Who Started World War II, the answer is clear USSR (commies ) - Koba with occupation of BPR, UPR, Ge

[harmonica]

hahahhahahaaha
you said hitler attacked because he found out the Russians were going to attack Germany
hahhahahahhahha

Seriously, are you in high school? Do your parents know you're using their computer?

I'll tell you what: Why don't you read Suvorov's book and then come back and discuss this issue, hey?

I agree with Litwin's suggestion that you should also read historian Mark Solonin's research on this issue. Here's a decent introduction to Suvorov's and Solonin's research:

bionic mosquito: Revisiting Suvorov

I recall that you're the one who said in the Hiroshima-Nagasaki thread that you'd never heard of the claim that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. You used your silly "hahahaha" line then, too. Have you heard of historian John Toland, Admiral James Richardson, Admiral Robert Theobald, Captain James Johns, Admiral Husband Kimmel, Captain Laurance Safford, Admiral Kemp Tolley, Lt. Cdr. James Stahlman, Governor Thomas Dewey, and President Herbert Hoover, to name a few of the scholars, senior military officers, and politicians who argued that FDR knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked and that he allowed it because he knew it would enable him to get the U.S. into the war?

The Roots of Infamy at Pearl Harbor – The Future of Freedom Foundation

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor? | Robert B. Stinnett

yours is the childish post
I will discuss civilly until an idiot starts to act like a kid/jerk = you

 

[Picaro]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

hahahahhahahahhah

Indeed.He means read a bunch of crap from fake hacks who love Howard Zinn and commie crap from 1950's issues of Pravda.

 

[Litwin]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

hahahahhahahahhah

Indeed.He means read a bunch of crap from fake hacks who love Howard Zinn and commie crap from 1950's issues of Pravda.

i´d recommend to all read Anne Applebaum book about stalinist occupation of eastern europe
Interview: Anne Applebaum Discusses 'The Crushing Of ...

https://www.rferl.org › interview-anne-applebaum-iron-curtain-eastern-eur...
Oct 22, 2012 - The book, titled "Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, 1944-56" ... So was the Soviet Union's initial occupation plan far from ideal?

Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe 1944-56 ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk › Iron-Curtain-Crushing-Eastern-1944-56
Buy Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe 1944-56 by Anne Applebaum ... From there a particularly harrowing account of Soviet occupation follows.

 

[mikegriffith1]

hahahhahahaaha
you said hitler attacked because he found out the Russians were going to attack Germany
hahhahahahhahha

Seriously, are you in high school? Do your parents know you're using their computer?

I'll tell you what: Why don't you read Suvorov's book and then come back and discuss this issue, hey?

I agree with Litwin's suggestion that you should also read historian Mark Solonin's research on this issue. Here's a decent introduction to Suvorov's and Solonin's research:

bionic mosquito: Revisiting Suvorov

I recall that you're the one who said in the Hiroshima-Nagasaki thread that you'd never heard of the claim that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. You used your silly "hahahaha" line then, too. Have you heard of historian John Toland, Admiral James Richardson, Admiral Robert Theobald, Captain James Johns, Admiral Husband Kimmel, Captain Laurance Safford, Admiral Kemp Tolley, Lt. Cdr. James Stahlman, Governor Thomas Dewey, and President Herbert Hoover, to name a few of the scholars, senior military officers, and politicians who argued that FDR knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked and that he allowed it because he knew it would enable him to get the U.S. into the war?

The Roots of Infamy at Pearl Harbor – The Future of Freedom Foundation

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor? | Robert B. Stinnett

yours is the childish post
I will discuss civilly until an idiot starts to act like a kid/jerk = you

So I take it you have nothing to say about the points I made and the references I provided?

Indeed.He means read a bunch of crap from fake hacks who love Howard Zinn and commie crap from 1950's issues of Pravda.

Which of those scholars is a "fake hack"?

Suvorov's book is the opposite of the stuff that Pravda has ever peddled. You'd know that if you broke down and read the book.

Did you bother to read Mark Solonin's research? I'm guessing no. Am I correct?

You guys do little but hurl insults and sarcasm at anyone who challenges the PC syrup you call "history."

 

[harmonica]

hahahhahahaaha
you said hitler attacked because he found out the Russians were going to attack Germany
hahhahahahhahha

Seriously, are you in high school? Do your parents know you're using their computer?

I'll tell you what: Why don't you read Suvorov's book and then come back and discuss this issue, hey?

I agree with Litwin's suggestion that you should also read historian Mark Solonin's research on this issue. Here's a decent introduction to Suvorov's and Solonin's research:

bionic mosquito: Revisiting Suvorov

I recall that you're the one who said in the Hiroshima-Nagasaki thread that you'd never heard of the claim that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. You used your silly "hahahaha" line then, too. Have you heard of historian John Toland, Admiral James Richardson, Admiral Robert Theobald, Captain James Johns, Admiral Husband Kimmel, Captain Laurance Safford, Admiral Kemp Tolley, Lt. Cdr. James Stahlman, Governor Thomas Dewey, and President Herbert Hoover, to name a few of the scholars, senior military officers, and politicians who argued that FDR knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked and that he allowed it because he knew it would enable him to get the U.S. into the war?

The Roots of Infamy at Pearl Harbor – The Future of Freedom Foundation

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor? | Robert B. Stinnett

yours is the childish post
I will discuss civilly until an idiot starts to act like a kid/jerk = you

So I take it you have nothing to say about the points I made and the references I provided?

Indeed.He means read a bunch of crap from fake hacks who love Howard Zinn and commie crap from 1950's issues of Pravda.

Which of those scholars is a "fake hack"?

Suvorov's book is the opposite of the stuff that Pravda has ever peddled. You'd know that if you broke down and read the book.

Did you bother to read Mark Solonin's research? I'm guessing no. Am I correct?

You guys do little but hurl insults and sarcasm at anyone who challenges the PC syrup you call "history."

yes I have something to say about your points and references:
hahahahahahahahahahahha
AND--I think I will go start a copy cat thread like you did with the Nam thread
hahahahahahahah

 

[SavannahMann]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

The Russians were not ready. The T-34 Tank was just coming online. The KV-1 was barely operational. The fighters that would become pivotal in the later years were barely in prototype stages. Stalin was doing everything to avoid the war. He wanted the Fascists, and Capitalists, to destroy each other so he would have the easy victory.

Stalin ignored 45 warnings in the ten days prior to the invasion. The war warnings Stalin ignored

Churchill even warned Stalin. Everyone was warning Stalin. Richard Sorge - Wikipedia

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease. They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

About 600 miles of attack from the Germans across a front of nearly two thousand miles? Come on.

 

[Litwin]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

The Russians were not ready. The T-34 Tank was just coming online. The KV-1 was barely operational. The fighters that would become pivotal in the later years were barely in prototype stages. Stalin was doing everything to avoid the war. He wanted the Fascists, and Capitalists, to destroy each other so he would have the easy victory.

Stalin ignored 45 warnings in the ten days prior to the invasion. The war warnings Stalin ignored

Churchill even warned Stalin. Everyone was warning Stalin. Richard Sorge - Wikipedia

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease. They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

About 600 miles of attack from the Germans across a front of nearly two thousand miles? Come on.

"Churchill even warned Stalin." in 1941 koba hated Churchill more than he hated Hitler , who was ideologically and physiologically closer to commies than Churchill., you know national - socialists (something like KPRF today, putin´s commies) .

 

[SavannahMann]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

The Russians were not ready. The T-34 Tank was just coming online. The KV-1 was barely operational. The fighters that would become pivotal in the later years were barely in prototype stages. Stalin was doing everything to avoid the war. He wanted the Fascists, and Capitalists, to destroy each other so he would have the easy victory.

Stalin ignored 45 warnings in the ten days prior to the invasion. The war warnings Stalin ignored

Churchill even warned Stalin. Everyone was warning Stalin. Richard Sorge - Wikipedia

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease. They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

About 600 miles of attack from the Germans across a front of nearly two thousand miles? Come on.

"Churchill even warned Stalin." in 1941 koba hated Churchill more than he hated Hitler , who was ideologically and physiologically closer to commies than Churchill., you know national - socialists (something like KPRF today, putin´s commies) .

Yes. But Churchill hated Hitler more than Stalin. Churchill hated the Nazi’s more than anything.

Winston Churchill Quotes

That quote was in reply to the point that Communists were also opponents and could not be considered friendly.

 

[mikegriffith1]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

This belongs in “I am a Dumbass” forum.

 

[gipper]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

 

[Litwin]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

man koba and his commie dogs have done it many, many started before official WW2 times Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Finland (many times) , etc

 

[SavannahMann]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

You really are ignorant of pretty much everything aren’t you? The millions of Soviet troops encircled did not happen in a day, night, or even week. It did not happen in one big encirclement. It happened over weeks, and it happened in a number of encircling maneuvers. Time and time again the Germans captured tens of thousands of troops. Many Soviet troops fought on to the death.

Operation Barbarossa: 9 popular myths busted

I know your experience in Call of Duty says how difficult it is. But in reality if you give a Soldier a week they can have barbed wire, mines, trenches, tank traps, artillery, and a world of hurt for the attacker. Imagine what can happen in the months of the invasion.

By autumn the tone of German Reports home had changed. No longer were they saying the war was won, nearly won, or home by Christmas. They were saying that the Soviets were animals. Inhuman.

German Army General Chief of Staff Franz Haldervon Armin:

"The Russian Colossus...has been underestimated by us...whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen." - Commenting on the might of the Soviet Army following the invasion of the Soviet Union

The Germans were promised a quick victory. They did not get it. By the time they reached Moscow, German units had suffered 30 to 40% casualties. That included a lot of Sergeants and Company Grade Officers. People they could not replace for years. Experience the Germans would never be able to replace.

The reason Germany lost the war? First the Little Corporal was not a brilliant leader. Second Germany did not plan for a long war. Third Hitler preferred sycophants to capability in subordinates. But mostly it was Hitler’s idiocy in invading the Soviet Union. That would consume resources and lives like nothing else. But like most fools, Hitler believed his own Propaganda.

 

[SavannahMann]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

 

[Litwin]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

You really are ignorant of pretty much everything aren’t you? The millions of Soviet troops encircled did not happen in a day, night, or even week. It did not happen in one big encirclement. It happened over weeks, and it happened in a number of encircling maneuvers. Time and time again the Germans captured tens of thousands of troops. Many Soviet troops fought on to the death.

Operation Barbarossa: 9 popular myths busted

I know your experience in Call of Duty says how difficult it is. But in reality if you give a Soldier a week they can have barbed wire, mines, trenches, tank traps, artillery, and a world of hurt for the attacker. Imagine what can happen in the months of the invasion.

By autumn the tone of German Reports home had changed. No longer were they saying the war was won, nearly won, or home by Christmas. They were saying that the Soviets were animals. Inhuman.

German Army General Chief of Staff Franz Haldervon Armin:

"The Russian Colossus...has been underestimated by us...whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen." - Commenting on the might of the Soviet Army following the invasion of the Soviet Union

The Germans were promised a quick victory. They did not get it. By the time they reached Moscow, German units had suffered 30 to 40% casualties. That included a lot of Sergeants and Company Grade Officers. People they could not replace for years. Experience the Germans would never be able to replace.

The reason Germany lost the war? First the Little Corporal was not a brilliant leader. Second Germany did not plan for a long war. Third Hitler preferred sycophants to capability in subordinates. But mostly it was Hitler’s idiocy in invading the Soviet Union. That would consume resources and lives like nothing else. But like most fools, Hitler believed his own Propaganda.

can i make it shorter ? he outstretched his supply lines . it has happened with many military leaders before and after him. Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Arabs (in France) even the great Mongols.. etc. + frankly they have had 0 chance against USA , much like ussr has had 0 chance . it was just matter of time for there both despotic empires

 

[gipper]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

 

[Litwin]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

this is well-known information , but i am 100% sure that USA´d win the all 3 wars anyway, with this scenario much faster
"
Allied divisions to Scandinavia to fight the Russians on behalf of the Finns. Indeed, during much of this period Allied hostility seems to have been far greater towards the Soviets than towards Germany, despite the nominal state of war against the latter, with French sentiments being particularly strong. As one British elected official remarked, “One has the impression that France is at war with Russia and merely on very unfriendly terms with Germany.”

The Allies intended to use Polish exile forces in their ground combat against the Soviets,..."

 

[gipper]

If troops are massed for the offensive, they can be shifted to the defensive in hours with ease.

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

They can certainly handle a counter attack to regain lost territory. Yet this didn’t happen. Millions of troops were encircled and either killed or captured. This reality contrasts with the idea that Stalin started the war. Nonsense. If Russia was the ones who started it, why were they caught flat footed and pushed across all of their recently acquired Eastern Europe and to the Suburbs of Moscow before General Winter saved them?

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

this is well-known information , but i am 100% sure that USA´d win the all 3 wars anyway, with this scenario much faster
"
Allied divisions to Scandinavia to fight the Russians on behalf of the Finns. Indeed, during much of this period Allied hostility seems to have been far greater towards the Soviets than towards Germany, despite the nominal state of war against the latter, with French sentiments being particularly strong. As one British elected official remarked, “One has the impression that France is at war with Russia and merely on very unfriendly terms with Germany.”

The Allies intended to use Polish exile forces in their ground combat against the Soviets,..."

It’s not well known in the USA, as evident by Savannahman’s uninformed post. Most Americas have little understanding of the totality of WWII. They know of America’s involvement and have romanticized it as The Good War fought by the Greatest Generation. Yeah...it’s bull shit.

Few Americans know the Allies intended a mass bombing mission on Stalin’s oil field. Had this happened, who knows what would have resulted?

I do find it hard to believe Koba and Hitler could have gotten along. Hitler wanted to conquer western Russia and repopulate it with Germans. Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. Not likely they would have been allies for long.

 

[SavannahMann]

No, they cannot be, unless you're talking about hasty, make-shift defensive positions. To prepare a regular, solid defense takes a lot longer than a few hours. Plus, the Soviets didn't have even a few hours because the Germans caught them by surprise, since Stalin had ignored the numerous warnings he had received.

Okay, you're another one who obviously hasn't bothered to read either Suvorov's or Solonin's research. Suvorov notes that a number of Soviet generals later admitted that they were days away from launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all thoroughly documented in Suvorov's book.

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

this is well-known information , but i am 100% sure that USA´d win the all 3 wars anyway, with this scenario much faster
"
Allied divisions to Scandinavia to fight the Russians on behalf of the Finns. Indeed, during much of this period Allied hostility seems to have been far greater towards the Soviets than towards Germany, despite the nominal state of war against the latter, with French sentiments being particularly strong. As one British elected official remarked, “One has the impression that France is at war with Russia and merely on very unfriendly terms with Germany.”

The Allies intended to use Polish exile forces in their ground combat against the Soviets,..."

It’s not well known in the USA, as evident by Savannahman’s uninformed post. Most Americas have little understanding of the totality of WWII. They know of America’s involvement and have romanticized it as The Good War fought by the Greatest Generation. Yeah...it’s bull shit.

Few Americans know the Allies intended a mass bombing mission on Stalin’s oil field. Had this happened, who knows what would have resulted?

I do find it hard to believe Koba and Hitler could have gotten along. Hitler wanted to conquer western Russia and repopulate it with Germans. Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. Not likely they would have been allies for long.

I have a question. Perhaps you can help me. How exactly was the plan to bomb Russia part of the proof that Russia was responsible for World War II? I only ask because this thread was about how the Russians were responsible for the war.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Serious researchers do not condemn a book they have not read, especially if the book has been published by a respected and established publishing house like the U.S. Naval Institute Press. By the way, here is what the U.S. Naval Institute says about Suvorov's book:

Bestselling author Victor Suvorov probes newly released Soviet documents and reevaluates existing material to analyze Stalin's strategic design to conquer Europe and the reasons behind his controversial support for Nazi Germany. A former Soviet army intelligence officer, the author explains that Stalin's strategy leading up to World War II grew from Vladimir Lenin's belief that if World War I did not ignite the worldwide Communist revolution, then a second world war would be needed to achieve it. Stalin saw Nazi Germany as the power that would fight and weaken capitalist countries so that Soviet armies could then sweep across Europe. Suvorov reveals how Stalin conspired with German leaders to bypass the Versailles Treaty, which forbade German rearmament, and secretly trained German engineers and officers and provided bases and factories for war. He also calls attention to the 1939 nonaggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany that allowed Hitler to proceed with his plans to invade Poland, fomenting war in Europe.​

Suvorov debunks the theory that Stalin was duped by Hitler and that the Soviet Union was a victim of Nazi aggression. Instead, he makes the case that Stalin neither feared Hitler nor mistakenly trusted him. Suvorov maintains that after Germany occupied Poland, defeated France, and started to prepare for an invasion of Great Britain, Hitler's intelligence services detected the Soviet Union's preparations for a major war against Germany. This detection, he argues, led to Germany's preemptive war plan and the launch of an invasion of the USSR. Stalin emerges from the pages of this book as a diabolical genius consumed by visions of a worldwide Communist revolution at any cost—a leader who wooed Hitler and Germany in his own effort to conquer the world. In contradicting traditional theories about Soviet planning, the book is certain to provoke debate among historians throughout the world. (The Chief Culprit)
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