Who was first Republican President; first Democrat president?

[Brutus]

Cecile: No, the thread is intended to show everyone how clever you are, "Oooh, look, he figured out something new and unique that no one else saw", and fails miserably. It teaches no one anything except that you like to conflate opinions with facts.

Brutus: so if there is a mistake in the reasoning why be so afriad to point out what it is??

Cecile: The FACT is that neither the Democrat nor the Republican Party existed in Jefferson's time.

Brutus: "Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican."- Susan Dunn, "Jefferson's Second Revolution."

Cecile: There was a completely separate and different party, the Democratic-Republican Party, which no longer exists and to which both the Democrats and the Republicans made reference when they chose their names for political calculations of their own. Trying to claim Thomas Jefferson for one or the other modern party is stupid and childish.

Brutus: and now even you know better. Who would have thought even a dominatrix could learn??

Cecile: If you wish to try to make an argument that one or the other party is more similar in views and attitudes to Thomas Jefferson than the other, then do that.

Brutus: Try??? Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government, and nothing else. Federalists then and Democrats now are 100% opposed. Again, welcome to your first lesson in American History!!

Cecile: But stop wasting everyone's time with this nutty and remarkably UNclever attempt to associate him with something he never had contact with. You might as well try to claim a modern-day political affiliation for Napoleon or Jesus Christ or Cro-Magnon Man.

Brutus: I assume the liberal knows better now??

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecile: No, the thread is intended to show everyone how clever you are, "Oooh, look, he figured out something new and unique that no one else saw", and fails miserably. It teaches no one anything except that you like to conflate opinions with facts.

Brutus: so if there is a mistake in the reasoning why be so afriad to point out what it is??

Cecile: The FACT is that neither the Democrat nor the Republican Party existed in Jefferson's time.

Brutus: "Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican."- Susan Dunn, "Jefferson's Second Revolution."

Cecile: There was a completely separate and different party, the Democratic-Republican Party, which no longer exists and to which both the Democrats and the Republicans made reference when they chose their names for political calculations of their own. Trying to claim Thomas Jefferson for one or the other modern party is stupid and childish.

Brutus: and now even you know better. Who would have thought even a dominatrix could learn??

Cecile: If you wish to try to make an argument that one or the other party is more similar in views and attitudes to Thomas Jefferson than the other, then do that.

Brutus: Try??? Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government, and nothing else. Federalists then and Democrats now are 100% opposed. Again, welcome to your first lesson in American History!!

Cecile: But stop wasting everyone's time with this nutty and remarkably UNclever attempt to associate him with something he never had contact with. You might as well try to claim a modern-day political affiliation for Napoleon or Jesus Christ or Cro-Magnon Man.

Brutus: I assume the liberal knows better now??

This is your last warning, fucktard. Ignore it, and you can talk to yourself (which I get the impression you're pretty much already doing).

1) You are massively abusing basic message board courtesy with your fucked-up posting style and insistence on cropping people's posts into your own daydreamed conversations, rather than using the quote function. We are NOT supporting actors in your little life movie, and your continued, deliberate bad manners are the Internet equivalent of walking into someone's house and pissing on their carpet. Knock it the fuck off.

2) Your opinions are NOT fact, and it doesn't matter to anyone whether or not you can find some unknown author to quote - or misquote, as might be the case. Who knows? No one's ever heard of her - to allegedly support you. The political parties themselves have the dates of their foundings, and even the details, on their websites. If either of them COULD claim Jefferson in that fashion, they would.

3) It is incredibly ill-mannered and childish to drag other people's personal lives into a discussion. And this is completely aside from how utterly asinine you sound, throwing out "dominatrix" as though I'm supposed to be shocked and insulted by it. My personal and sexual proclivities have nothing to do with this, nor do they indicate anything about my education and intelligence levels. This can be seen by the fact that YOU are presumably vanilla in your tastes, and you're a frigging moron.

4) I am one of the most conservative members of this board, as anyone here can and will tell you, and as anyone with at least a teaspoonful of brains would know . . . which obviously leaves you out. My belief that you're a mouthbreathing. self-important dolt has nothing to do with my political affiliations, and I'm not telling you that you're an offensive, driveling waste of space because I'm from "the other side" and you're scoring big political points. We're technically on the same political side, and I STILL think the best part of you dribbled down your father's leg.

Now grow the fuck up and clean up your act, or get the fuck off my screen, cluebird.

 

[Sheldon]

Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794, to stand against the Federalist Party, and for freedom and liberty from government both of which he thought were greatly threatened at the time.

So, when Jefferson became president in 1800 he was the first Republican President. He stood for what modern Republicans stand for.

The first Democrat president, i.e., a president who stood against freedom and liberty, was the monarchically inspired Washington( nominally a Federalist) or the
communistically inspired FDR( nominally a Democrat).

Do you agree?

Monarchical inspired Washington? You mean the guy who voluntarily walked away from a third-term, despite winning 100% of the electoral votes both times? The guy who refused to be given any title other than "Mr. President"? The guy who rejected Hamilton's suggestion that the President be elected for life? That Washington?


You're so gone. How embarrassing for you.

 

[Brutus]

Cecile: No, the thread is intended to show everyone how clever you are, "Oooh, look, he figured out something new and unique that no one else saw", and fails miserably. It teaches no one anything except that you like to conflate opinions with facts.

Brutus: so if there is a mistake in the reasoning why be so afriad to point out what it is??

Cecile: The FACT is that neither the Democrat nor the Republican Party existed in Jefferson's time.

Brutus: "Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican."- Susan Dunn, "Jefferson's Second Revolution."

Cecile: There was a completely separate and different party, the Democratic-Republican Party, which no longer exists and to which both the Democrats and the Republicans made reference when they chose their names for political calculations of their own. Trying to claim Thomas Jefferson for one or the other modern party is stupid and childish.

Brutus: and now even you know better. Who would have thought even a dominatrix could learn??

Cecile: If you wish to try to make an argument that one or the other party is more similar in views and attitudes to Thomas Jefferson than the other, then do that.

Brutus: Try??? Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government, and nothing else. Federalists then and Democrats now are 100% opposed. Again, welcome to your first lesson in American History!!

Cecile: But stop wasting everyone's time with this nutty and remarkably UNclever attempt to associate him with something he never had contact with. You might as well try to claim a modern-day political affiliation for Napoleon or Jesus Christ or Cro-Magnon Man.

Brutus: I assume the liberal knows better now??

This is your last warning, fucktard. Ignore it, and you can talk to yourself (which I get the impression you're pretty much already doing).

1) You are massively abusing basic message board courtesy with your fucked-up posting style and insistence on cropping people's posts into your own daydreamed conversations, rather than using the quote function. We are NOT supporting actors in your little life movie, and your continued, deliberate bad manners are the Internet equivalent of walking into someone's house and pissing on their carpet. Knock it the fuck off.

2) Your opinions are NOT fact, and it doesn't matter to anyone whether or not you can find some unknown author to quote - or misquote, as might be the case. Who knows? No one's ever heard of her - to allegedly support you. The political parties themselves have the dates of their foundings, and even the details, on their websites. If either of them COULD claim Jefferson in that fashion, they would.

3) It is incredibly ill-mannered and childish to drag other people's personal lives into a discussion. And this is completely aside from how utterly asinine you sound, throwing out "dominatrix" as though I'm supposed to be shocked and insulted by it. My personal and sexual proclivities have nothing to do with this, nor do they indicate anything about my education and intelligence levels. This can be seen by the fact that YOU are presumably vanilla in your tastes, and you're a frigging moron.

4) I am one of the most conservative members of this board, as anyone here can and will tell you, and as anyone with at least a teaspoonful of brains would know . . . which obviously leaves you out. My belief that you're a mouthbreathing. self-important dolt has nothing to do with my political affiliations, and I'm not telling you that you're an offensive, driveling waste of space because I'm from "the other side" and you're scoring big political points. We're technically on the same political side, and I STILL think the best part of you dribbled down your father's leg.

Now grow the fuck up and clean up your act, or get the fuck off my screen, cluebird.

Brutus: personal attack apparently because you lack IQ for substance?

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Cecile: No, the thread is intended to show everyone how clever you are, "Oooh, look, he figured out something new and unique that no one else saw", and fails miserably. It teaches no one anything except that you like to conflate opinions with facts.

Brutus: so if there is a mistake in the reasoning why be so afriad to point out what it is??

Cecile: The FACT is that neither the Democrat nor the Republican Party existed in Jefferson's time.

Brutus: "Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican."- Susan Dunn, "Jefferson's Second Revolution."

Cecile: There was a completely separate and different party, the Democratic-Republican Party, which no longer exists and to which both the Democrats and the Republicans made reference when they chose their names for political calculations of their own. Trying to claim Thomas Jefferson for one or the other modern party is stupid and childish.

Brutus: and now even you know better. Who would have thought even a dominatrix could learn??

Cecile: If you wish to try to make an argument that one or the other party is more similar in views and attitudes to Thomas Jefferson than the other, then do that.

Brutus: Try??? Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government, and nothing else. Federalists then and Democrats now are 100% opposed. Again, welcome to your first lesson in American History!!

Cecile: But stop wasting everyone's time with this nutty and remarkably UNclever attempt to associate him with something he never had contact with. You might as well try to claim a modern-day political affiliation for Napoleon or Jesus Christ or Cro-Magnon Man.

Brutus: I assume the liberal knows better now??

This is your last warning, fucktard. Ignore it, and you can talk to yourself (which I get the impression you're pretty much already doing).

1) You are massively abusing basic message board courtesy with your fucked-up posting style and insistence on cropping people's posts into your own daydreamed conversations, rather than using the quote function. We are NOT supporting actors in your little life movie, and your continued, deliberate bad manners are the Internet equivalent of walking into someone's house and pissing on their carpet. Knock it the fuck off.

2) Your opinions are NOT fact, and it doesn't matter to anyone whether or not you can find some unknown author to quote - or misquote, as might be the case. Who knows? No one's ever heard of her - to allegedly support you. The political parties themselves have the dates of their foundings, and even the details, on their websites. If either of them COULD claim Jefferson in that fashion, they would.

3) It is incredibly ill-mannered and childish to drag other people's personal lives into a discussion. And this is completely aside from how utterly asinine you sound, throwing out "dominatrix" as though I'm supposed to be shocked and insulted by it. My personal and sexual proclivities have nothing to do with this, nor do they indicate anything about my education and intelligence levels. This can be seen by the fact that YOU are presumably vanilla in your tastes, and you're a frigging moron.

4) I am one of the most conservative members of this board, as anyone here can and will tell you, and as anyone with at least a teaspoonful of brains would know . . . which obviously leaves you out. My belief that you're a mouthbreathing. self-important dolt has nothing to do with my political affiliations, and I'm not telling you that you're an offensive, driveling waste of space because I'm from "the other side" and you're scoring big political points. We're technically on the same political side, and I STILL think the best part of you dribbled down your father's leg.

Now grow the fuck up and clean up your act, or get the fuck off my screen, cluebird.

Brutus: personal attack apparently because you lack IQ for substance?

Brutus: I don't know how to use quotes, and ignore the points of others, while pulling random stuff out of my ass.

James: cool....

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is your last warning, fucktard. Ignore it, and you can talk to yourself (which I get the impression you're pretty much already doing).

1) You are massively abusing basic message board courtesy with your fucked-up posting style and insistence on cropping people's posts into your own daydreamed conversations, rather than using the quote function. We are NOT supporting actors in your little life movie, and your continued, deliberate bad manners are the Internet equivalent of walking into someone's house and pissing on their carpet. Knock it the fuck off.

2) Your opinions are NOT fact, and it doesn't matter to anyone whether or not you can find some unknown author to quote - or misquote, as might be the case. Who knows? No one's ever heard of her - to allegedly support you. The political parties themselves have the dates of their foundings, and even the details, on their websites. If either of them COULD claim Jefferson in that fashion, they would.

3) It is incredibly ill-mannered and childish to drag other people's personal lives into a discussion. And this is completely aside from how utterly asinine you sound, throwing out "dominatrix" as though I'm supposed to be shocked and insulted by it. My personal and sexual proclivities have nothing to do with this, nor do they indicate anything about my education and intelligence levels. This can be seen by the fact that YOU are presumably vanilla in your tastes, and you're a frigging moron.

4) I am one of the most conservative members of this board, as anyone here can and will tell you, and as anyone with at least a teaspoonful of brains would know . . . which obviously leaves you out. My belief that you're a mouthbreathing. self-important dolt has nothing to do with my political affiliations, and I'm not telling you that you're an offensive, driveling waste of space because I'm from "the other side" and you're scoring big political points. We're technically on the same political side, and I STILL think the best part of you dribbled down your father's leg.

Now grow the fuck up and clean up your act, or get the fuck off my screen, cluebird.

Brutus: personal attack apparently because you lack IQ for substance?

Brutus: I don't know how to use quotes, and ignore the points of others, while pulling random stuff out of my ass.

James: cool....

You forgot . . .

Brutus: I assume everyone who thinks I'm a giant, flaming idiot is a liberal, because I'm too much of a giant, flaming idiot to realize that my own ideological colleagues dislike me, or to realize that my personality is more repugnant than any political philosophy I could ever hold.

Cecilie: Well, FINALLY, you said something that wasn't a waste of kinetic energy.

 

[Brutus]

Brutus/Celcelia: I assume everyone who thinks I'm a giant, flaming idiot is a liberal, because I'm too much of a giant, flaming idiot to realize that my own ideological colleagues dislike me, or to realize that my personality is more repugnant than any political philosophy I could ever hold.

Cecilie: Well, FINALLY, you said something that wasn't a waste of kinetic energy.

Brutus: personal attack, lies, and fraudulently attributing things to Brutus that he did not say, and all because the goof ball dominatrix lacks the character to lose a debate very badly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Brutus/Celcelia: I assume everyone who thinks I'm a giant, flaming idiot is a liberal, because I'm too much of a giant, flaming idiot to realize that my own ideological colleagues dislike me, or to realize that my personality is more repugnant than any political philosophy I could ever hold.

Cecilie: Well, FINALLY, you said something that wasn't a waste of kinetic energy.

Brutus: personal attack, lies, and fraudulently attributing things to Brutus that he did not say, and all because the goof ball dominatrix lacks the character to lose a debate very badly.

Happy swirling, ass clown. FLUSH!

 

[Brutus]

Sheldon: Monarchical inspired Washington? You mean the guy who voluntarily walked away from a third-term, despite winning 100% of the electoral votes both times? The guy who refused to be given any title other than "Mr. President"? The guy who rejected Hamilton's suggestion that the President be elected for life? That Washington?

Brutus: No, the Washington that Jefferson hated and feared; the Washington who caused Jefferson to form the Republican Party in 1794 to re establish the meaning of the Revolution. Your version of Washington is not even High School. Why not read all about Jefferson's Second American Revolution?

 

[kwc57]

Please see my response to Cecilie for your first lesson in American History. It is my honor to help a liberal.

Hey look everybody, someone invented a new improved asshole!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please see my response to Cecilie for your first lesson in American History. It is my honor to help a liberal.

Hey look everybody, someone invented a new improved asshole!

I must have missed the part where it was "improved". The "asshole" part, I'll grant you.

 

[Brutus]

As long as you now agree that Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to opposed the Federalists (Washington, Hamilton, Adams) who he was sure opposed freedom and liberty from government just as modern liberals do.

 

[konradv]

As long as you now agree that Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to opposed the Federalists (Washington, Hamilton, Adams) who he was sure opposed freedom and liberty from government just as modern liberals do.

I doubt many would agree with that. It's just about all revisionist history!!!

 

[Brutus]

As long as you now agree that Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1794 to opposed the Federalists (Washington, Hamilton, Adams) who he was sure opposed freedom and liberty from government just as modern liberals do.

I doubt many would agree with that. It's just about all revisionist history!!!

Brutus: so then please tell us exactly where the mistake is. Thanks. I'm sure though you don't know or you would have been all too happy to point it out without being asked.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon: Monarchical inspired Washington? You mean the guy who voluntarily walked away from a third-term, despite winning 100% of the electoral votes both times? The guy who refused to be given any title other than "Mr. President"? The guy who rejected Hamilton's suggestion that the President be elected for life? That Washington?

Brutus: No, the Washington that Jefferson hated and feared; the Washington who caused Jefferson to form the Republican Party in 1794 to re establish the meaning of the Revolution. Your version of Washington is not even High School. Why not read all about Jefferson's Second American Revolution?

Feared? So you think Thomas Jefferson was a pussy. Duh. Debate me right now about anything, bro. I will crush an earthworm like you with my fire-breathing fists and make your face melt and your children weep over your exploded corpse. Your version of American history is not even, I don't know, possibly from this specific terrestrial realm. "Brutus".

 

[Brutus]

Sheldon: Monarchical inspired Washington? You mean the guy who voluntarily walked away from a third-term, despite winning 100% of the electoral votes both times? The guy who refused to be given any title other than "Mr. President"? The guy who rejected Hamilton's suggestion that the President be elected for life? That Washington?

Brutus: No, the Washington that Jefferson hated and feared; the Washington who caused Jefferson to form the Republican Party in 1794 to re establish the meaning of the Revolution. Your version of Washington is not even High School. Why not read all about Jefferson's Second American Revolution?

Feared? So you think Thomas Jefferson was a pussy. Duh. Debate me right now about anything, bro. I will crush an earthworm like you with my fire-breathing fists and make your face melt and your children weep over your exploded corpse. Your version of American history is not even, I don't know, possibly from this specific terrestrial realm. "Brutus".

Brutus: what is it that you'd like to debate about exactly?

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon: Monarchical inspired Washington? You mean the guy who voluntarily walked away from a third-term, despite winning 100% of the electoral votes both times? The guy who refused to be given any title other than "Mr. President"? The guy who rejected Hamilton's suggestion that the President be elected for life? That Washington?

Brutus: No, the Washington that Jefferson hated and feared; the Washington who caused Jefferson to form the Republican Party in 1794 to re establish the meaning of the Revolution. Your version of Washington is not even High School. Why not read all about Jefferson's Second American Revolution?

Feared? So you think Thomas Jefferson was a pussy. Duh. Debate me right now about anything, bro. I will crush an earthworm like you with my fire-breathing fists and make your face melt and your children weep over your exploded corpse. Your version of American history is not even, I don't know, possibly from this specific terrestrial realm. "Brutus".

Brutus: what is it that you'd like to debate about exactly?

You said my version of Washington is not even high school. That's true. I learned that shit in middle school. So you challenging its veracity makes me wonder about your own level of knowledge on this subject, your other retarded posts here notwithstanding. Here's another fact: you've yet to define what "monarchically inspired" means, and in what ways this makes Washington unique in the context of the time period. An undefined premise is a shitty way to start the conversation. Dork.

 

[Brutus]

Feared? So you think Thomas Jefferson was a pussy. Duh. Debate me right now about anything, bro. I will crush an earthworm like you with my fire-breathing fists and make your face melt and your children weep over your exploded corpse. Your version of American history is not even, I don't know, possibly from this specific terrestrial realm. "Brutus".

Brutus: what is it that you'd like to debate about exactly?

Sheldon: You said my version of Washington is not even high school. That's true. I learned that shit in middle school.

Brutus: yes that's when you learned he chopped down the Cherry Tree!! Why not grow up?


Sheldon: So you challenging its veracity makes me wonder about your own level of knowledge on this subject,


Brutus: so why not pick the biggest substantive error you've found and point it out for the whole world to see? A little tough when you rely on Middle School history isn't it?


Sheldon: your other retarded posts here notwithstanding. Here's another fact: you've yet to define what "monarchically inspired" means,

Brutus: Jefferson started the Republican Party because the Republicans thought Washington and the Federalists were covert monarchists or "royalists" as they called them!

sheldon: and in what ways this makes Washington unique in the context of the time period.

Brutus: Washington and the Federalists were uniquely un American to the Republicans. In fact, when Jefferson defeated them they were never heard from again. Freedom or liberty from government became the American tradition. Jefferson called it the second American Revolution because it established that the first revolution had been about freedom from all government, not just the government of England. Welcome to your first post middle school lesson in American History!

Shelton: An undefined premise is a shitty way to start the conversation. Dork.

Brutus: no need to be embarrassed. You're a liberal!!

 

[Sheldon]

sheldon: and in what ways this makes Washington unique in the context of the time period.

Brutus: Washington and the Federalists were uniquely un American to the Republicans. In fact, when Jefferson defeated them they were never heard from again. Freedom or liberty from government became the American tradition. Jefferson called it the second American Revolution because it established that the first revolution had been about freedom from all government, not just the government of England. Welcome to your first post middle school lesson in American History!

Way to not even come close to addressing the question.


I'm not interested in your semantical games about Jefferson's party name. He was the father of anti-federalist thought, which is the roots of the states' rights platform that today's GOP preaches. Whether they practice it or not is another issue. But when people refer to Republicans today, they are referring to the party that was officially formed in the Civil War era. That's what you're getting mixed up.

So again, in what ways was Washington "monrachically inspired", and how does it make him unique in the context of the time period?

 

[midcan5]

Too funny. "We cannot predict the future, but the past is changing before our very eyes." Soviet radio reporting on the Politburo’s deliberations. Brutus is Russian or maybe the product of home schooling or.... Imagine the founding fathers viewing the present writing on their times, and wondering who in the heck is Jefferson or this Washington guy?

"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts." Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government." Thomas Jefferson

"... legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property... Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right." Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to James Madison 1785