Why am I a liberal?

[SniperFire]

In the modern era, Democrat Presidents are either One Termers or Impeached.

 

[regent]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

 

[GoneBezerk]

You're full of shit.

The threat to society isn't old rich people passing on their wealth to their children and grandchildren, the threat is people like you that think you have a right to THEIR money.

They earned that money somehow and sometime, be it last year or 50 years ago. You DIDN'T earn it and don't have a right to it.

The REAL threat is people like you taxing rich people that invest so that they eventually run out of money or just give up investing their money because of the cost and pain of dealing with thieves like you. Rich people can just move away and keep their money hidden off shore when idiots like you drive them to that point with taxes to pay for your "goodies."

So harming the economic progress in this country by taxing "rich" people, you might prevent the next Bill Gates from getting that start up capital to create his company which could solve cancer. Oh, but you dragged everyone down to your level by stealing those rich guys' money to make sure your kids get $100,000 per quarter spent on them in some inefficient education and waste of taxpayer money. That lazy ass teacher thanks you for her $50,000 year job for 9 months a year.....

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

 

[francoHFW]

Greedy CEOS, greedy Pubs, really silly brainwashed dupes. And just wait till O-care starts, and you find out how duped you've been...D'OH!

Oblivious Greedy Millionnaires 2012!!

 

[g5000]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Thomas Jefferson did not speak of "the need for inheritance taxes". I would ask you provide evidence for that.


Jefferson was opposed to the practices of primogeniture and entail, which are different matters altogether.


To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. - Thomas Jefferson.


If you are looking for one of the Founding Fathers to support your progressive agenda, I would suggest Thomas Paine. He was all about the welfare state. See his pamphlet entitled Agrarian Justice.


.

 

[GreatDay]

Mr. Great Day. ... Why are you a liberal?

Well, I can only assume that, after all that has transpired under the guidance of our current liberal administration to splinter the country, that you haven't adequately informed yourself or just flat refuse to see what's going on around you. I must assume this otherwise I would think you to be an idiot. (Trying to give you the benefit of a doubt.)

So you can only assume?

I take it that as a Republican you never learned to read? That would explain you being a con and all.

 

[GreatDay]

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

I can't find that quote anywhere but I did find this attributed to Jefferson:
The Greatest Thomas Jefferson quotes

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have nDidn’t anybody on this forum go to school? Or know how to read?


“If the overgrown wealth of an individual be deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.” T. Jefferson 1816




The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of ... - Thomas Jefferson - Google Books



ot exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it".

Not having a source kinda' blows up the OP's entire thread.

Didn’t anybody on this forum go to school? Or know how to read?


“If the overgrown wealth of an individual be deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.” T. Jefferson 1816




The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of ... - Thomas Jefferson - Google Books



How like a con to take it out of context you would think you would have more respect for Jefferson.....

 

[Charles_Main]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Why am I a Moderate? Because i don't know a better way to Describe someone like myself that is Liberal on Most Social Issues, but conservative when it comes to fiscal Policy, Government power, and Defense.



Self proclaimed liberals do not hold a Monopoly on Compassion, I have kids to. we all want what is best for their Future. We just disagree on how to get there.

 

[Sinjorri]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

the founders were wealthy men that went poor to build this country, money was the means and sacrifice for what we have today, the libs just seem to hate everything about this country and to msot of them this country cant do enough for them until its bankrupt and ruined. Sorry thats how i feel and thats what ive seen from them.

 

[GreatDay]

As I read American history I have the feeling that while money was of great importance to the founders, the future of America was almost of equal importance. The leaders of early America built for the future and had some pretty great visions of that future; today as I read some of these posts, it all seems to be about money, with few other visions.

the founders were wealthy men that went poor to build this country, money was the means and sacrifice for what we have today, the libs just seem to hate everything about this country and to msot of them this country cant do enough for them until its bankrupt and ruined. Sorry thats how i feel and thats what ive seen from them.

and what is paid for in blood, is fairly paid for, I have every right to use my vote to tell those that got the benefit from all that tax cutting that they need to pay the bill, cause it didn't get down to the regular folks and telling them they can pay it with their retirement while the fatcats pass billions on to their kin is pure crap.


That's just how I feel about it.

 

[GreatDay]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Not bad.

One of mine is free airtime for all qualified candidates.

They get so much time and then have to use it by standing in front of the camera and telling you their platform.

No buying of airtime for anyone

I think in general we give too much power to money, it got all caught up in this crazy notion that money=freedom.


I agree about the airtime, i would like the only time they get to be on TV is to answer questions.

 

[g5000]

Didn’t anybody on this forum go to school? Or know how to read?


“If the overgrown wealth of an individual be deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.” T. Jefferson 1816




The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of ... - Thomas Jefferson - Google Books



How like a con to take it out of context you would think you would have more respect for Jefferson.....

How ironic. You don't even realize he is talking about eliminating the practice of primogeniture and entail, which I clearly pointed out to you above. And YOU took that quote out of context! Double irony.

He is saying eliminating primogeniture is the way to go and plainly states that extra-taxation is the WRONG solution to concentrated wealth.

.

 

[GreatDay]

The OP is basically Marxism 101

I suppose in some ways Marx might have been the ultimate equal opportunity person, I have never read him so I wouldn’t know, but from what I do know I differ from him in that I believe one should reap the rewards of hard work, just not the hard work of great-great-great-great-granddaddy.

 

[GoneBezerk]

People are liberals because they are losers, lazy, stupid, and/or immoral people.

They failed in school so feel they need "daddy" (the Guberment) step in and save them from the competition for work, life, etc.

They might've done well in school but have bad morals, they want "daddy" to let them do anything they like: do drugs, kill their unborn, etc.

Liberals like to claim to be compassionate but they are typically the ones that don't want to pay their taxes and don't give to charity like conservatives.....it is all for show. "Better to seem than to be."

Liberals that get into political power like to use their position to reap the benefits, see the Kennedys, Obamination, Reid, Pelosi, etc. Reid shows up in DC as a middle class lawyer and today is a multi-millionaire.....only a criminal could pull that off on a "Guberment" salary.

 

[g5000]

Didn’t anybody on this forum go to school? Or know how to read?

Since you obviously need some schooling yourself, here is a link to Social Studies for Kids.

That should be about your speed.

Jefferson took on the wealthy landowners with his programs to end entail and primogeniture. Entail required a property owner to, when he died, give his land to a family member. Primogeniture was the practice of leaving all land to the eldest son. Jefferson succeeded in ending both practices. His purpose was to get more people to vote. In order to vote, you had to own land. When large estates were broken up by Jefferson's laws, more people could afford land, more people bought land, and more people could vote.

So your ideas that Jefferson felt a "need for inheritance taxes" is complete bunk.

As I said, you would have been better off going with Paine's Agrarian Justice.

.

 

[Full-Auto]

As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?

After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.

I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.

It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.

The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.

I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:

Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500

That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?

Noble ideas.............

Or just another whack job that has zero economic sense...... YOU DECIDE.........

 

[GreatDay]

Didn’t anybody on this forum go to school? Or know how to read?


“If the overgrown wealth of an individual be deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.” T. Jefferson 1816




The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of ... - Thomas Jefferson - Google Books



How like a con to take it out of context you would think you would have more respect for Jefferson.....

How ironic. You don't even realize he is talking about eliminating the practice of primogeniture and entail, which I clearly pointed out to you above. And YOU took that quote out of context! Double irony.

He is saying eliminating primogeniture is the way to go and plainly states that extra-taxation is the WRONG solution to concentrated wealth.

.

How did I take it out of context? Jefferson is saying if the rich get too rich the best thing to do is take it all and spread it around evenly, I don't think he ever imagined we would go to war and such without paying for it and end up with the kind of debt we got now, so I say take it and pay the debt, it's just the right thing to do.

 

[GoneBezerk]

How does an inheritance tax promote working hard to build up your family wealth?

How does it promote "saving" money which is a key economic indicator.

Inheritance tax is anti-economic progress, it takes money out of the private sector and gives it to the inefficient public sector.

Most times younger people will spend their inheritance money on other goods which stimulates the economy. Older people with money tend to hoard, save their money for a rainy day.

It is better for someone to grow their business, spend money in their 20s-50s, then save for their family until they die so that the cycle repeats itself with their children that get the inheritance.

To claim it is unfair that someone was born into a rich family and that they should lose all or some of that money is insane, anti-capitalism.....socialist. This country is against everything you fucking socialists stand for, even if you got one into the White House for 4 years because he is black.

 

[regent]

At one time the elite upper class realized that by spliting their money among the heirs it could destroy their elitism and status, so they had the practice of leaving all their wealth to the oldest son. It was called primogeniture. It's sole purpose was to keep status and wealth with the family name. Jefferson, a true liberal, was against that practice, believing all should share.

 

[g5000]

How did I take it out of context? Jefferson is saying if the rich get too rich the best thing to do is take it all and spread it around evenly

And you interpreted that to mean "a need for inheritance taxes"? BWA-HA-HA!


What he meant was that instead of all wealth being passed from the father to the oldest son, as was the legal practice in Europe and part of America at that time, that this law of primogeniture should be eliminated and that wealth should be equally inherited by all the children. And this is exactly what he accomplished.

He also wanted to eliminate the law of entail which required your wealth to be inherited by a relative. Eliminating this law allowed for someone to give their wealth to someone outside the family.

In this way, great wealth was broken down over time into smaller and smaller pieces.

50 years later, we find Alexis de Tocqueville writing this:

No sooner was the law of primogeniture abolished than fortunes began to diminish and all the families of the country were simultaneously reduced to a state in which labor became necessary to existence; several of them have since entirely disappeared, and all of them learned to look forward to the time when it would be necessary for everyone to provide for his own wants. Wealthy individuals are still to be met with, but they no longer constitute a compact and hereditary body, nor have they been able to adopt a line of conduct in which they could persevere and which they could infuse into all ranks of society. The prejudice that stigmatized labor was, in the first place, abandoned by common consent, the number of needy men was increased, and the needy were allowed to gain a subsistence by labor without blushing for their toil. Thus one of the most immediate consequences of the equal division of estates has been to create a class of free laborers.

Tocqueville: Book I Chapter 18

, I don't think he ever imagined we would go to war and such without paying for it and end up with the kind of debt we got now, so I say take it and pay the debt, it's just the right thing to do.

Now you are imagining what Jefferson would or would not believe!

.