Why am I a liberal?

[Conservadude]

I used to be a liberal, then I started seeing how utterly destructive they were and recovered.

Me too, me too.

 

[Erand7899]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

Once you liberal/socialists quit attempting to separate people from their money, there will be room for discussion of other issues.

 

[regent]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

Once you liberal/socialists quit attempting to separate people from their money, there will be room for discussion of other issues.

Yeah maybe you're right, look at Reagan, little or no separating, he borrowed the money, look at Bush, no separating, he borrowed the money, Look at Obama he's borrowing the money to cover Reagan and Bush's debts and Bush's wars. Wonder what America would be like if we had skipped Reagan and Bush?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

A

I see the site is filled with deep thinkers, I don't know how to respond, no really, WTF???

Just why do you think YOU are entitled to the fruits of MY labor?

Even you can't take it with you, leaving money to them that ain't earned it hurts America, I know as parents we would do it anyway, that's why we need laws, to make America and Americans strong not weak assed Royals.

We don't even need parents! It takes a village, right? We have villages, we have roads we have bridges. Parents are do jejune, so colonial

 

[gallantwarrior]

Even you can't take it with you, leaving money to them that ain't earned it hurts America, I know as parents we would do it anyway, that's why we need laws, to make America and Americans strong not weak assed Royals.

And yet you are advocating that whatever wealth a person may have accumulated be passed on to government. A government that certainly did not earn that wealth. Again, you have failed to explain the benefits of robbing someone to support a bloated and unwieldy government run by corrupted individuals whose only interest is enriching themselves.

In a democracy the government is what you make it, sorry to hear that your opinion of Americans is so low.

That being said, the money I’m talking about has already been spent, we got a 15 trillion dollar debt, can’t expect people who got nothing from the tax cuts but low wages to pay the bill. How we fund stuff going forward, maybe we will do better if the people paying to send people to Washington know that they are not going to be allowed to steal from the retirement to pay their credit card bills.

Maybe you should propose a voluntary program for citizens to contribute what they think is appropriately their portion of the debt incurred by government. So much better than coerced robbery. I am quite certain that all those Hollyweird types, sports heroes, and government representatives who have made millions off the "little guy" will be more than willing to make their contribution. Hey, here's an even better idea: all these folks running for some public office who are collecting millions to fill their campaign "war chests"? Why don't we just force them to divert those millions to help pay the national debt. I mean, really, they are the very same people who have run up that debt, so maybe their contribution should be more significant?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

Once you liberal/socialists quit attempting to separate people from their money, there will be room for discussion of other issues.

Yeah maybe you're right, look at Reagan, little or no separating, he borrowed the money, look at Bush, no separating, he borrowed the money, Look at Obama he's borrowing the money to cover Reagan and Bush's debts and Bush's wars. Wonder what America would be like if we had skipped Reagan and Bush?

Without Reagan, eastern Europe would still be slaves to the progressive hometeam, the USSR

 

[mamooth]

A rejection of emotion in favor of reason is the hallmark of the liberal. As I said in my intro, I started out as a conservative. All children do. It's the infant's philosophy. And as most children tend to do, I grew out of conservatism. Being in the military, being employed, those factors almost always create liberals.

Liberalism is just common sense. We don't have hysterical emotional attachments to any position. If it works, then we do it. (To a certain extent. We also understand the dangers of pure utilitarianism, and thus understand that practicality has to be tempered with a little idealism.)

Now, compare that to conservatism. Supply-side economics has been a dismal failure for decades ... and they demand more! There's a whole list of politically correct party planks that good conservatives are required to believe, upon penality of being purged from TheParty. Abortion, global warming, immigration, gay marriage, taxation ... a conservative _must_ believe them all. Because TheParty so orders.

In contrast, I can and do disagree with the Democrats on several major points ... and no one cares. No screaming that I'm a DINO, no purges. That's because the Democrats aren't a political cult like the Republicans are.

 

[George Costanza]

Well at least we know where the OP is coming from.

As a citizen I say "Get your filthy paws out of my wallet!"

Translation: "I've got mine - SCREW YOU!"

 

[Papageorgio]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Don't worry someday you will grow up. Until then we will continue to feel sorry for you and your family, I hope you become grown up and successful soon.

 

[gallantwarrior]

A rejection of emotion in favor of reason is the hallmark of the liberal. As I said in my intro, I started out as a conservative. All children do. It's the infant's philosophy. And as most children tend to do, I grew out of conservatism. Being in the military, being employed, those factors almost always create liberals.

Liberalism is just common sense. We don't have hysterical emotional attachments to any position. If it works, then we do it. (To a certain extent. We also understand the dangers of pure utilitarianism, and thus understand that practicality has to be tempered with a little idealism.)

Now, compare that to conservatism. Supply-side economics has been a dismal failure for decades ... and they demand more! There's a whole list of politically correct party planks that good conservatives are required to believe, upon penality of being purged from TheParty. Abortion, global warming, immigration, gay marriage, taxation ... a conservative _must_ believe them all. Because TheParty so orders.

In contrast, I can and do disagree with the Democrats on several major points ... and no one cares. No screaming that I'm a DINO, no purges. That's because the Democrats aren't a political cult like the Republicans are.

If I were the type to get fucked-up high, I would certainly want to know what you are on, 'cause that's some bass-ackwards, fucked-up shit you just wrote.

 

[George Costanza]

A

Just why do you think YOU are entitled to the fruits of MY labor?

Even you can't take it with you, leaving money to them that ain't earned it hurts America, I know as parents we would do it anyway, that's why we need laws, to make America and Americans strong not weak assed Royals.

We don't even need parents! It takes a village, right? We have villages, we have roads we have bridges. Parents are do jejune, so colonial

Hey Frank, that avatar of yours there - is that:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs]Psyco - Lighten up Francis - YouTube[/ame]

 

[gallantwarrior]

Well at least we know where the OP is coming from.

As a citizen I say "Get your filthy paws out of my wallet!"

Translation: "I've got mine - SCREW YOU!"

That's right. I've got mine. You want some, go get your own. Oh, yeah, that might require you get off you plantation-bound ass and actually work to get it...

 

[Darkwind]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Let Me give you My reasons for being a Conservative.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

I am a parent. I cherish the freedoms that I enjoyed when growing up, and the values of hard work, saving and investing for My future and the future of My children. I believe that government steals much more than it will ever give, and that the founding fathers understood the danger of government more than any single person alive today.

As a parent, I will do anything to restrict and keep the government shackled by the Constitution, so that My children can and will enjoy the fruits of their labor, and the chasing of their dreams and passions without government dampening either.

I am a Citizen. I also served My country for 9 years. I did not swear an oath to a political party, a President, or a Congress. I swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States, and as a Citizen, I will continue to fight for the nobility of that document as well as the righteous power that it instills in every citizen.

As a citizen, I will work, debate, promote and advocate for the power of the private sector, both personal and business, to conduct their affairs and lives in any manner they see fit as long as those affairs do not infringe upon the rights of others.

Finally, as a citizen, I take to heart the profound words of Patrick Henry when he stated,

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests – Patrick Henry "

 

[Shelzin]

Public financing for public elections

That could actually be a liberal stance.

Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income

That's not a liberal stance.

Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That certainly isn't a liberal stance.

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

News flash... You can call yourself a liberal. And many of the conservatives here might call you one too. But you're not.
Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[J3ffr3y]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

Let me stop you right there.

You are a liberal because if you can think of a reason compelling enough to you, that is all the justification you need to begin "writing rules" that would dictate what people other than yourself can and can't do or what they must or must not do. You are a liberal because you fail to understand the true nature of freedom and individual liberty. Control is your vice. You believe that the masses must be controlled by someone or something, perhaps for "their own good", and you think that either you or someone smarter than you can and should be able to compel the common people to conform to a set of rules or behavior that you believe will result in a more harmonious society that is all but free of conflict and strife.

The primary obstacle to someone like you is someone like me. I believe in my own individual freedom and liberty and i do not recognize any legitimate authority over me other than that which i have consented to. What you have identified as "core principles" are nothing more than your own un-remarkable self realizations followed by fear of seeing those same thoughts reflected in others. I suppose your own feelings regarding the lengths you would go to for the benefit of your children caused you to see the same desires in others as a threat. So naturally- like most liberals- rather than embrace the challenge of living freely among other free people, you are crying out for a referee or all encompassing parent to assuage your cowardice as it regards the consequence of competing.

That is why you are a liberal.


Jeffrey

 

[regent]

Once you liberal/socialists quit attempting to separate people from their money, there will be room for discussion of other issues.

Yeah maybe you're right, look at Reagan, little or no separating, he borrowed the money, look at Bush, no separating, he borrowed the money, Look at Obama he's borrowing the money to cover Reagan and Bush's debts and Bush's wars. Wonder what America would be like if we had skipped Reagan and Bush?

Without Reagan, eastern Europe would still be slaves to the progressive hometeam, the USSR

Might want to begin checking out the histories of the Soviet collapse. Some do not even mention Reagan and as time goes by the few that might mention Reagan in the index may completly drop Reagan as a factor. Gorbie and Breshnev, however get a lot of mention.

 

[Shelzin]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

Let me stop you right there.

You are a liberal because if you can think of a reason compelling enough to you, that is all the justification you need to begin "writing rules" that would dictate what people other than yourself can and can't do or what they must or must not do. You are a liberal because you fail to understand the true nature of freedom and individual liberty. Control is your vice. You believe that the masses must be controlled by someone or something, perhaps for "their own good", and you think that either you or someone smarter than you can and should be able to compel the common people to conform to a set of rules or behavior that you believe will result in a more harmonious society that is all but free of conflict and strife.

The primary obstacle to someone like you is someone like me. I believe in my own individual freedom and liberty and i do not recognize any legitimate authority over me other than that which i have consented to. What you have identified as "core principles" are nothing more than your own un-remarkable self realizations followed by fear of seeing those same thoughts reflected in others. I suppose your own feelings regarding the lengths you would go to for the benefit of your children caused you to see the same desires in others as a threat. So naturally- like most liberals- rather than embrace the challenge of living freely among other free people, you are crying out for a referee or all encompassing parent to assuage your cowardice as it regards the consequence of competing.

That is why you are a liberal.


Jeffrey

Now this guy is a liberal. But obviously he sees it as a negative, so the other guy MUST be. No... Dude... Jeffrey... you are a liberal.

Republicans aren't liberal. Democrats aren't liberal. But you are... Unfortunately the republican party has convinced you that you are republican. Which I find sad.

 

[J3ffr3y]

What I find sad is that you think I am a republican. Not now,never have been. I'm a registered libertarian atheist conservative. A "don't tread on me" type of conservative.

A swing and a miss...ohhh so sorry.

Now how about you try making an actual point hmmm?


Jeffrey

 

[Shelzin]

What I find sad is that you think I am a republican. Not now,never have been. I'm a registered libertarian atheist conservative. A "don't tread on me" type of conservative.

A swing and a miss...ohhh so sorry.

Now how about you try making an actual point hmmm?


Jeffrey

My badd. You are right I made a assumption that I shouldn't have. I just ... Found it odd that you would look down on a liberal without knowing you are one, unless you were drinking the republican cool-aid.

If you are a libertarian, you are a liberal. So... Why the hate on them?

 

[P@triot]

What I find sad is that you think I am a republican. Not now,never have been. I'm a registered libertarian atheist conservative. A "don't tread on me" type of conservative.

A swing and a miss...ohhh so sorry.

Now how about you try making an actual point hmmm?


Jeffrey

My badd. You are right I made a assumption that I shouldn't have. I just ... Found it odd that you would look down on a liberal without knowing you are one, unless you were drinking the republican cool-aid.

If you are a libertarian, you are a liberal. So... Why the hate on them?

Where in the hell did you come up with something that insane? A libertarian is as far to the right as you can get before you get to anarchist (no government at all). A liberal is as far to the left as you can get (goverment control over everything and everyone).

A liberal believes that the Constitution is open to unlimited "interpretation". The libertarian believes in strictly adhering to the Constitution as it is written.