to every problem is "what is the govt going to about it".

Howard Cunningham had the same problem in an episode of Happy Days. Amazingly we had to wait 28 years later until a black guy was hired to be President to pronounce the nation isn't "great" any longer.

The theme song to All in the Family bemoaned the same silly stance come to think of it.

--------

To view the problem critically (I am a proud liberal so the question in the OP wasn't addressed to me), one has to assume that we were "great" at one time. By some metrics we were, by some we were not. Personally, I have always thought we were a great place to live, work, raise a family, etc... Personally, outside of Italy; there is no other nation on earth I would want to visit...that should tell you something about how great I think America is. Give me Mt. Zion National Park over the Castles of Europe; a tour of Bryce Canyon over a tour of the Great Wall of China; a trip to Key West over a trip to London any day.

At any rate, if you believe we are "no longer great" or have to be "made great again", it means you thought we were great once and no longer are. Some metrics support that theory; most do not. So I don't buy it.

One thing I will say in the defense of those who no longer believe that the nation is great is that America did become complacent as a nation after WWII. And why wouldn't we. We defeated two imperial powers with minimal material support from our allies; our economy was booming, there were no serious threats on the world stage and the expectation was that every nation on earth would want to be like us since we were prosperous, peaceful, benevolent, and had destiny at our mercy. That worked for about 15 years. The 1960's saw the rise of enemies like Russia; the other "metrics" that measured America differently began to speak up against institutionalized discrimination, a proxy war in Vietnam saw us losing. Then the political scandals of the early 1970's hit. In the 1980's we moved from the years of pain to the years of gain with Reagan and spent the Soviets into submission. Someone forgot to tell the Congress that the plan was to spend a lot for a while, then strip away the spending after word because every President after Reagan saw what he did and mirrored it...and hoped to mirror his 70+% approval rating in retirement.

What was happening during the 70's and 80's though was larger than our turmoil domestically or the international issues. We learned (or did we?) that not every nation wants to be like us. What took us 175 years to learn (1776-1950) was that America is a very complicated place. We know this and we accept this. Most people who live in large cities are used to having radio stations that do not broadcast in English on their dial; television stations that are in a foreign language, and having to repeat orders slowly for the guy at In and Out burger who just doesn't understand English as well. We don't worry about it; we put up with it, and it's second nature. We are all capitalists to where we sell our labor for the most advantageous ends but beyond that, little social knitting keeps us together. This evening, I will likely have Mexican food for dinner. I would imagine that some Mexican Americans are having pizza. And some Italian Americans will enjoy hot dogs or Hamburger Helper. We have a commonality of a goal and that is pretty much it; socially, we stick to whatever satisfies us.

If you are John Q. Chancellor from Nation X, would you rather have one pretty much homogeneous group of people who pretty much think like you in the main and disagree around the edges or would you rather have opposition that uses a different language, different symbols, and is determined to get their piece of the power? I'd opt for the former. I think most of the supporters of Mr. Trump would too. The Leave it to Beaver 1950's.

Those days are gone and they are not coming back (if they were ever here to begin with). We're still a great nation; just a different type of greatness.

You'll note I don't place this countries ills on the current adm. The issues I see facing this country have been accumulating almost since Mr Cunningham was on TV.

For me the question isn't the "great" or "not great" debate, it's where we are and where were heading. Howard Cunningham wasn't looking at $20tr in debt, the fed hadn't just quadrupled the money supply, there wasn't record or near record debt at the consumer, corporate and student level, our infrastructure wasn't crumbling, our education system wasn't a mess, a college student wasn't coming out of school $60k in debt, we had the strongest manufacturing base in the world, we weren't facing the largest bond bubble in history, the stock market wasn't being propped up by 0% interest money from the fed, people could actually afford to go to the doctor, we weren't looking around the world at recession, currency devaluations, commodity prices collapsing, negative interest rates, international trade at a stand still, we're standing at the precipice of a demographic tidal wave that would strain our entitlement system in good times. Sadly again, I could go on.

When it comes to a black president, I see the exact opposite of what you probably do. The left in this country is so desperate for this adm to be seen as the greatest ever, that they're willing to pretend everything is just peachy. This country is facing problems at a level we've never come close to before. Think of what caused the last mess, banks over leveraged with derivatives, stock swaps and all kinds of nonsense. Has any of that been corrected? The answer is no, those problems are worse now than they were in 2007. By many accounts, much worse.

You know I've always had great faith in the American people but even that is waning. We have so many people who are now tied to entitlements or have just given up participating in the job market that I just don't see the same spirit I used to. This country always had a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" attitude, now it's "what's the govt going to do about it". And I see that attitude more in the young than anyone. Not good.

I may currently come across as a doom and gloom kind of person. I'm not. I'm a small business guy, being pragmatic and forward looking is the only way I've survived. Looking forward now all I'm seeing is a cliff.
Meanwhile I'm supposed to decide whether to put my faith in Hillary, Trump, Sanders, etc. Good grief.

Democrats or republicans at this point it doesn't matter, neither of them have any answers, they're both tied to big money and telling people what they want to hear.

Many of us have been saying it for the last 20 years, this can't end well.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

How about when we stopped being able to pay the bills without other countries sending us money? Or maybe when it became impossible to start a business without 3 lawyers and 4 ex-govt officials? Maybe when some genius decided it was a schools job to teaching morality and ethics instead of critical thinking? I could go on.

Please do- when exactly did the scales tip so you now no longer think of the United States as a great country?

I don't know if I would specifically put a date on it. Just a continual slide to mediocrity and below. I mean look at where we stand educationally. The population in this country seems to have lost it's drive or something. I notice it glaringly in hiring. Five years ago I would have told you that I couldn't remember even considering hiring some one under 25. Now it would be 30. They seem bothered to have to be there(in an interview), have no interest in anything I say or the job, can barely read, consider math a foreign language, are dressed like a bums, are disrespectful and rude. There just seems to be a different attitude and not for the better. The response to every problem is "what is the govt going to about it".

Howard Cunningham had the same problem in an episode of Happy Days. Amazingly we had to wait 28 years later until a black guy was hired to be President to pronounce the nation isn't "great" any longer.

The theme song to All in the Family bemoaned the same silly stance come to think of it.

--------

To view the problem critically (I am a proud liberal so the question in the OP wasn't addressed to me), one has to assume that we were "great" at one time. By some metrics we were, by some we were not. Personally, I have always thought we were a great place to live, work, raise a family, etc... Personally, outside of Italy; there is no other nation on earth I would want to visit...that should tell you something about how great I think America is. Give me Mt. Zion National Park over the Castles of Europe; a tour of Bryce Canyon over a tour of the Great Wall of China; a trip to Key West over a trip to London any day.

At any rate, if you believe we are "no longer great" or have to be "made great again", it means you thought we were great once and no longer are. Some metrics support that theory; most do not. So I don't buy it.

One thing I will say in the defense of those who no longer believe that the nation is great is that America did become complacent as a nation after WWII. And why wouldn't we. We defeated two imperial powers with minimal material support from our allies; our economy was booming, there were no serious threats on the world stage and the expectation was that every nation on earth would want to be like us since we were prosperous, peaceful, benevolent, and had destiny at our mercy. That worked for about 15 years. The 1960's saw the rise of enemies like Russia; the other "metrics" that measured America differently began to speak up against institutionalized discrimination, a proxy war in Vietnam saw us losing. Then the political scandals of the early 1970's hit. In the 1980's we moved from the years of pain to the years of gain with Reagan and spent the Soviets into submission. Someone forgot to tell the Congress that the plan was to spend a lot for a while, then strip away the spending after word because every President after Reagan saw what he did and mirrored it...and hoped to mirror his 70+% approval rating in retirement.

What was happening during the 70's and 80's though was larger than our turmoil domestically or the international issues. We learned (or did we?) that not every nation wants to be like us. What took us 175 years to learn (1776-1950) was that America is a very complicated place. We know this and we accept this. Most people who live in large cities are used to having radio stations that do not broadcast in English on their dial; television stations that are in a foreign language, and having to repeat orders slowly for the guy at In and Out burger who just doesn't understand English as well. We don't worry about it; we put up with it, and it's second nature. We are all capitalists to where we sell our labor for the most advantageous ends but beyond that, little social knitting keeps us together. This evening, I will likely have Mexican food for dinner. I would imagine that some Mexican Americans are having pizza. And some Italian Americans will enjoy hot dogs or Hamburger Helper. We have a commonality of a goal and that is pretty much it; socially, we stick to whatever satisfies us.

If you are John Q. Chancellor from Nation X, would you rather have one pretty much homogeneous group of people who pretty much think like you in the main and disagree around the edges or would you rather have opposition that uses a different language, different symbols, and is determined to get their piece of the power? I'd opt for the former. I think most of the supporters of Mr. Trump would too. The Leave it to Beaver 1950's.

Those days are gone and they are not coming back (if they were ever here to begin with). We're still a great nation; just a different type of greatness.

You'll note I don't place this countries ills on the current adm. The issues I see facing this country have been accumulating almost since Mr Cunningham was on TV.

For me the question isn't the "great" or "not great" debate, it's where we are and where were heading. Howard Cunningham wasn't looking at $20tr in debt, the fed hadn't just quadrupled the money supply, there wasn't record or near record debt at the consumer, corporate and student level, our infrastructure wasn't crumbling, our education system wasn't a mess, a college student wasn't coming out of school $60k in debt, we had the strongest manufacturing base in the world, we weren't facing the largest bond bubble in history, the stock market wasn't being propped up by 0% interest money from the fed, people could actually afford to go to the doctor, we weren't looking around the world at recession, currency devaluations, commodity prices collapsing, negative interest rates, international trade at a stand still, we're standing at the precipice of a demographic tidal wave that would strain our entitlement system in good times. Sadly again, I could go on.

When it comes to a black president, I see the exact opposite of what you probably do. The left in this country is so desperate for this adm to be seen as the greatest ever, that they're willing to pretend everything is just peachy. This country is facing problems at a level we've never come close to before. Think of what caused the last mess, banks over leveraged with derivatives, stock swaps and all kinds of nonsense. Has any of that been corrected? The answer is no, those problems are worse now than they were in 2007. By many accounts, much worse.

You know I've always had great faith in the American people but even that is waning. We have so many people who are now tied to entitlements or have just given up participating in the job market that I just don't see the same spirit I used to. This country always had a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" attitude, now it's "what's the govt going to do about it". And I see that attitude more in the young than anyone. Not good.

I may currently come across as a doom and gloom kind of person. I'm not. I'm a small business guy, being pragmatic and forward looking is the only way I've survived. Looking forward now all I'm seeing is a cliff.
Meanwhile I'm supposed to decide whether to put my faith in Hillary, Trump, Sanders, etc. Good grief.

Democrats or republicans at this point it doesn't matter, neither of them have any answers, they're both tied to big money and telling people what they want to hear.

Many of us have been saying it for the last 20 years, this can't end well.

I will say that there has been 1 thing in common that has torn America down and put it in the toilet. It really started with George H.W. Bush 41, then Clinton, then 42, now Obama, all of them (r)s and (d)s is liberalism. They have spent money like they were drunken sailors, taking a billion dollar deficit and making it trillion dollar deficits. All in the name of liberal compassion. But with liberalism it is all about equality, everyone will be equal, equally poor and equally miserable, but those liberal elites will have all the money(remember liberals can be R's and D's). That is what leads US to the "Road to Serfdom".
The Road to Serfdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Road to Serfdom (German: Der Weg zur Knechtschaft) is a book written by the Austrian-born economist and philosopher Friedrich von Hayek (1899–1992) between 1940–1943, in which he "[warns] of the danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning."[1] He further argues that the abandonment of individualism and classical liberalism inevitably leads to a loss of freedom, the creation of an oppressive society, the tyranny of a dictator, and the serfdom of the individual. Significantly, Hayek challenged the general view among British academics that fascism (and National Socialism) was a capitalist reaction against socialism. He argued that fascism, National Socialism and socialism had common roots in central economic planning and empowering the state over the individual.

 

[baileyn45]

When I could no longer buy lawn darts or a gas can that works. Seriously, when it became clear that every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated by some bureaucrats. Throw in agendas and agencies with unending power like the EPA.

Dude! Who the heck are you? Where do you live? What in God's name are you trying to do? Sure from time to time I encounter a government regulation that is an irritant, but is "every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated?" Not even close. How could I not think America is a great place? I've:

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing.
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.

I think some folks just sit around looking for stuff to gripe about and upon finding it infer that the whole nation has gone to hell in a handbasket. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The U.S. has its problems, that's for sure, but not great, not by a long shot!!

I have much the same personal experience as you. Unfortunately, I don't see this for the next generation. I mean go down your list.

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• I'm watching families with 2 college educated parents struggle to pay the bills.
• 
  
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Those same families struggle to provide healthcare for their kids.
• 
  
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Those same families not even considering the best schools because they can't afford it.
• 
  
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Often finding a job is a major victory, I recently read a report stating that 50% of college grads are working at jobs that don't require a college degree.
• 
  
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Home ownership at levels not seen since the mid 60s.
• 
  
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing
• . Depends on where you live.
• 
  
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• That remains the same.
• 
  
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Agrred
• 
  
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.
• Agreed

It's not that country is now a horrible place, just heading in the wrong direction really, really fast .

I think we could all benefit from what is taught in this clip from The West Wing....

To understand it, you have to know that Rob Lowe's character worked at a firm called "Gage Whitney" and they were going to make him a partner in the law firm before he decided to join the Bartlet Campaign as a speech writer and senior aide.... In this scene, He's holding a meeting with his opposite numbers who work for Congresspersons who want to use the upcoming release of economic news for political advantage...



The wealthy used to understand this. Often times (and for good reason) many do not understand it today....

Those that benefitted from the wealth's largess used to take full advantage of the opportunities of scholarships and internships and what-have-you....now many want to be paid for internships and use their scholarships to go on a 4 year drinking binge.

Its a cyclical thing....

When I could no longer buy lawn darts or a gas can that works. Seriously, when it became clear that every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated by some bureaucrats. Throw in agendas and agencies with unending power like the EPA.

Dude! Who the heck are you? Where do you live? What in God's name are you trying to do? Sure from time to time I encounter a government regulation that is an irritant, but is "every single aspect of my life in now over-regulated?" Not even close. How could I not think America is a great place? I've:

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing.
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.

I think some folks just sit around looking for stuff to gripe about and upon finding it infer that the whole nation has gone to hell in a handbasket. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The U.S. has its problems, that's for sure, but not great, not by a long shot!!

I have much the same personal experience as you. Unfortunately, I don't see this for the next generation. I mean go down your list.

• Paid my taxes and have money left to enjoy life.
• I'm watching families with 2 college educated parents struggle to pay the bills.
• 
  
• Raised three kids who've never wanted for thing.
• Those same families struggle to provide healthcare for their kids.
• 
  
• Been educated in some of the best schools and universities on the planet.
• Those same families not even considering the best schools because they can't afford it.
• 
  
• Enjoy a rewarding and interesting career, one that is entirely of my choosing.
• Often finding a job is a major victory, I recently read a report stating that 50% of college grads are working at jobs that don't require a college degree.
• 
  
• Bought/built homes in four states.
• Home ownership at levels not seen since the mid 60s.
• 
  
• Have access to among the best health care to be had.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Travel the country and the globe weekly.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Eat a variety of foods from burgers and fries to delicacies from around the world, all in the U.S.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Party like it's 1999 and 1979 at will.
• If you can afford it. More and more less likely.
• 
  
• Walk America's streets in fear of nobody and nothing
• . Depends on where you live.
• 
  
• Bitch and moan about nearly every injustice I see, and neither I nor my family suffer legally, socially or politically for it. (other than headaches and sadness from the BS I see on this site)
• That remains the same.
• 
  
• Have never been wrongfully accused of a crime.
• Agrred
• 
  
• Not once had to worry about the horrors of war, pestilence or famine happening in my backyard.
• Agreed

It's not that country is now a horrible place, just heading in the wrong direction really, really fast .

I think we could all benefit from what is taught in this clip from The West Wing....

To understand it, you have to know that Rob Lowe's character worked at a firm called "Gage Whitney" and they were going to make him a partner in the law firm before he decided to join the Bartlet Campaign as a speech writer and senior aide.... In this scene, He's holding a meeting with his opposite numbers who work for Congresspersons who want to use the upcoming release of economic news for political advantage...



The wealthy used to understand this. Often times (and for good reason) many do not understand it today....

Those that benefitted from the wealth's largess used to take full advantage of the opportunities of scholarships and internships and what-have-you....now many want to be paid for internships and use their scholarships to go on a 4 year drinking binge.

Its a cyclical thing....

I could be talked into raising taxes on the super wealthy. However, I see problems. 1. We can't raise enough revenue to get us out of the mess were in. 2. The super wealthy will adjust holdings and practices to avoid new taxes which will lead to diminishing revenues. 3. Any additional revenue we raise will not go to setting our house in order, it will be spent on new spending initiatives based "projected" revenues that will never materialize. In the end it will be the middle class left holding the bag. There's an old adage, for every new dollar we send to Washington they will spend two.

 

[rightwinger]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

 

[edthecynic]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, the size of government, nothing else matters.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The 60's I guess. I wasn't around then but apparently "they" decided that America was bad. Coincidentally, the men who would have kicked the shit out of them were busy in a meat grinder called vietnam at the time. Commies are just that type of cockroach I guess. And yeah, must agree with the so called "liberal view" pointed out by first post... apparently the "liberal" side had a particular hatred for Americans since the 60's.

First post best post.

Funny how Obama wanted to "Fundamentally change America" and you think he though it was still great

How the hell do you reconcile that the country needs to be "fundamentally changed" but is still great?

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

 

[Disgruntled_American]

The 60's I guess. I wasn't around then but apparently "they" decided that America was bad. Coincidentally, the men who would have kicked the shit out of them were busy in a meat grinder called vietnam at the time. Commies are just that type of cockroach I guess. And yeah, must agree with the so called "liberal view" pointed out by first post... apparently the "liberal" side had a particular hatred for Americans since the 60's.

First post best post.

Funny how Obama wanted to "Fundamentally change America" and you think he though it was still great

How the hell do you reconcile that the country needs to be "fundamentally changed" but is still great?

Something can be great and you can want to make it better, thus fundamentally changing it to make it better. Now, I don't agree with many policies of Obama but he isn't some super secret Muslim American hating socialist communist fascist president either.

Cell phones when they came out were great, however, they have been made better can do so much more than their predecessors. Are you saying that once something is great it can't be made better?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The 60's I guess. I wasn't around then but apparently "they" decided that America was bad. Coincidentally, the men who would have kicked the shit out of them were busy in a meat grinder called vietnam at the time. Commies are just that type of cockroach I guess. And yeah, must agree with the so called "liberal view" pointed out by first post... apparently the "liberal" side had a particular hatred for Americans since the 60's.

First post best post.

Funny how Obama wanted to "Fundamentally change America" and you think he though it was still great

How the hell do you reconcile that the country needs to be "fundamentally changed" but is still great?

Something can be great and you can want to make it better, thus fundamentally changing it to make it better. Now, I don't agree with many policies of Obama but he isn't some super secret Muslim American hating socialist communist fascist president either.

Cell phones when they came out were great, however, they have been made better can do so much more than their predecessors. Are you saying that once something is great it can't be made better?

You don't "fundamentally change" something to make it better

Fundamental change means changing into something else entirely

 

[Disgruntled_American]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

You are wrong, it isn't about Republican or Democrat President but a "CONSERVATIVE" president that will
1. stop the corrupt politicians who keep putting earmarks on bills that would supply the country with its needs, pay national debt, military, Social Security, not pet projects like a bridge to nowhere.
2. stop using federal agencies to punish those who disagree with their ideas and values, like 501c3's and the IRS.
3. Get the EPA to be a overseer of companies and REPORT not create new laws that punish businesses for creating a product or service.
4. Get rid of the Federal Reserve(central bank) put America back on the gold standard, which then the government could no longer overspend and create more debt.
5. Privatize education, stop having property taxes used to funnel money to the NEA and NFTA, so that money could come back as campaign funds.
6. Stop bailing out FAILED companies, for if it is meant to FAIL, then no one wants it, so try something else, that is what Einstein did, why cant everyone else.
7. Stop the Cronie Capitalism where money from the government is loaned out to companies "FOR RESEARCH". Let companies charge what price they deem the product or service is worth, if the people are happy to pay, then it will work.
Allowing people to do what will make them better, using God given skills to the best of their abilities, not tell one group or another because of the color of their skin, they are at a disadvantage or have a certain privilege over the others.
Just because America has an economy better than Europe(because Europe sucks) and our Military has been decimated by Obama, NO we don't see America as great.
When liberals always talk about FAIRNESS, life was never meant to be fair, but when you don't have a liberal government in your way, then even the likes of Martin Luther King Jr. can be a great man.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

You are wrong, it isn't about Republican or Democrat President but a "CONSERVATIVE" president that will
1. stop the corrupt politicians who keep putting earmarks on bills that would supply the country with its needs, pay national debt, military, Social Security, not pet projects like a bridge to nowhere.
2. stop using federal agencies to punish those who disagree with their ideas and values, like 501c3's and the IRS.
3. Get the EPA to be a overseer of companies and REPORT not create new laws that punish businesses for creating a product or service.
4. Get rid of the Federal Reserve(central bank) put America back on the gold standard, which then the government could no longer overspend and create more debt.
5. Privatize education, stop having property taxes used to funnel money to the NEA and NFTA, so that money could come back as campaign funds.
6. Stop bailing out FAILED companies, for if it is meant to FAIL, then no one wants it, so try something else, that is what Einstein did, why cant everyone else.
7. Stop the Cronie Capitalism where money from the government is loaned out to companies "FOR RESEARCH". Let companies charge what price they deem the product or service is worth, if the people are happy to pay, then it will work.
Allowing people to do what will make them better, using God given skills to the best of their abilities, not tell one group or another because of the color of their skin, they are at a disadvantage or have a certain privilege over the others.
Just because America has an economy better than Europe(because Europe sucks) and our Military has been decimated by Obama, NO we don't see America as great.
When liberals always talk about FAIRNESS, life was never meant to be fair, but when you don't have a liberal government in your way, then even the likes of Martin Luther King Jr. can be a great man.

Reagan said he was a Conservative yet he grew the government as much or more than any democrat ever did in the past 5 decades

 

[Disgruntled_American]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

 

[Disgruntled_American]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

You are wrong, it isn't about Republican or Democrat President but a "CONSERVATIVE" president that will
1. stop the corrupt politicians who keep putting earmarks on bills that would supply the country with its needs, pay national debt, military, Social Security, not pet projects like a bridge to nowhere.
2. stop using federal agencies to punish those who disagree with their ideas and values, like 501c3's and the IRS.
3. Get the EPA to be a overseer of companies and REPORT not create new laws that punish businesses for creating a product or service.
4. Get rid of the Federal Reserve(central bank) put America back on the gold standard, which then the government could no longer overspend and create more debt.
5. Privatize education, stop having property taxes used to funnel money to the NEA and NFTA, so that money could come back as campaign funds.
6. Stop bailing out FAILED companies, for if it is meant to FAIL, then no one wants it, so try something else, that is what Einstein did, why cant everyone else.
7. Stop the Cronie Capitalism where money from the government is loaned out to companies "FOR RESEARCH". Let companies charge what price they deem the product or service is worth, if the people are happy to pay, then it will work.
Allowing people to do what will make them better, using God given skills to the best of their abilities, not tell one group or another because of the color of their skin, they are at a disadvantage or have a certain privilege over the others.
Just because America has an economy better than Europe(because Europe sucks) and our Military has been decimated by Obama, NO we don't see America as great.
When liberals always talk about FAIRNESS, life was never meant to be fair, but when you don't have a liberal government in your way, then even the likes of Martin Luther King Jr. can be a great man.

You do realize a conservative president has no power to do what you labeled right? Especially number 4. This is what we call a dreamland for conservatives. It is why I laugh at all those on the right that are freaked out over Bernie when in fact Bernie couldn't do almost anything of what he is promising.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

The result is the same more debt and more government