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If you actually posed a question when you presented your false dichotomy, I may actually have dodged something. How dishonest of you to suggest that you have.Either
a) You didn't read my post
or
b) You read it and did just what I said. Willfully disregarded everything I said.
Ohhhhhhh. I just love false dichotomies!
You dodge questions quite well.
The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?
And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.
And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.
But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.
The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.
001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?
How can anyone not believe that information cannot come from nothing?
How can anyone belive that life came from a bubbling bath of chemicals and random chance when we know that it is impossible?
Well...
When a man and woman really love each other they create.
I'm wondering why there isn't an option of Reproduction.
The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?
And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.
And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.
But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.
The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.
Science,of course, says GRAVITY lit the fuse, but gravity is not an "intelligent" force so believers reject it without thought even though you admit a FORCE is responsible for the motion.
And finally, your stupid vacuum cleaner example shows a complete lack of understanding of chemistry and physics! Unlike a vacuum cleaner part, atoms and molecules are quite able to assemble themselves into more complex structures. And they don't form random structures either. Only specific structures are formed naturally according to the number of electrons in the outer shell called valence electrons. And guess what, all life is made up ONLY from these natural molecules, there are no "designer" molecules at all.
001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?
And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.
And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.
But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.
The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.
001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
There's a misconception that all opinions and ideas are equal. They're not. While both of the ideas you gave may have some "element" of faith, ONE of those ideas has physical observable ongoing EVIDENCE that supports it. The other does not.
The first problem with your "logic" is if some thing must light the fuse you have eliminated God from the equation because God is not a thing.001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.
001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness
Or, 15 billion or so years ago there was an enormous explosion that originated from a singularity the size of a proton. From that proton sized singularity all the matter in the universe erupted in one cataclysm, the matter that makes up the 400 billion or so stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, and all the matter in the rest of the 125 billion or so galaxies out there.
Seems to me BOTH explanations require an element of faith.
Well if you go with the Big Boss theory of the Bible, no other explanation is necessary. Unless you are like me and think that if we puny humans were able to figure out God and exactly how He did or does anything, He wouldn't be much of a God would he?
And if you go with the Big Bang theory, there is still a notion that something had to light the fuse. And ID-ers can comprehend a universe so vast and so intricate and so unexplainable that we can't quite grasp it all, but that there is some Intelligent Force that set it in motion. For people like me, God would be the author of science, and therefore I have no problem at all reconciling God and science in my head.
And then there is the vacuum cleaner theory. If you put all the parts of a vacuum cleaner into a big sack and shook it, given unlimited time all those parts in the sack would eventually come together as a working vaccuum cleaner until further shaking shook them all apart again. Those advocating that theory assume that we are at this particular junction of the universe because that's how all the parts came together in the sack at this time.
But then there are people like me who say okay, but something's got to shake the sack.
The point being to all this that no matter what theory of creation and evolution feels most right to you, there are huge chunks of it that nobody can explain or prove. There is plenty of room for a belief in God or Intelligent Design AND science. And we really don't have to fuss all that much in order to coexist.
Science,of course, says GRAVITY lit the fuse, but gravity is not an "intelligent" force so believers reject it without thought even though you admit a FORCE is responsible for the motion.
And finally, your stupid vacuum cleaner example shows a complete lack of understanding of chemistry and physics! Unlike a vacuum cleaner part, atoms and molecules are quite able to assemble themselves into more complex structures. And they don't form random structures either. Only specific structures are formed naturally according to the number of electrons in the outer shell called valence electrons. And guess what, all life is made up ONLY from these natural molecules, there are no "designer" molecules at all.
If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing. This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.
So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.
Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!
~Mark
The only "as some claim" who say everything came from nothing are Creationists!Where did gravity come from? and how does gravity act on nothing?
If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing. This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.
So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.
Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!
~Mark
If matter sprang from nothing, as some claim - than logic dictates that matter continues to spring from nothing.
This is, of course, unless we have run out of "nothing" from which matter can spring. But, but, but... if that is the case... nothingness is rendered finite. That would then render matter as infinite, because there would be no more nothingness left to absorb its decay.
So, my dear atheists, your Big Bang theory is now reduced to absurdity; more appropriately called... bullshit.
Reductio ad absurdum, at its best!