Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

[SmarterThanHick]

why do you assume I'm upset? and why do you assume I'm a teacher?

 

[Nemo Securus]

Your response is nothing less than misdirection, which I will be blatantly rubbing your nose in line by line.

First off, not once have I claimed to be a Christian, or believer in creationism. Why do you assume either?

And I have not once claimed you are a Christian. What you have claimed was that you seek to follow Jesus's teachings. That kinda makes you a Christian - see your nearest dictionary if you disagree. (see? now I'm saying it).

I also have never said we should live like he Jewish people of that day.

No, what you said was "The Bible offers up a great way to live your life. Why would you dispute that?". This is false, due to the stonings, slavery, etc that has already been pointed out. You're just trying to backpedal away from the bible now.

And you are only poor when you take in to account what qualifies you as poor in what society. The poor in America have it a lot better off than the poor in Ethiopia. So no I have not sold all my possessions, nor have I said I was a Christian or that I even know anyone who in my opinion is in fact a REAL Christian.

So you claim "If we all strived to live how [Jesus] did, we would be happy." and then when called out on the fact that Jesus preached to sell possessions and give everything to the poor, you claim you haven't done that. And instead of responding by saying how you can resolve that conflict between what you say and how you actually live, you instead try to minimize poverty in the US? That still leaves the incongruity. Doesn't address the problem at all. It's not like you should completely disregard the teachings of Jesus because the poor aren't as bad off nowadays. Heck, you even identified where you should be sending your money/possessions!

Wars have been fought in the name of religion, show me once where Jesus said to wage war on nations in his name.

No one claimed he did, so why are you asking me to show you that? What you said was "IF we tried to live the way he did. It is very very very possible we would have happy lives. Would nations fight over oil if we didn't need it for our materialistic wants?"
Insinuating that petty fighting would stop existing by people claiming to follow the teachings of jesus has been very clearly shown to be incorrect; not because the ideals themselves are bad, but because no one actually follows them. You yourself, while claiming everyone should follow them, don't follow them. So if the preacher is the hypocrite, why do you assume it will be any better for others?

I never claimed I seek to follow anything, all I said was it is a good way to live your life. A meaning one way out of many.

You said those who oppose my side with the word evolution in quotes...suggesting i do not believe in evolution.

Maybe you missed the part where Jesus said what he did about stoning. And the part where he never said slavery was right. It's no secret that the old and new testaments don't always agree. They were both written at very different times and for very different reasons IMO. Back to my original point that seems to have escaped those of you trying to make me look dumb; If certain points of the bible are not true, does it mean the Ten Commandments are something we should not follow? Does it mean that being materialistc is smart? I am not being a preacher all I am saying is why can't science and religion coexist?


Maybe you also missed the point of what I said about poverty in the US. Funny how those who are supposed to be OPEN MINDED find it hardest to accept (not believe) what others believe. What I mean was you acted like the word poor was a bad thing. When really it is only bad when you think of where you place your values. Can you not be happy without having nice clothes/house/cars?


OK once again you pointed out the fact that I live in "society". Good job. Yes it is a fact, I haven't sold everything I own. Guess what I am still happy too, but does that mean if I were to live the life Jesus taught, that I wouldn't be happy also. Like I have said over and over, it is not the only way to happiness, but A way nonetheless.


If you lived as Jesus taught it is true, petty fighting would cease. Which is also my reason for saying that not many people, especially none that I know personally have lived (IN MY OPINION!!!!!) a TRUE CHRISTIAN LIFE. Just as you said, to insinuate petty fighting would stop existing by people claiming to follow the teachings of Jesus has been very clearly shown to be incorrect. But lets recognize the fact that you added one key word. CLAIMING. I could claim to be D.B. Cooper, does that make it true? I think there are too many people out there CLAIMING to follow Jesus, but actually missing the point all together. For example, those "Christians" who believe honestly the world is only a couple thousand years old, and that children shouldn't be allowed to learn evolution.

Evolution/Creationism isn't the point of Jesus' life.

 

[Care4all]

why does it bother you ***t others do not believe what you believe?

Do you need approval from others for your own personal beliefs, to make you feel secure in your own position?

Do you have to insult or bash the beliefs of others in order to strengthen your own position?

No, we need to smother your position so that it doesn't wind up in our school systems, government, and medicine. If you or anyone else wants to go be ignorant or uneducated on your own, be my guest.

Jimminnee Christmas HICK, you are a complete asshole...quite the bitch too....

I have NEVER recommended that anything in my religion be brought in to our schools...and thank God there are not that many people that are as intolerant, and snotty, and miserable and insecure, as you!

Good grief!

Care

 

[KittenKoder]

why do you assume I'm upset? and why do you assume I'm a teacher?

You really did not comprehend my extremely simple question.

 

[Setarcos]

Jesus didn't have slaves.

Nor did he do anything to oppose those who did.

Bad things don't happen because of evil men...

Wars have been fought in the name of religion, show me once where Jesus said to wage war on nations in his name.

Gag of Magog/ Gog and Magog/ GogMagog

Har' Magedo (sp?)

You say some silly things.

 

[Setarcos]

If I tell slaves to obey and never say I disagree with my father's laws commanding slavery, what would you imagine my position was about slavery and abolition?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I never claimed I seek to follow anything, all I said was it is a good way to live your life. A meaning one way out of many.

Wow, be careful not to strain yourself from backpedaling that hard. Are you really claiming that you're preaching all of this garbage and now after being called out on lack of practicing what you preach, claiming it doesn't apply to you? Why preach it then? If it's nothing you want to follow, why preach it?

You said those who oppose my side with the word evolution in quotes...suggesting i do not believe in evolution.

So you understand that evolution is true in its entirety?

Maybe you missed the part where Jesus said what he did about stoning. And the part where he never said slavery was right. It's no secret that the old and new testaments don't always agree.

and maybe YOU missed the part where you yourself said living like they did in the bible was a good thing. This has been thoroughly shown to be not a good thing. Don't try to shuffle all of your mistakes onto "no I was talking about Jesus when I said 'bible', and when I was talking about Jesus I didn't mean it applied to me".

What I mean was you acted like the word poor was a bad thing.

False. You made that assumption entirely on your own. I was simply restating what Jesus preached, and contrasting it to what you practice. Perhaps you should instead assume that Jesus "acted like the word poor was a bad thing".

OK once again you pointed out the fact that I live in "society". Good job. Yes it is a fact, I haven't sold everything I own. Guess what I am still happy too, but does that mean if I were to live the life Jesus taught, that I wouldn't be happy also. Like I have said over and over, it is not the only way to happiness, but A way nonetheless.

Except, happiness is a spectrum. You can be *more* happy than you are right now. If it was A way to happiness, clearly it is worse than how you are living now, and thus need not be considered.

If you lived as Jesus taught it is true, petty fighting would cease.

And IF there was no reason for people to fight, then petty fighting would cease. Oh hey look at that! I can make unreasonable hypothetical that completely ignore practical human behavior and situations as well!

Evolution/Creationism isn't the point of Jesus' life.

No. It's the point of this thread. Perhaps you should reread the title.

No, we need to smother your position so that it doesn't wind up in our school systems, government, and medicine. If you or anyone else wants to go be ignorant or uneducated on your own, be my guest.

Jimminnee Christmas HICK, you are a complete asshole...quite the bitch too....

I have NEVER recommended that anything in my religion be brought in to our schools...

It's funny cuz I detailed three methods where religious ignorance should be removed, and you only stated you disagree with one. Should I just assume you *do* want your religion shoved into government and medical practices?

And instead of tearing down my argument, you resort to name calling. hahahahaha

You really did not comprehend my extremely simple question.

yeah completely misread that one. first question is still valid tho. and plato is philosophy taught in a philosophical (usually college) course. Similarly, religion courses that teach different religious philosophies fall under that category. Contrast that to "MY RELIGION IS THE RIGHT ONE, OBEY IT NOW!" in the classroom.

 

[Nemo Securus]

Well forget all this nitpickiness, since you don't seem to want to grasp what I am getting at. I am essentialy arguing for both sides. All I am saying is that, in my opinion, creationism is not the main point of the Christian faith. Being kind and loving to other humans is. I believe Christians get side tracked when they focus on fighting the teaching of evolution. They get side tracked from the overall agenda, which would be peace. In my opinion.

But in the same argument, I am not going to begin to act as if those who do believe in creationism are dumb or ignorant. If it helps them sleep easy at night fine. Why can't atheist or whoever else wants to condemn them for it, just accept that people are going to believe how they wish. And why can't "Christians" accept the fact that not everyone is going to believe their way. Acceptance doesn't mean you have to believe what others do. Its just acknowledging that they have that right and there is nothing you can do about it. If you would take time to think long and hard about what Jesus taught, you would probably agree that yes if everyone on Earth followed his way of life perfectly, then it is very true that there would be no fighting. I am a reasonable person, and I realize that that is somerthing that will never be achieved in this world. But it is true that if and only IF everyone followed that way of life it would be a very peaceful planet. It IS hypothetical. I am in no way saying life will ever be this way. But if it were, what a peaceful life it would be.

So instead of looking for ways in which others are stupid and ways in which Christianity has a violent past. Instead of accusing me of not reading what you think I haven't read, maybe you should read what I have said. Think about it first, then comment. I have never said that true Christianity is a better or worse way than how I choose to live my personal life. But I do, however have an open mind enough to realize that hey, it works for some people. And I have an open mind to realize that if someone were to try to practice true Christianity, it wouldn't be a bad thing. There are lots of religions out there. I don't follow any of them. B'hai faith is a particularly interesting faith. They propose a great way to live your life too. I don't follow it but I am also not too ignorant to not accept the fact that, hey, they have come up with a great way of life. I am happy for them and I hope they have continued happiness as well. Im not going to go join their faith tomoorow though. Just the same way that I respect the way you believe, I may not agree with you but I respect the fact that you believe whatever makes you comfortable. But I think atheists are just as guilty of trying to pressure their views on the world as anyone else.

 

[Nemo Securus]

If I tell slaves to obey and never say I disagree with my father's laws commanding slavery, what would you imagine my position was about slavery and abolition?

Well seeing as how you said you have slaves, I would imagine you agree with slavery. However, I would have to know your stance AND your fathers stance on issues before I could form a strong assumption. You could agree with slavery but in a whole different way than your father did. There are lots of ways that could go.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Well forget all this nitpickiness, since you don't seem to want to grasp what I am getting at.

No, I understand exactly what you're getting at. But instead of stopping and correcting yourself (such as "oh you're right, living like they did in the bible is a bad thing"), you tried to backpedal. That's not nitpickiness on my part, that's you trying to cover over a mess and someone calling you on it.

But in the same argument, I am not going to begin to act as if those who do believe in creationism are dumb or ignorant.

Except... they ARE ignorant, by the very definition of the word.

Why can't atheist or whoever else wants to condemn them for it, just accept that people are going to believe how they wish. And why can't "Christians" accept the fact that not everyone is going to believe their way.

You are insinuating that both creationism and evolution are both equal beliefs. That's not the case. By the way, I can't help but realize you completely avoided my previous question: do you or do you not agree with the principles of evolution in their entirety?

If you would take time to think long and hard about what Jesus taught, you would probably agree that yes if everyone on Earth followed his way of life perfectly, then it is very true that there would be no fighting.

If you would take time to think long and hard about what Ghandi/Mother Theresa/a million other good people taught, you would probably agree that yes if everyone on Earth followed their way of life perfectly, then it is very true that there would be no fighting.

Oh look! I can stick tons of people into that sentence! Which yet again proves that hypotheticals are nice, but still hypothetical.

I have never said that true Christianity is a better or worse way than how I choose to live my personal life.

No. You claimed following the teachings of Jesus would be good. You then claimed it's not the only way to have a good life. Therefore, if you choose to ignore it, it is clear to me that the method you chose is *better* in one or several ways.

And I have an open mind to realize that if someone were to try to practice true Christianity, it wouldn't be a bad thing.

You mean, what you think Christianity should be. right.

 

[Setarcos]

If I tell slaves to obey and never say I disagree with my father's laws commanding slavery, what would you imagine my position was about slavery and abolition?

Well seeing as how you said you have slaves...

Source?

 

[Setarcos]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SmarterThanHick again.

blast

 

[Father Time]

If evolution is not a religion- then why do evolutionists always post in the religion and ethics forum, rather than the science forum?

Because the only people denying reality on the subject are doing it for religious reasons, and are thus found doing so... guess where?

It could as easily be said that the only people ignoring the first law of thermodynamics are denying IT for religious reasons.. and thus, posting their beliefs... guess where?

How does evolution contradict the conservation of energy?

 

[JW Frogen]

Of course there is no reason evolution can not be part of God’s divine will.

If, you believe God will play with the dice never knowing if he will roll seven or crap out.

This applies to quantum physics as well.

I, for one, having evolved from sea slime and being in two places at once, believe in a God who has no idea what he is doing.

There is plenty of empircal evidence for it.

 

[Father Time]

Of course there is no reason evolution can not be part of God’s divine will.

If, you believe God will play with the dice not never knowing if he will roll seven or crap out.

This applies to quantum physics as well.

I for one believe in a God who has no idea what he is doing.

There is plenty of empircal evidence for it.

I think if there's a God, that he let evolution do the work for him. I see little reason why God would make so many species and let over 90% of them become extinct.

 

[JW Frogen]

. I see little reason why God would make so many species and let over 90% of them become extinct.

If you want to make an omlette, you gotta break some eggs, species, life, hope.

God is the Iron Chef.

 

[Douger]

EZ
Because he hast to come back with a bigass book with around 14 names in it
so he can laugh hysterically as the other 17 billion or so get tossed into a lake of fire to be tormented for 203.45 trillion years. More or less.

 

[JW Frogen]

I am not saying I would wish it this way, it is simply the way I see it.

I would make a far better God than the God I live under.

Still, I don't know what SHE does.

Love stinks.

 

[JW Frogen]

EZ
Because he hast to come back with a bigass book with around 14 names in it
so he can laugh hysterically as the other 17 billion or so get tossed into a lake of fire to be tormented for 203.45 trillion years. More or less.

Johnny Cash made a lot of money out of a ring of fire, fire real estate is hot.