Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

This stupid thread again?

Jeez

We have nothing to fear, right? There's no such thing as socialism, right?

 

[dblack]

This stupid thread again?

Jeez

We have nothing to fear, right? There's no such thing as socialism, right?

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

1) Democrats give government more power.
2) Republicans show us why giving government more power is a bad idea.
3) Democrats ---- 'Uhhh...."

I will use the words of Polonius written by Mr. Shakespeare in Hamlet to describe your perfect summary of decay that is U.S. Politics and Government:

My liege and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night, night, and time is time —
Were nothing but to waste night, day, and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief. Your noble son is mad.
Mad call I it, for to define true madness,
What is't but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Yeah. You did. On purpose. Because you don't wanna talk about it.

WTF?
You don't know WTF you even talking about.

"Democracy should be reserved for social issues that require conformity. Most things don't, and in those cases, the majority shouldn't be allowed to force its will on everyone else".

You only want democracy....................SOMETIMES?

I'm not a Republican, and I don't give a single fuck about your two-party pissing match.

Sure........................

1) Democrats give government more power.

No, we don't.
Another lying republican talking point.
No one expanded government like republicans.

2) Republicans show us why giving government more power is a bad idea.

Yeah, bad idea for them..................and corporations.

January 2 2017
House Republicans on Monday night voted 119-74 to eviscerate Congress’ outside ethics watchdog and put it under the control of the very same lawmakers it’s meant to be keeping in check. Under a proposal by Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), the Office of Congressional Ethics, set up in 2008 to investigate allegations of misconduct against lawmakers, will be controlled by the House Ethics Committee. Republicans voted in favor of the change Monday night without so much as a debate beforehand.

“Republicans claim they want to ‘drain the swamp,’ but the night before the new Congress gets sworn in, the House GOP has eliminated the only independent ethics oversight of their actions,”

3) Democrats ---- 'Uhhh...."

Republicans...................WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
"Let my grifters, grift".

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You only want democracy....................SOMETIMES?

You want soldiers to exercise democracy?

Let's look at that scenario:

Lt.: "We need to take this hill. It will be dangerous, but I think we can do it with minimal loss of your lives. All in favor?"

squads: (silence....cough....feet shuffling)

Lt. "No one?"

squads: (fart)

Here's another scenario:

"For the greater good, all in favor of you, Smokin' OP, killing yourself to preserve this planet, say aye."

"AYE"

One more:

All in favor of taking everything that Smokin' OP owns, including the clothes on his back, and redistributing it amongst ourselves, say aye."

"AYE"

Get the point yet?

 

[iceberg]

What an interesting blog article on American ideas about civil responsibility and the knee jerk reaction of Americans generally, and Conservatives specifically, to fear community welfare and immediately associate it with socialism or communism. It led to her asking “What are you so afraid of?”, and she received 5 specific groups of fears:

1. I’m scared of having to pay for other people’s laziness
2. I’m scared because I don’t trust my government or other people generally
3. I’m scared because socialism leads to authoritarianism
4. I’m scared because socialists and communists kill a lot of people
5. I’m not scared, socialism always fails

She has some good responses to these fears that I can’t do just to for a short attention span. Read the link if you want. I think these fears keep America from being a great and caring nation.

Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?
I went a little bit viral on TikTok recently for voicing the unthinkable: I said that I like paying taxes. As you might imagine, the Americans and Conservatives in my comment section were shocked and appalled. The words communist and socialist were thrown around like insults, images of gulags and famine were invoked to prove some kind of vague and poorly-articulated point about freedom.

In contrast, the (predominantly western/northern) Europeans seemed to find my explanation pretty fair and even stopped to correct me on some of the finer points of Scottish, Scandinavian and German socialist democracy.

What shocked me, however, was not that so many Americans and Conservatives seemed to misunderstand fundamental aspects of civil life — like taxation — but that so many seemed so vehemently opposed to any suggestion that we should all contribute to the collective welfare of our countrymen.

Curiosity piqued, yesterday I made the mistake of asking Americans and Conservatives: “What is it about communism/socialism that scares you?” Here’s what they said.

knowing something is a failed system isn't fear.

stop polishing the turd. we can smell it already.

 

[dblack]

WTF?
You don't know WTF you even talking about.

"Democracy should be reserved for social issues that require conformity. Most things don't, and in those cases, the majority shouldn't be allowed to force its will on everyone else".

You only want democracy....................SOMETIMES?

Exactly. Only when it's truly necessary that everyone follow the same policy.

Take your stop sign example. If there are no rules around right away at intersection, it becomes a chaotic, dangerous clusterfuck. In that case, it's necessary for us to all agree a common set of rules and follow them. If we're going to share the public roads (the commons), it's necessary.

On the other hand, Democrats are zealously lobbying for the government to take over health insurance. They want to force everyone into the same insurance company, run by government. That's simply not necessary (and gives government far too much power). We can let people go their own way, decide for themselves, how they want to finance their healthcare. It shouldn't be up to majority rule. It's that way with most social problems. We don't need, and shouldn't want, government forcing conformity in all cases. Freedom is a good thing.

No one expanded government like republicans.

Yep. They're just as bad. Does that make you feel better?

You really can't break out of your two-party fixation, can you?

Yeah, bad idea for them..................and corporations.

Don't feign stupidity (hoping it's a feint, at least).

Or, well. Ok. I'll spell it out for you. Again.

Let's say Democrats get their druthers and pass single payer health insurance - such that we're all forced to pay for insurance, run by the state. Then, Republicans take Congress, and the White House, and go to town cutting coverage of things they don't approve of (abortion, birth-control, mental health, anything related to sexuality, etc, etc ....). And you're stuck with "insurance" that doesn't pay for health care services that you consider vital.

If insurance were still a free market, and your insurance company tried to make these changes, you could tell them get fucked, maybe even sue them if they tried to change the policy mid-stream. But if government is running the show, you have no such option. You're stuck with whatever the Republicans hand you. You can wait another for years and cast a vote for someone who will (maybe) turn things back your way. But that's mighty weak tea and doesn't address your immediate health care needs.

January 2 2017
House Republicans on Monday night voted 119-74 to eviscerate Congress’ outside ethics watchdog and put it under the control of the very same lawmakers it’s meant to be keeping in check. Under a proposal by Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), the Office of Congressional Ethics, set up in 2008 to investigate allegations of misconduct against lawmakers, will be controlled by the House Ethics Committee. Republicans voted in favor of the change Monday night without so much as a debate beforehand.

“Republicans claim they want to ‘drain the swamp,’ but the night before the new Congress gets sworn in, the House GOP has eliminated the only independent ethics oversight of their actions,”


Republicans...................WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
"Let my grifters, grift".

Jeez... you partisans are really a one-trick pony. What would your excuse be if the Republicans weren't there?

 

[citygator]

knowing something is a failed system isn't fear.

stop polishing the turd. we can smell it already.

You don’t know what socialism is. You’re an ignorant parrot.

 

[Smokin' OP]

You want soldiers to exercise democracy?

Let's look at that scenario:

Lt.: "We need to take this hill. It will be dangerous, but I think we can do it with minimal loss of your lives. All in favor?"

squads: (silence....cough....feet shuffling)

Lt. "No one?"

squads: (fart)

Here's another scenario:

"For the greater good, all in favor of you, Smokin' OP, killing yourself to preserve this planet, say aye."

"AYE"

One more:

All in favor of taking everything that Smokin' OP owns, including the clothes on his back, and redistributing it amongst ourselves, say aye."

"AYE"

Get the point yet?

Just when you think a Trumptard can't get any dumber......................they surprise you.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Exactly. Only when it's truly necessary that everyone follow the same policy.

WTF do you think why laws and policies are created for?

Take your stop sign example. If there are no rules around right away at intersection, it becomes a chaotic, dangerous clusterfuck.

See above.

In that case, it's necessary for us to all agree a common set of rules and follow them. If we're going to share the public roads (the commons), it's necessary.

On the other hand, Democrats are zealously lobbying for the government to take over health insurance. They want to force everyone into the same insurance company, run by government. That's simply not necessary (and gives government far too much power).

So, instead, you want the very same power to remain, as is, for-profit insurance companies?
Where the bottom line is profit, not healthcare.
There isn't ONE country in the world with universal healthcare, that are even thinking of changing to the US model.
Why do you think that is?

We can let people go their own way, decide for themselves, how they want to finance their healthcare. It shouldn't be up to majority rule.

That's working so well...................................NOT.

It's that way with most social problems. We don't need, and shouldn't want, government forcing conformity in all cases. Freedom is a good thing.

Healthcare isn't a social issue.

Yep. They're just as bad. Does that make you feel better?

You really can't break out of your two-party fixation, can you?

WTF?
What are the predominant political parties in the US?

Don't feign stupidity (hoping it's a feint, at least).

Or, well. Ok. I'll spell it out for you. Again.

Let's say Democrats get their druthers and pass single payer health insurance - such that we're all forced to pay for insurance, run by the state. Then, Republicans take Congress, and the White House, and go to town cutting coverage of things they don't approve of (abortion, birth-control, mental health, anything related to sexuality, etc, etc ....). And you're stuck with "insurance" that doesn't pay for health care services that you consider vital.

Not single-payer.................Universal.
If people wanted extra services, they would purchase extra insurance for some services.

If insurance were still a free market, and your insurance company tried to make these changes, you could tell them get fucked, maybe even sue them if they tried to change the policy mid-stream.

Yeah, good luck with that.
Companies change insurance all the time, you can't sue them for that, they have a right to change the insurance coverage of their employees.

You want to sue insurance companies because they dropped you?
You want to force insurance companies to cover your issue?
Should have read the fine print.

Then what happens when you do tell them to get fucked, change insurers and they don't cover pre-existing conditions?

Are you going to sue the hospital too?
Insurance companies aren't covering out-of-network doctors doing surgeries, exams, and medical procedures.
You get a co-pay for what you thought was an in-network procedure, then get an extra bill for an out-of-network doctor for $4000 or $5000, too paltry for a lawyer to take up.

But if government is running the show, you have no such option. You're stuck with whatever the Republicans hand you. You can wait another for years and cast a vote for someone who will (maybe) turn things back your way. But that's mighty weak tea and doesn't address your immediate health care needs.

Correct............................that's exactly what we have now.
Overpriced, poor quality, a massive-profit healthcare system that is number 1 in cost, number 12 in the world for a successful medical outcome.

Jeez... you partisans are really a one-trick pony. What would your excuse be if the Republicans weren't there?

Right, TRYING to portray yourself as nonpartisan, while regurgitating republican/FOX talking points?

 

[dblack]

So, instead, you want the very same power to remain, as is, for-profit insurance companies?

Insurance companies don't have the very same power. We can tell them to get fucked, whereas, if government is charge, and the Republicans take over, you're stuck with whatever they give you. And all you can do is threaten to not vote for them next time around. Good luck with that.

It sounds like you have a mental block regarding this fact. Like somehow it doesn't fit your worldview so, you just block it out and refuse to think about it. Weird. I guess as long as you don't mind Republicans making your healthcare decisions for you, it's all good.

Right, TRYING to potray yourself as nonpartisan, while regurgitating republican/FOX talking points?

LOL - if you knew how often I hear the same fucking line from Republicans INSISTING that I'm a Democratic because I don't sing their stupid song. You partisans are such pathetic creatures. Utterly lost without a herd to hide in.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Insurance companies don't have the very same power.

Yes, they do, it's called lobbying.

We can tell them to get fucked, whereas, if government is charge, and the Republicans take over, you're stuck with whatever they give you. And all you can do is threaten to not vote for them next time around. Good luck with that.

Good luck with that?
THAT'S what people are stuck with now, that's what republican's did.

It sounds like you have a mental block regarding this fact.

Sounds like you're the one with a mental block.

Like somehow it doesn't fit your worldview so, you just block it out and refuse to think about it.

Yeah, somehow your worldview is for-profit insurance is the way to go.

Weird. I guess as long as you don't mind Republicans making your healthcare decisions for you, it's all good.

Trump and republicans already did that.

Before he was sworn in, President Trump made a bold promise: The as-yet-unreleased Obamacare repeal and replacement plan would have “insurance for everybody.”

“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

Yeah, that happened.

LOL - if you knew how often I hear the same fucking line from Republicans INSISTING that I'm a Democratic because I don't sing their stupid song. You partisans are such pathetic creatures. Utterly lost without a herd to hide in.

As you regurgitate FOX/republican talking points.
You wouldn't have anything if it weren't for them.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A better question is why do demoquacks and left loons embrace it? In all of history it's never worked

 

[Smokin' OP]

A better question is why do demoquacks and left loons embrace it? In all of history it's never worked

Working just fine in Europe Scandinavia, Canada, and israel, has been for decades.

 

[dblack]

Yes, they do, it's called lobbying.

Get back to me when they have you arrested for not doing what they tell you. The power of government is radically different from the power of a private business, far more intrusive and backed by violence. I'm not sure why Democrats don't get this, or why they won't acknowledge it, but it's the key reason I can't take them seriously.

Trump and republicans already did that.

Before he was sworn in, President Trump made a bold promise: The as-yet-unreleased Obamacare repeal and replacement plan would have “insurance for everybody.”

“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

Yeah, that happened.

Yes. Trump and the Republicans are not to be trusted. Yet you want to give them more power over you. Think about that.

Look up "cognitive dissonance".

 

[Smokin' OP]

Get back to me when they have you arrested for not doing what they tell you. The power of government is radically different from the power of a private business, far more intrusive and backed by violence.

Sure they are, ever hear of ALEC?
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a nonprofit organization of conservative state legislators and private sector representatives who draft and share model legislation for distribution among state governments in the United States.

ALEC provides a forum for state legislators and private sector members to collaborate on model bills—draft legislation that members may customize and introduce for debate in their own state legislatures.
ALEC has produced model bills on a broad range of issues, such as reducing regulation and individual and corporate taxation, combating illegal immigration, loosening environmental regulations, tightening voter identification rules, weakening labor unions, and opposing gun control.
Some of these bills dominate legislative agendas in states such as Arizona, Wisconsin, Colorado, Michigan, New Hampshire, and Maine. Approximately 200 model bills become law each year.
ALEC also serves as a networking tool among certain state legislators, allowing them to research conservative policies implemented in other states.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon has vetoed a bill that included a drafting error copied-and-pasted from American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) model legislation, and criticized ALEC members for having "simply parroted ... the ALEC model act without alteration."

"While some may believe that such an error is 'close enough' for a model act, it cannot be allowed to become the law of this State," Nixon, a Democrat, wrote in his veto message. "Particularly in an area of the law that is the subject of ongoing litigation, a glaring defect such as this cannot be ignored."

Missouri Senate Bill 508, sponsored by ALEC member Sen. Mike Parsons, was modeled after the ALEC Navigator Background Check Act, and aimed to create new hurdles for health care “navigators” who enroll Missourians in healthcare plans under the Affordable Care Act. The bill was voted on by ALEC's corporate and politician members at ALEC's December 2013 meeting, and became official ALEC policy in January 2014.

I'm not sure why Democrats don't get this, or why they won't acknowledge it, but it's the key reason I can't take them seriously.

Not sure why republicans vote against their best interest.

Yes. Trump and the Republicans are not to be trusted. Yet you want to give them more power over you. Think about that.

You, evidently think corporations are going to look out for you.

Look up "cognitive dissonance".

Don't have to, you're a perfect example.

 

[dblack]

Sure they are, ever hear of ALEC?

LOL - yeah. This one again? More cognitive dissonance:

1) Government is corrupt and selling its "services" to the highest bidder therefore,
2) We should give government power! More services to sell! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Logic!

Not sure why republicans vote against their best interest.

Me neither. But you sure are fixated on your little partisan pissing match, aren't you? Can you think outside that box? I bet you can't. You seem pretty stuck there.

You, evidently think corporations are going to look out for you.

Nope. But you seemed convinced our government will, if we just stop worrying about "freedom" and give them all the power they yearn for.

Dr. Trump will see you now. Bend over!

 

[dblack]

”Democracy should be reserved for social issues that require conformity. Most things don't, and in those cases, the majority shouldn't be allowed to force its will on everyone else".

You only want democracy....................SOMETIMES?

Exactly. Only when it's necessary. I bet that breaks your brain, eh?

Sure........................

True story. Believe it or not, some of us haven't signed on to your two party death spiral. But don't worry, Trumpsters are just as confused as you. And I know how much it comforts you to be part of a group.

January 2 2017
House Republicans on Monday night voted 119-74 to eviscerate ...

Just think, when you get your wet dream, and government controls health care, Republicans can eviscerate that too! Go team!

“Republicans claim they want to ‘

Republicans are bad, mkay?

Republicans...................WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
"Let my grifters, grift".

Sad. It seems the best you got is "but Republicans!"

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What an interesting blog article on American ideas about civil responsibility and the knee jerk reaction of Americans generally, and Conservatives specifically, to fear community welfare and immediately associate it with socialism or communism. It led to her asking “What are you so afraid of?”, and she received 5 specific groups of fears:

1. I’m scared of having to pay for other people’s laziness
2. I’m scared because I don’t trust my government or other people generally
3. I’m scared because socialism leads to authoritarianism
4. I’m scared because socialists and communists kill a lot of people
5. I’m not scared, socialism always fails

She has some good responses to these fears that I can’t do just to for a short attention span. Read the link if you want. I think these fears keep America from being a great and caring nation.

Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?
I went a little bit viral on TikTok recently for voicing the unthinkable: I said that I like paying taxes. As you might imagine, the Americans and Conservatives in my comment section were shocked and appalled. The words communist and socialist were thrown around like insults, images of gulags and famine were invoked to prove some kind of vague and poorly-articulated point about freedom.

In contrast, the (predominantly western/northern) Europeans seemed to find my explanation pretty fair and even stopped to correct me on some of the finer points of Scottish, Scandinavian and German socialist democracy.

What shocked me, however, was not that so many Americans and Conservatives seemed to misunderstand fundamental aspects of civil life — like taxation — but that so many seemed so vehemently opposed to any suggestion that we should all contribute to the collective welfare of our countrymen.

Curiosity piqued, yesterday I made the mistake of asking Americans and Conservatives: “What is it about communism/socialism that scares you?” Here’s what they said.

Because dictators love using socialism to remain in power.

 

[Smokin' OP]

LOL - yeah. This one again? More cognitive dissonance:

Yes, YOURS.

1) Government is corrupt and selling its "services" to the highest bidder therefore,

Don't elect republicans.

2) We should give government power! More services to sell! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Logic!

Yes, who else would you give "power" to?
Corporations?
The military?
The church?

Me neither. But you sure are fixated on your little partisan pissing match, aren't you?

As you regurgitate republican BS?

Can you think outside that box? I bet you can't. You seem pretty stuck there.

You can't.
Where would you like this "power" to go to?

Nope. But you seemed convinced our government will, if we just stop worrying about "freedom" and give them all the power they yearn for.

Sure, let's just have a free for all with absolutely no rules or laws.

Dr. Trump will see you now. Bend over!

More like roll up your sleeve.

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."