Why abiogenesis is not viable

M.D. Rawlings

Classical Liberal
May 26, 2011
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Heavenly Places
Abiogenesis: The Holy Grail of Atheism
By Michael David Rawlings
March 6, 2011


Years of experience have shown me that most atheists are more obtuse than a pile of bricks. They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion: namely, abiogenesis and evolution. While science's historical presupposition is not a metaphysical naturalism (or an ontological naturalism), most of today's practicing scientists insist that the composition of empirical phenomena must be inferred without any consideration given to the possibility of intelligent causation. The limits of scientific inquiry are thereby reconfigured as if they constituted the limits of reality itself, the more expansive potentialities of human consciousness be damned. In other words, if something cannot be readily quantified by science, it doesn't exist, regardless of the conclusions that any rational evaluation of the empirical data might recommend. Hence, should one reject what is nothing more than the guesswork of an arbitrarily imposed apriority, one is said to reject science itself, as if the fanatics of scientism owned the means of science.

The Rest

Warning: this article attempts to address the philosophical/theological implications of what is currently known from the findings of research in the field of prebiotic chemistry; hence, it is posted in the religious forum rather than the science forum. On the other hand, with regard to the scientific aspects of the article, the research was vetted by experts in the fields of biochemistry and microbiology, by friends, both ID scientists and evolutionists. Naturally, the latter would not necessarily agree with my thesis regarding the deleterious effects of Darwinian naturalism on scientific methodology and what I hold to be the only viable explanation for the origins of life and the process of actualization, but the presentation of the science itself is objective, accurate and sound. In other words, because this work unabashedly posits, albeit, based on the findings of scientific research, that life could not and did not arise in the primordial world via the processes of natural causality, it is not strictly a scientific work, but one that evaluates the potentialities of ultimate origins of which we are all cognizant whether we acknowledge them to be pertinently valid or not.

Scientifically, as things stand now, we cannot say with any certitude how life began. We can only consider what scientific research has shown about the monomeric, chemical precursors of life, the extent to which they were available and the apparent conditions under which they travailed. I submit that the evidence strongly indicates the necessity of an intelligent designer; that is to say, I go beyond the Pasteurian law of biogenesis: all live is from live.
 
Those first 2 sentences gave me all I needed to know about the brains of the author.
 
So everyone that believes in abiogenesis is an atheist?
And every atheist believes in abiogenesis?
That is what we call a WHOPPER.
About as whacked out as claiming everyone that believes in evolution is anti God.
When you hear folks writing books on what OTHER FOLKS BELIEVE it is Exhibit A that they have very little faith in what they believe.
 
So everyone that believes in abiogenesis is an atheist?
And every atheist believes in abiogenesis?
That is what we call a WHOPPER.
About as whacked out as claiming everyone that believes in evolution is anti God.

Calm down, Gadawg, I didn't say that. Of course, a theist or an agnostic can embrace abiogenesis and many do. A few of the folks who advised me on the more complex aspects of the science were theists who believe that God may have set the Cosmos up from the beginning to produce life on its own. These guys were evolutionists, too. And one of the ID scientists, a microbiologist, was an agnostic. Hello!

You're saying that I made a whopper when I didn't. But in any event, among other things, this article challenges the science of materialism, the default position of the atheist.

I suppose it's possible that an atheist could reject abiogenesis, but how exactly does he account for the existence of life by doing so? Ultimately, abiogenesis is the notion that life arose from non-life. What other recourse does the atheist have but some kind of chemical evolutionary process, whether you call it abiogenesis or not. A rose by any other name. . . .

It doesn't appear that you're making any sense here, but perhaps you have something in mind that I've never considered before. If so, please share.

When you hear folks writing books on what OTHER FOLKS BELIEVE it is Exhibit A that they have very little faith in what they believe.

Uh . . . actually, quite the opposite is true. The genesis of this article goes to a number of opinions that began popping up on the Internet, apparently, as a result of recent advances in biotechnology and discoveries of biotic material in space debris. I was seeing claims all over the Internet, beginning with Yahoo Answers, that abiogenesis had effectively been proven or near proven. A rash of insanity. That was about a year ago. A few of the writers claimed to be scientists who insisted that we were very close. What?

Look. I've been following the findings of abiogenic research and the advances in biotechnology for years with the clear understanding that in fact all evidence pointed away from natural causation of life as we currently understand it; nevertheless, I had always taken the position that determining whether or not abiogenesis did occur was a matter of time and information. I hedged my bets.

The question came to me. If ignorance and confusion were so widespread, what's to say that I didn't have a number of things wrong as well? I spent the next six months studying the matter in depth. I read volumes of direct research, peer reviews and scientific articles.

So what did I learn? Lots. I had a few of the details wrong, minor stuff really, and in some respects my understanding was a bit screwed. But what was the biggest thing learned of all?

I didn't need to hedged my bets. The prospects of abiogenesis are so remote as to be nonexistent. Hence, I wrote an article rejecting it with the confidence of a lion.

I prefaced the article with a response to yet another outrageous claim on Yahoo Answers, which became the vehicle through which the thesis could be readily expressed.

Do not be daunted by the article's length. It's about a 30 minute read. But consider this: it covers the pertinent concerns and developments in abiogenic research from Miller-Urey (1951) to the present. That's a big topic in a space that is less than the length of a single blog page. Not bad.
 
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Those first 2 sentences gave me all I needed to know about the brains of the author.

They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion...
And you proved him right.

He spends his first few sentences bashing atheists then expects atheists to read this with an open mind and respect his opinion?

:cuckoo:
 
Those first 2 sentences gave me all I needed to know about the brains of the author.

They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion...
And you proved him right.

He spends his first few sentences bashing atheists then expects atheists to read this with an open mind and respect his opinion?

:cuckoo:

No he expects you to be as obtuse as a pile of bricks. And you met his expectations.
 
And you proved him right.

He spends his first few sentences bashing atheists then expects atheists to read this with an open mind and respect his opinion?

:cuckoo:

No he expects you to be as obtuse as a pile of bricks. And you met his expectations.

Yes because I'm absolutely certain if I presented an article that bashed christians for a paragraph then after that tried to make a point you'd be totally open-minded and welcome the author's opinions.

:cuckoo::eusa_liar::cuckoo::eusa_liar:
 
He spends his first few sentences bashing atheists then expects atheists to read this with an open mind and respect his opinion?

:cuckoo:

No he expects you to be as obtuse as a pile of bricks. And you met his expectations.

Yes because I'm absolutely certain if I presented an article that bashed christians for a paragraph then after that tried to make a point you'd be totally open-minded and welcome the author's opinions.

:cuckoo::eusa_liar::cuckoo::eusa_liar:

I would read the article then make an argument based on the facts (or lack thereof) as they are presented.

Bashing Christians is nothing new, I've seen it done my enitre life and I do not take it personally. Jesus knew it would happen. He said in Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."
 
Those first 2 sentences gave me all I needed to know about the brains of the author.

They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion...
And you proved him right.

He spends his first few sentences bashing atheists then expects atheists to read this with an open mind and respect his opinion?

:cuckoo:
And, oddly, he's still right.
 
No he expects you to be as obtuse as a pile of bricks. And you met his expectations.

Yes because I'm absolutely certain if I presented an article that bashed christians for a paragraph then after that tried to make a point you'd be totally open-minded and welcome the author's opinions.

:cuckoo::eusa_liar::cuckoo::eusa_liar:

I would read the article then make an argument based on the facts (or lack thereof) as they are presented.

Bashing Christians is nothing new, I've seen it done my enitre life and I do not take it personally. Jesus knew it would happen. He said in Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."

Yep I'm absolutely certain you would and you aren't lying right now...........

I'm certain of that...............................

Ab.............so.........lute...........ly....................cer................tain.................

You guys should stick to playing the holier than thou card, that's subjective so that can never be proven wrong or right. You don't want to play the higher IQ card, trust me.

Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists
 
Abiogenesis: The Holy Grail of Atheism
By Michael David Rawlings
March 6, 2011


Years of experience have shown me that most atheists are more obtuse than a pile of bricks. They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion: namely, abiogenesis and evolution. While science's historical presupposition is not a metaphysical naturalism (or an ontological naturalism), most of today's practicing scientists insist that the composition of empirical phenomena must be inferred without any consideration given to the possibility of intelligent causation. The limits of scientific inquiry are thereby reconfigured as if they constituted the limits of reality itself, the more expansive potentialities of human consciousness be damned. In other words, if something cannot be readily quantified by science, it doesn't exist, regardless of the conclusions that any rational evaluation of the empirical data might recommend. Hence, should one reject what is nothing more than the guesswork of an arbitrarily imposed apriority, one is said to reject science itself, as if the fanatics of scientism owned the means of science.

The Rest

Warning: this article attempts to address the philosophical/theological implications of what is currently known from the findings of research in the field of prebiotic chemistry; hence, it is posted in the religious forum rather than the science forum. On the other hand, with regard to the scientific aspects of the article, the research was vetted by experts in the fields of biochemistry and microbiology, by friends, both ID scientists and evolutionists. Naturally, the latter would not necessarily agree with my thesis regarding the deleterious effects of Darwinian naturalism on scientific methodology and what I hold to be the only viable explanation for the origins of life and the process of actualization, but the presentation of the science itself is objective, accurate and sound. In other words, because this work unabashedly posits, albeit, based on the findings of scientific research, that life could not and did not arise in the primordial world via the processes of natural causality, it is not strictly a scientific work, but one that evaluates the potentialities of ultimate origins of which we are all cognizant whether we acknowledge them to be pertinently valid or not.

Scientifically, as things stand now, we cannot say with any certitude how life began. We can only consider what scientific research has shown about the monomeric, chemical precursors of life, the extent to which they were available and the apparent conditions under which they travailed. I submit that the evidence strongly indicates the necessity of an intelligent designer; that is to say, I go beyond the Pasteurian law of biogenesis: all live is from live.


Yes, there are alot of atheists who are out just to try to disprove God and/or mock Christians and seem to have their fingers plugged in their ears, saying, "nah nah nah, nah nah, nah,nah, I can't hear you", lol. However, I have seen a few people here on USMB though, that aren't like that at all. There are a few who just stay out of it.

M.D., if you'd like and don't know about it yet, I'd like to share with you a YouTube Channel called Thunderfoot. It seems to me, this guy is like the "king" of atheists (who mock God, etc) on YouTube. He has a huge and faithful following, it blows my mind away.
He's pretty educated in science, and I believe may hold a position somehow in the field.

Thunderfoot (TF) has dedicated alot of his videos to mocking God and Christians and Creationism, etc. He has a whole series of videos called "Why Do People Laugh At Creationists". (WDPLAC)

Here is one of TF's (WDPLAC) videos in relation to abiogenesis:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtbcOEtpoE]YouTube - ‪Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 25)‬‏[/ame]
"In this episode Jonathan Wells of the creationist organization The Discovery Institute is taken to task over his bizarre assertions that the inability of a burst cell to spontaneously reassemble means that abiogenesis must be impossible.

I thought I'd share this with you, because you may be interesed as you have the knowledge and know how of the science to perhaps refute him. If you're not interested, please just disregard.

It personally blows me away that he's got 137K + suscribers and over 8million views and some of his videos have 10's of 1000's of views. There seems to be such a huge atheist movement in the last decade alone; atheists who are out to mock God or try to disprove ID, instead of just saying, "I don't believe in God" and letting it be and live their lives.

.
 
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Abiogenesis: The Holy Grail of Atheism
By Michael David Rawlings
March 6, 2011


Years of experience have shown me that most atheists are more obtuse than a pile of bricks. They are either breezily unaware of their metaphysical biases or are unwilling to objectively separate themselves from them long enough to engage in a reasonably calm and courteous discussion about the tenets of their religion: namely, abiogenesis and evolution. While science's historical presupposition is not a metaphysical naturalism (or an ontological naturalism), most of today's practicing scientists insist that the composition of empirical phenomena must be inferred without any consideration given to the possibility of intelligent causation. The limits of scientific inquiry are thereby reconfigured as if they constituted the limits of reality itself, the more expansive potentialities of human consciousness be damned. In other words, if something cannot be readily quantified by science, it doesn't exist, regardless of the conclusions that any rational evaluation of the empirical data might recommend. Hence, should one reject what is nothing more than the guesswork of an arbitrarily imposed apriority, one is said to reject science itself, as if the fanatics of scientism owned the means of science.

The Rest

Warning: this article attempts to address the philosophical/theological implications of what is currently known from the findings of research in the field of prebiotic chemistry; hence, it is posted in the religious forum rather than the science forum. On the other hand, with regard to the scientific aspects of the article, the research was vetted by experts in the fields of biochemistry and microbiology, by friends, both ID scientists and evolutionists. Naturally, the latter would not necessarily agree with my thesis regarding the deleterious effects of Darwinian naturalism on scientific methodology and what I hold to be the only viable explanation for the origins of life and the process of actualization, but the presentation of the science itself is objective, accurate and sound. In other words, because this work unabashedly posits, albeit, based on the findings of scientific research, that life could not and did not arise in the primordial world via the processes of natural causality, it is not strictly a scientific work, but one that evaluates the potentialities of ultimate origins of which we are all cognizant whether we acknowledge them to be pertinently valid or not.

Scientifically, as things stand now, we cannot say with any certitude how life began. We can only consider what scientific research has shown about the monomeric, chemical precursors of life, the extent to which they were available and the apparent conditions under which they travailed. I submit that the evidence strongly indicates the necessity of an intelligent designer; that is to say, I go beyond the Pasteurian law of biogenesis: all live is from live.


Yes, there are alot of atheists who are out just to try to disprove God and/or mock Christians and seem to have their fingers plugged in their ears, saying, "nah nah nah, nah nah, nah,nah, I can't hear you", lol. However, I have seen a few people here on USMB though, that aren't like that at all. There are a few who just stay out of it.

M.D., if you'd like and don't know about it yet, I'd like to share with you a YouTube Channel called Thunderfoot. It seems to me, this guy is like the "king" of atheists (who mock God, etc) on YouTube. He has a huge and faithful following, it blows my mind away.
He's pretty educated in science, and I believe may hold a position somehow in the field.

Thunderfoot (TF) has dedicated alot of his videos to mocking God and Christians and Creationism, etc. He has a whole series of videos called "Why Do People Laugh At Creationists". (WDPLAC)

Here is one of TF's (WDPLAC) videos in relation to abiogenesis:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtbcOEtpoE]YouTube - ‪Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 25)‬‏[/ame]
"In this episode Jonathan Wells of the creationist organization The Discovery Institute is taken to task over his bizarre assertions that the inability of a burst cell to spontaneously reassemble means that abiogenesis must be impossible.

I thought I'd share this with you, because you may be interesed as you have the knowledge and know how of the science to perhaps refute him. If you're not interested, please just disregard.

It personally blows me away that he's got 137K + suscribers and over 8million views and some of his videos have 10's of 1000's of views. There seems to be such a huge atheist movement in the last decade alone; atheists who are out to mock God or try to disprove ID, instead of just saying, "I don't believe in God" and letting it be and live their lives.

.

The moment people let everyone live their lives by not forcing ID into public classrooms, we'll quiet down about the subject, however I'm doubting that'll happen.
 
Yes because I'm absolutely certain if I presented an article that bashed christians for a paragraph then after that tried to make a point you'd be totally open-minded and welcome the author's opinions.

:cuckoo::eusa_liar::cuckoo::eusa_liar:

I would read the article then make an argument based on the facts (or lack thereof) as they are presented.

Bashing Christians is nothing new, I've seen it done my enitre life and I do not take it personally. Jesus knew it would happen. He said in Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."

Yep I'm absolutely certain you would and you aren't lying right now...........

I'm certain of that...............................

Ab.............so.........lute...........ly....................cer................tain.................

You guys should stick to playing the holier than thou card, that's subjective so that can never be proven wrong or right. You don't want to play the higher IQ card, trust me.

Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists

I have no reason to lie.

I'd say the person that is willing to read opposing points of view without letting personal feelings deter them would be smarter than a person (like yourself) who would rather remain ignorant.
 
I would read the article then make an argument based on the facts (or lack thereof) as they are presented.

Bashing Christians is nothing new, I've seen it done my enitre life and I do not take it personally. Jesus knew it would happen. He said in Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."

Yep I'm absolutely certain you would and you aren't lying right now...........

I'm certain of that...............................

Ab.............so.........lute...........ly....................cer................tain.................

You guys should stick to playing the holier than thou card, that's subjective so that can never be proven wrong or right. You don't want to play the higher IQ card, trust me.

Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists

I have no reason to lie.

I'd say the person that is willing to read opposing points of view without letting personal feelings deter them would be smarter than a person (like yourself) who would rather remain ignorant.

I love hearing opposing points of view, however when I have to read a paragraph of childish insults, generalities and false assumptions to later hope to read something intelligent it's not worth my time.
 
No he expects you to be as obtuse as a pile of bricks. And you met his expectations.

Yes because I'm absolutely certain if I presented an article that bashed christians for a paragraph then after that tried to make a point you'd be totally open-minded and welcome the author's opinions.

:cuckoo::eusa_liar::cuckoo::eusa_liar:

I would read the article then make an argument based on the facts (or lack thereof) as they are presented.

Bashing Christians is nothing new, I've seen it done my enitre life and I do not take it personally. Jesus knew it would happen. He said in Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."

And I see Christians bash others all the time also.
Who did Jesus bash?
In fact Jesus defended the very folks that modern day so called "Christians" bash all the time.
 
Yep I'm absolutely certain you would and you aren't lying right now...........

I'm certain of that...............................

Ab.............so.........lute...........ly....................cer................tain.................

You guys should stick to playing the holier than thou card, that's subjective so that can never be proven wrong or right. You don't want to play the higher IQ card, trust me.

Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists

I have no reason to lie.

I'd say the person that is willing to read opposing points of view without letting personal feelings deter them would be smarter than a person (like yourself) who would rather remain ignorant.

I love hearing opposing points of view, however when I have to read a paragraph of childish insults, generalities and false assumptions to later hope to read something intelligent it's not worth my time.

If childsh insults bother you then maybe you need to grow up and grow a pair.

I'd argue that they were not generalities nor false assumptions but rather opinions based on experience arguing with atheist.
 
Abiogenesis?

My theory is that humans and live on earth was created by an alien HS student for a science project which got a D.

that is just as valid and proveable as any other theory.

In truth, I do not know how we came about but have no reason to believe that a single all powerful being was the cause.
and I really do not concern myself with it. What is just is and we need to make the most of what is. Not live for what might or might not ever be.
 
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