Who Is More Likely To Be A Racist - A Liberal or a Conservative?

[George Costanza]

Gotta take a break, gang. Great discussion here - keep it up!

 

[bayoubill]

Do you know a lot of conservatives personally? A lot of liberals? Of the two groups, which contains more people that appear to you to hold racist views?

I'm pushin' 60 (birthday next month), and I've known alot of people of all political persuasions... and, over all those years, I've been surprised by people who I would have expected to be racist to turn out to be people who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to others different from themselves... likewise, I've been surprised by people who I would have expected to be non-racist to turn out to be incredibly racist... after all these years, I'm no longer surprised by people...

I think, deep down, we all are racist to some extent...

but I will say that the least racist people I've known are pretty much apolitical... they have no interest in things they can't control, and didn't much pay attention to the larger goings-on around them...

Now THAT's a damn good post!

it must be the pretzels...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hZmFDE2ts]1995 Rold Gold Commercial (with Jason Alexander) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Peach]

There are numerous definitions. This one is as good as any other, I supppose:

"Racism is generally understood as either belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others or as practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups, for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups."

Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But your question is well taken, because I suspect that before this thread is through, such things as overt v. covert racism will be discussed as well as ethnic v. racial differences in human beings and God know what else.

her question isn't raised for discussion purposes. it's raised so she can twist any comment into "racists are people who call out racists for being racist".

Rac(ism) is the idea that your race is superior than another race - hence the "ism."

"Racism" is nothing more than an allegation, and can be rarely proven...

IMO, "ism's" have gotten out of hand in the English language..

Another valid point, too many divisions. Was GWB racist? He sure didn't mind giving authority to Powell & Rice.................................

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That is an unanswerable question but I do notice that the admitted racists here are social conservatives.

True in both cases.

Does it mean that because virtually all racists identify themselves as republicans and conservatives (or at least not ‘liberal’), that all republicans and all conservatives are racists?

Of course not.

But it does compel republicans and conservatives to examine their ideology and dogma to determine why, and take countermeasures accordingly.

I have seen a number of posters taking the position that liberals are generally more racist than conservatives.

These are of course conservative posters, and as typical of conservatives they make such a claim absent any evidence.

Or their ‘evidence’ is black liberals whom conservatives incorrectly infer to be ‘racist’ because they always accuse whites of racism where conservatives believe none exists.

Would one consider keeping blacks (and other minorities) dependent on government (er taxpayer) handouts to ensure their vote in exchange for "Obama money" racist??

No.

Because the above is pure paranoid, unsubstantiated idiocy.

 

[Liability]

I have never met a politically liberal person who is a racist. I have met quite a few politically conservative people who are racists.

I am using the term "racist" here in it's classical sense. Think Archie Bunker. He was a racist. That's what I'm talking about.

That's just because you dismiss the notion that a liberal can be a racist if he embraces race-consciousness 'for good reasons."

But lots of libs wholeheartedly embrace race-consciousness as a component of governmental action. And when you have preferential treatment on the basis of color for ONE group, that automatically entails (unavoidably) negative treatment on the basis of color for OTHER group(s).

YOU may not choose to see that as racism, but there's plenty of good reason for people to disagree with your view.

"Race consciousness" and "racism" are two ENTIRELY different concepts and should not be confused. The conservative's labeling of liberals' race consciousness as racism appears to me to be nothing more than defensive deflection.

As I have said several times before on this thread:

I have trouble with this idea that a policy that obviously is designed to HELLP members of a minority race that has historically been discriminated against and perscuted in our country, is labeled "racist" because it may do so at the expense of the majority race (i.e., caucasians) that has been doing the persecuting all of these years.

That is not "raciscm." Rather, it is exactly the opposite. Might as well say that the kid who comes to the aid of a child who is being bullied in school, is himself a bully, because he is depriving the real bully of his fun.

There is another thread going in this forum right now on this very point. I am hopping back and forth between that one and this one. Check the other one out if you haven't already.

I have already posted in that other thread. (I seem to be talking mostly with you today on this topic.)

So, to be easy, breezy, cheesy and lazy, here (from that thread) is the cut and paste version of why I disagree with your argument:

Why do so many on the Right feel this way?

Anyone...?

Spot on, my friend. It's called deflection. As I posted several times on my thread on this:

I have trouble with this idea that a policy that obviously is designed to HELLP members of a minority race that has historically been discriminated against and perscuted in our country, is labeled "racist" because it may do so at the expense of the majority race (i.e., caucasians) that has been doing the persecuting all of these years.

That is not "raciscm." Rather, it is exactly the opposite. Might as well say that the kid who comes to the aid of a child who is being bullied in school, is himself a bully, because he is depriving the real bully of his fun.

Wrong.

It IS absolutely racism.

Let's go with some BASIC definitions to get started:

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. * * * *

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com

Now, let's consider your claim. I will STIPULATE that America had a history of racism. That's not much of a concession. It's the mere admission of an historical and I believe undeniable fact.

Let me further stipulate that the EFFECT of racism in America left the victims of that racial discrimination -- official and unofficial racism -- in a very disadvantaged state in terms of poverty.

Now, whether one agrees with Affirmative Action in principle or not, let me go even further and stipulate that the original motivation for AA was to give some measure of fairness to the present day victims of past discrimination. I will commend the underlying motivation of trying to rectify the harm caused. BUT that DOES beg the question. HOW do we go about fixing it without taking race into account?

And the history of AA is a history of very much TAKING race into account.

Now let's consider the practical aspect of that. BECAUSE of the impoverished educational opportunities inflicted on the victims of racism, when it comes time to get a job, they are working at a disadvantage. So, the government decides in the interest of "fairness" to put the thumb on the scale. Race consciousness is the order of the day. If you are a black job applicant, you get a leg up. Even without "quotas" the GOVERNMENT mandates it and "monitors" compliance....

What do you call it when the government policy and heavy handed action takes RACE into account in that fashion?

And you might think, "oh hell. It's only the opposite of racism. We aren't disadvantaging a black man on the basis of race! Not noble US! No no. We are giving him an ADVANTAGE on the basis of race." You might tend to feel all virtuous and noble about it. Except

The flip side is that because of that governmental policy, you ARE disadvantaging others on account of race -- the white applicants, for example.


So, once again, what do you call it when the government policy and heavy handed action takes RACE into account in that fashion?

You may not LIKE the idea of admitting that it's racism, but it is racism.

 

[bayoubill]

I have never met a politically liberal person who is a racist. I have met quite a few politically conservative people who are racists.

I am using the term "racist" here in it's classical sense. Think Archie Bunker. He was a racist. That's what I'm talking about.

I've met alot of politically liberal persons who were insidious "stealth" racists like I described in a previous post... (heck, I used to be married to one...)

and I still believe their dishonest form of racism is inherently much worse than the overt kind displayed by Archie Bunker...

Absolutely. What you are describing here is covert racism, which is defined as opposition to programs that benefit minorities or support of programs that are detrimental to minorities.

Sorry, Georgie, but your definition of covert racism is a complete crock of shit...

I'll have more to say about that later when I have more time...

 

[Mr.Nick]

I'm pushin' 60 (birthday next month), and I've known alot of people of all political persuasions... and, over all those years, I've been surprised by people who I would have expected to be racist to turn out to be people who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to others different from themselves... likewise, I've been surprised by people who I would have expected to be non-racist to turn out to be incredibly racist... after all these years, I'm no longer surprised by people...

I think, deep down, we all are racist to some extent...

but I will say that the least racist people I've known are pretty much apolitical... they have no interest in things they can't control, and didn't much pay attention to the larger goings-on around them...

Now THAT's a damn good post!

it must be the pretzels...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hZmFDE2ts]1995 Rold Gold Commercial (with Jason Alexander) - YouTube[/ame]

"These pretzels make me thirsty"

 

[Liability]

Now THAT's a damn good post!

it must be the pretzels...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hZmFDE2ts]1995 Rold Gold Commercial (with Jason Alexander) - YouTube[/ame]

"These pretzels make me thirsty"

FUCKING PRETZELS!

 

[Mr.Nick]

her question isn't raised for discussion purposes. it's raised so she can twist any comment into "racists are people who call out racists for being racist".

Rac(ism) is the idea that your race is superior than another race - hence the "ism."

"Racism" is nothing more than an allegation, and can be rarely proven...

IMO, "ism's" have gotten out of hand in the English language..

Another valid point, too many divisions. Was GWB racist? He sure didn't mind giving authority to Powell & Rice.................................

Republicans don't focus on race.....

Republicans have targeted ideas that may benefit a particular race - but how is an idea that is supposed to benefit a particular race not de facto racism, considering it generally excludes other races or genders???

I subscribe to equal opportunity for all, regardless of their race, religion, sex etc....

 

[CausingPAIN]

it must be the pretzels...

1995 Rold Gold Commercial (with Jason Alexander) - YouTube

"These pretzels make me thirsty"

FUCKING PRETZELS!

thats a SHOE hit!

 

[CausingPAIN]

I’m sorry.. I’m a little slow here! When I walked into a DNC rally with my white hood on to protest, they did not take it well? Can anyone Explain why at the GOP rally they cheer?

 

[Liability]

I’m sorry.. I’m a little slow here! When I walked into a DNC rally with my white hood on to protest, they did not take it well? Can anyone Explain why at the GOP rally they cheer?

Because they saw you getting the shit kicked out of you, no doubt.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Racism appears to be a topic du jour in the Flame Zone. It brought to mind the following question: Who would you say is most likely to be a racist - a liberal or a conservative?

Discuss.

Why does that matter? Or do you define racism differently, or condone it more readily, if it is expressed by one group or the other?

 

[gallantwarrior]

By that definion both and none of the above.
-Liberals tend to think in terms that certain groups are in "need" of assistance. The thought is contrary to equality.
-Certain sets of Conservative types (your country club set) are known for a "some people just don't belong" mentality.
-In most cases, the type of ignorance that perpetuates what I would call "hardcore" racism (Neo-Nazi and Supremicist groups), has no party.

Or defining groups of people as "either-or", i.e. conservative vs. liberal. Life is not just black and white (pun intended), it is many shades of gray.

 

[Liability]

Racism appears to be a topic du jour in the Flame Zone. It brought to mind the following question: Who would you say is most likely to be a racist - a liberal or a conservative?

Discuss.

Why does that matter? Or do you define racism differently, or condone it more readily, if it is expressed by one group or the other?

Well I think you hit on something important.

I like GC. I really do. Nice guy. But the otherwise interesting discussion he got going (and which he has also been nurturing in another thread) DOES suffer from a peculiar problem.

If he can the rest of us are not working off of the same definition of "racism," then we aren't really having a conversation about the same nominal "topic." Are we?

By the way the USMB member with the name of CausingNausea is still pretty much just a derp.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I have seen a number of posters taking the position that liberals are generally more racist than conservatives. Do you feel that way? If so, what is it about liberalism that makes it a racist political viewpoint?

Parents look out for children. Why? Because they are incapable of making adult decisions and we know they need to be protected and taken care of.

The government does this with a certain segment of the population and has for over 50 years now. They see those people as children, unable to fend for themselves.

Of course, if parents don't eventually realize that their children have grown and start letting them do for themselves, they will remain helpless because they won't ever learn to do things on their own. Good parents let children fall off their bikes as they learn to ride. They let them endure disappointments and going without some things. It's the only way the child learns to make things happen on their own. Parents would never let the children starve, but they don't tilt the playing field so their child will have an unfair advantage. And they don't continue to coddle and prevent the child from facing the real world.

What can I say about a government who has increased the coddling of certain groups and continually tell them that they can't make it on their own without government programs. There is always a mythical enemy stopping them and only government programs can get them through life.

What can you say about those who have no faith in people and no belief that people can soar on their own and all they need is the freedom to do so?

You could say that is the way the "parents" want things to be. Without the "children" being totally dependent upon them, the "parents" have no reason to do some of the things they do.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Actually, I think racism is correlated to low IQ, not party affiliation.

But don't the low IQ crowd also tend to be registered Republicans? Or just social conservatives?

No sure, but the low IQ crowd certainly has a problem with verb-noun agreement.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Georgie....definition of terms?

What is a 'racist'?

There are numerous definitions. This one is as good as any other, I supppose:

"Racism is generally understood as either belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others or as practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups, for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups."

Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But your question is well taken, because I suspect that before this thread is through, such things as overt v. covert racism will be discussed as well as ethnic v. racial differences in human beings and God know what else.

her question isn't raised for discussion purposes. it's raised so she can twist any comment into "racists are people who call out racists for being racist".

How lucky this board is to have a resident mind reader/fortune teller, sister jillian!


(Psssttt...third race at Aqueduct?...)


"racists are people who call out racists for being racist"

Actually, to set you straight...my point is that 'racist' is meaningless if it is a 'thought crime.'

You see, in America, folks are still allowed to think what they wish....

...and that will be true until folks like you take full control.

 

[Sallow]

You can't, by definitiion, be Liberal and Racist.

Doesn't work like that.

You can..be a "leftist".

 

[catzmeow]

I bet you are right.....if there was a study done I would put money on its conclusion backing up your statement.

New study links racism, prejudice and conservatism to low IQ

Hold on let me get a fox news link to balance out MSNBC

C'mon now at least go to someone reputable, MSNBC is garbage.

It is a british study reported on by MSNBC. Do you have a quibble with the scientific methodology they used, or are you just partisan yapping?