Who honestly doesn't belive in intelligent design?

[marksinvirginia]

Yes, the question of why is there evil in the world is a toughie.

Evil is simply the absense of good, in varying degrees.

******************************

Evil rulzs.... so... you have that backwards.

 

[Dr Grump]

The intelligent designer does not live within "time" but rather is eternal and has no need to be "created".

Oh, so you find it hard to believe that the universe started out as a pin prick, then there was a massive explosion, and it seems to have appeared out of nothing, but you can't see why athiests like myself have a problem with a so-called God that was always 'there' and came from 'nothing'.

Note to The Light - look up the word 'hypocrite'.

That aside, check out Stephen Hawkings "Into the Universe". You might learn something...

 

[THE LIGHT]

The intelligent designer does not live within "time" but rather is eternal and has no need to be "created".

Oh, so you find it hard to believe that the universe started out as a pin prick, then there was a massive explosion, and it seems to have appeared out of nothing, but you can't see why athiests like myself have a problem with a so-called God that was always 'there' and came from 'nothing'.

Note to The Light - look up the word 'hypocrite'.

That aside, check out Stephen Hawkings "Into the Universe". You might learn something...

Note to Dr. Grump - your advice would help you and your friends out greatly.

Note: You really should read Stephen Hawkings thoughts about the big bang and just ponder them for a while. Forget trying to hate God for a moment and ask some really challenging questions about his theory.

Maybe Lord Kelvin is right after all.

"The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." ~Lord Kelvin

 

[Newby]

The intelligent designer does not live within "time" but rather is eternal and has no need to be "created".

Oh, so you find it hard to believe that the universe started out as a pin prick, then there was a massive explosion, and it seems to have appeared out of nothing, but you can't see why athiests like myself have a problem with a so-called God that was always 'there' and came from 'nothing'.

Note to The Light - look up the word 'hypocrite'.

That aside, check out Stephen Hawkings "Into the Universe". You might learn something...

A pinprick in what or where, exactly?

 

[Newby]

Yes, the question of why is there evil in the world is a toughie.

Evil is simply the absense of good, in varying degrees.

Yes... because when god is involved, everything's fucking awesome!
Murder in the Bible

Slavery in the Bible

You point to the descriptions of the actions of man, not God.

 

[jillian]

The intelligent designer does not live within "time" but rather is eternal and has no need to be "created".

Oh, so you find it hard to believe that the universe started out as a pin prick, then there was a massive explosion, and it seems to have appeared out of nothing, but you can't see why athiests like myself have a problem with a so-called God that was always 'there' and came from 'nothing'.

Note to The Light - look up the word 'hypocrite'.

That aside, check out Stephen Hawkings "Into the Universe". You might learn something...

Note to Dr. Grump - your advice would help you and your friends out greatly.

Note: You really should read Stephen Hawkings thoughts about the big bang and just ponder them for a while. Forget trying to hate God for a moment and ask some really challenging questions about his theory.

Maybe Lord Kelvin is right after all.

"The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." ~Lord Kelvin

Where does it appear he 'hates' G-d? He simply doesn't believe G-d exists..

As for Hawkings, I think it's clear that if one reads A Brief History of Time, the big bang doesn't necessarily preclude the idea of G-d and is, in fact, consistent with creation... but only if one is not a literalist about the bible. And given that I don't believe the bible was ever intended to be taken literally, perhaps the idea of both ideas co-existing isn't so alien to me.

 

[konradv]

Life = matter + energy + information

If you have a computer without an OS it will turn on but sit like a useless zombie.

However, if you have a computer with an OS and applications it will do exactly what those applications have been "designed" to do. If it encounters an unknown command it will not develop a better program but give you a message saying "I don't know what the hell you are talking about" or simply crash.

The Laws of Chemistry and Physics are the OS, i.e. "design", evolution is the program. Like in a computer when you change data the program changes the output, but that's not "design", if the data are random mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors.

 

[vonbolical5]

wow

 

[JBeukema]

No, G-d does not require a creator.

Back to the question. How did life get started without information?

Information does not require a creator.

There, done.

Example please?

Soon as you provide an example of the highlighted

 

[JBeukema]

Evil is simply the absense of good, in varying degrees.

Yes... because when god is involved, everything's fucking awesome!
Murder in the Bible

Slavery in the Bible

You point to the descriptions of the actions of man, not God.

ordered by God/El/YHWH

 

[THE LIGHT]

Information does not require a creator.

There, done.

Example please?

Still waiting for those examples.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Life = matter + energy + information

If you have a computer without an OS it will turn on but sit like a useless zombie.

However, if you have a computer with an OS and applications it will do exactly what those applications have been "designed" to do. If it encounters an unknown command it will not develop a better program but give you a message saying "I don't know what the hell you are talking about" or simply crash.

The Laws of Chemistry and Physics are the OS, i.e. "design", evolution is the program.

Right, and an OS has a creator.

Like in a computer when you change data the program changes the output,

Yes, because the program that is doing that for you is "designed" to do that.

but that's not "design",

Wha?

if the data are random mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors.

There is no such thing as random numbers.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Oh, so you find it hard to believe that the universe started out as a pin prick, then there was a massive explosion, and it seems to have appeared out of nothing, but you can't see why athiests like myself have a problem with a so-called God that was always 'there' and came from 'nothing'.

Note to The Light - look up the word 'hypocrite'.

That aside, check out Stephen Hawkings "Into the Universe". You might learn something...

Note to Dr. Grump - your advice would help you and your friends out greatly.

Note: You really should read Stephen Hawkings thoughts about the big bang and just ponder them for a while. Forget trying to hate God for a moment and ask some really challenging questions about his theory.

Maybe Lord Kelvin is right after all.

"The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." ~Lord Kelvin

Where does it appear he 'hates' G-d? He simply doesn't believe G-d exists..

As for Hawkings, I think it's clear that if one reads A Brief History of Time, the big bang doesn't necessarily preclude the idea of G-d and is, in fact, consistent with creation... but only if one is not a literalist about the bible. And given that I don't believe the bible was ever intended to be taken literally, perhaps the idea of both ideas co-existing isn't so alien to me.

Oh, I agree that the big bang is consistant with the Bible if G-d is the one responsible for it. However, Hawkings says that it happened on its own.

 

[konradv]

Life = matter + energy + information

If you have a computer without an OS it will turn on but sit like a useless zombie.

However, if you have a computer with an OS and applications it will do exactly what those applications have been "designed" to do. If it encounters an unknown command it will not develop a better program but give you a message saying "I don't know what the hell you are talking about" or simply crash.

The Laws of Chemistry and Physics are the OS, i.e. "design", evolution is the program.

Right, and an OS has a creator.




Yes, because the program that is doing that for you is "designed" to do that.

but that's not "design",

Wha?

if the data are random mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors.

There is no such thing as random numbers.

Not denying a creator, just saying evolution is the plan. While the program may be "design", when random events are plugged in the results aren't predetermined as Intelligent Design theorizes. The part about random numbers is irrelevant. What about
"mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors"?

 

[Si modo]

I find the thread title is perfect for the question. Faith (a set of ideas that are beliefs) in ID requires faith - either faith in a God or faith in the possibility of a God.

One cannot prove or disprove God'sexistence so faith is all that is left. Believing in ID requires faith - 'I believe, therefore it is true'.

Seems rather obvious.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Oh, I agree that the big bang is consistant with the Bible if G-d is the one responsible for it. However, Hawkings says that it happened on its own.

So you're saying an event, known only by the data observed from its aftereffect, only really happened if god did it, even though god is in no way suggested from the data which produced the understanding of the event in the first place. So IF god did it, then all the evidence is valid. But if god didn't do it, then the exact same evidence is somehow magically invalidated. Right.

God'sexistence

awesome.

so faith is all that is left. Believing in ID requires faith - 'I believe, therefore it is true'.

Seems rather obvious.

Right. The problem is that these nuts then equate ALL thinking as equal but different "beliefs", when such is not the case. Some thinking is based on well documented evidence, tried, true, and predictably applicable. Other thinking is based on absolutely nothing or completely fabricated information.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The Laws of Chemistry and Physics are the OS, i.e. "design", evolution is the program.

Right, and an OS has a creator.




Yes, because the program that is doing that for you is "designed" to do that.



Wha?

if the data are random mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors.

There is no such thing as random numbers.

Not denying a creator, just saying evolution is the plan. While the program may be "design", when random events are plugged in the results aren't predetermined as Intelligent Design theorizes. The part about random numbers is irrelevant. What about
"mutations, recombinations or environmental stressors"?

You say that it happened by random events, and then you say it doesn't matter that there is no such thing random.

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, if one wanted to really do some research into the possibilities of how life started, one could start here;

The Origin of Life

Even the simplest currently living cells contain hundreds of proteins most of which are essential to their functioning. Yet such complexity cannot have stood at the origin of life. Based on research in the field it is proposed here how, once a self-replicating genetic molecule existed, life might have started and gradual evolution of complexity was made possible – in contrast to the sudden appearance of complexity that creationists claim to have been necessary at the beginning of life. Conditions for synthesis of organic molecules on the early Earth are reviewed, and ‘gene-first’ and ‘metabolism-first’ models are discussed. While the origin of the homochirality of amino acids and sugars has been a puzzling problem for decades, recent findings provide plausible explanations.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I find the thread title is perfect for the question. Faith (a set of ideas that are beliefs) in ID requires faith - either faith in a God or faith in the possibility of a God.

One cannot prove or disprove God'sexistence so faith is all that is left. Believing in ID requires faith - 'I believe, therefore it is true'.

Seems rather obvious.

Seems rather obvious that you are willfully ignorant. Your willful ignorance shows your intentions behind objecting to the truth. It is because you hate the idea of a god that you willfully misinterpret true science and gladly accept the impossible lies of evolutionism.

You have it completely backwards. In ID one is not trying to prove that a god exists in order for Intelligent Design exist. Rather, Intelligent Design is a testable conjecture which if true implies that an Intelligent Designer is necessary. I don't have to find the watchmaker who made my watch to know that it was designed. I know that my watch was designed therefore there is a need for a designer. Whether I see, touch, smell or feel that designer is really irrelevant to the whole equation.

 

[JBeukema]

Really? The watch again?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0]YouTube - Evolution IS a Blind Watchmaker[/ame]