Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[toastman]

Israeli bullshit, of course. Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire.

Can you post a link to this alleged Israeli violence in Garza after the ceasefire ?

 

[toastman]

No they didn't. There was no border crossed.

Huh? What jibberish are you blabbing now ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Can you post a link to this alleged Israeli violence in Garza after the ceasefire ?

Propaganda question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Huh? What jibberish are you blabbing now ?

There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.

 

[Hollie]

There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.

Did you exhaust your supply of youtube videos?

 

[toastman]

Propaganda question.

Nice duck. You said Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire … I simply asked for proof. But as usual you have absolutely nothing. No surprise there.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Border Security Barrier
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Now this is just plain "emotional" and fallacious.

This is the Map (Map 6 to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement) showing the Safe Passage Routes, signed by the Palestinians as in agreement.

There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.

(COMMENT)
.
Who says Israel is not allowed to fence off their border?

◈. Erez Crossing also Beit Hanoun Crossing is a border crossing​

◈. Kerem Shalom border crossing​

◈. Rafah border crossing to Gaza​

.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Border Security Barrier
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Now this is just plain "emotional" and fallacious.

View attachment 533574
This is the Map (Map 6 to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement) showing the Safe Passage Routes, signed by the Palestinians as in agreement.

(COMMENT)
.
Who says Israel is not allowed to fence off their border?

◈. Erez Crossing also Beit Hanoun Crossing is a border crossing​

◈. Kerem Shalom border crossing​

◈. Rafah border crossing to Gaza​

.


Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, there is an international border between Palestine and Egypt at Rafah. However, those other two crossings are gates in the cage. There is no border there.

 

[Sixties Fan]

(full article online)

WATCH: Palestinian Singer Brandishes Sword at ‘Peaceful Protest’ | United with Israel

A Palestinian singer and convicted terrorist whipped up a crowd on the Gaza border by brandishing a sword.

unitedwithisrael.org

 

[Hollie]

While the Pal terrorists got some concessions from the Israelis in connection with economic aid, the Pals were quick to rattle on about their entitlement to acts of islamic terrorism and pushing (often child) 'martyrs' to the firing line.

Hamas & Islamic Jihad's True Plan for Palestinians Exposed Following Gantz-Abbas Meeting | Honest Reporting

If any additional evidence was needed that Gaza’s Hamas rulers are committed to the destruction of Israel and do not care one iota about enhancing the

honestreporting.com

Gantz and Abbas’ tete-a-tete was widely reported on and resulted in an apparent agreement on economic measures designed to help Palestinians in the West Bank, including a loan of 500 million shekels ($155 million) against taxes and tariffs Jerusalem collects on behalf of and remits to the PA but that are being withheld in accordance with an Israeli law that counters Ramallah’s “Pay-for-Slay” policy of providing monthly “salaries” to terrorists and their families.

Instead, Hamas spokesman Abd al-Latif al-Qanou described the Gantz-Abbas meeting as a “stab in the back of the Palestinian people and what they have sacrificed,” adding it was a “betrayal of the blood of martyrs.”

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think there are people who are not firing on all cylinders.

Indeed, there is an international border between Palestine and Egypt at Rafah. However, those other two crossings are gates in the cage. There is no border there.

(COMMENT)

You are not using your little gray cells (Hercule Poirot). On one side of the barrier, there is HAMAS. On the other side, there is the Sovereign Territory of Israel.

delimitation ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.​

​

boundary/ies The imaginary lines on the surface of the earth which separate the land territory or maritime zones (continental shelf and EEZ) of one State from that of another. Ideally, as a matter of common sense but little more, a land boundary should be easy to identify and difficult to cross:​

​

The perimeter that Israel holds sovereignty within, does not need your approval, or the approval of anyone else. As you are so fond of saying, the people determine that which is sovereign. And the people of Israel have (self) determined that territory. They established it and control it. The Hostile Arab Palestinians can attempt to use force all they want, but at the end of the day, their strategy will end up collapsing what little they have today.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think there are people who are not firing on all cylinders.


(COMMENT)

You are not using your little gray cells (Hercule Poirot). On one side of the barrier, there is HAMAS. On the other side, there is the Sovereign Territory of Israel.

delimitation ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.​

​

boundary/ies The imaginary lines on the surface of the earth which separate the land territory or maritime zones (continental shelf and EEZ) of one State from that of another. Ideally, as a matter of common sense but little more, a land boundary should be easy to identify and difficult to cross:​

​

The perimeter that Israel holds sovereignty within, does not need your approval, or the approval of anyone else. As you are so fond of saying, the people determine that which is sovereign. And the people of Israel have (self) determined that territory. They established it and control it. The Hostile Arab Palestinians can attempt to use force all they want, but at the end of the day, their strategy will end up collapsing what little they have today.


Most Respectfully,
R

The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.

 

[rylah]

The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.

The lie is your straw-man, and no one argues otherwise - but you.
Only you question boundaries of national sovereignty on the basis of
agreements on political boundaries, or lack of them, in the armistice lines.

The territorial boundaries of Palestine are assigned
to the re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Can an armistice agreement change that?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I did not mention "Armistice Lines" anywhere in the reply.

The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.

(COMMENT)

The use of the "Armistice Line" from 1949, as "borders", is an Arab Palestinian demand. It has nothing at all to do with the Israeli preference.

​

Summary
The delineation and demarcation of agreed upon borders are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution. A State of Palestine based on pre June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital. The Palestinian position on borders has undergone a significant transformation since 1948. The national movement once laid claim to its rights over all of historic Palestine, an area that includes modern day state of Israel. Since 1988, however, in the interest of achieving peace and ending the conflict, the Palestinian leadership limited the national aspirations to statehood to 22 percent of mandate Palestine, seeking a state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital (that is, all of the territory occupied by Israel in 1967). Despite this, Israel continues to create and change “facts on the ground,” with constructing the Annexation Wall, building and expanding illegal settlements, confiscating and grabbing Palestinian Land, demolishing of Palestinian homes, all in violation of international law.
SOURCE: LINK

The current borders, to a larger extend, do not violate either the 1979 Treaty with Egypt - or - the 1994 Treaty with Jordan. These Treaty Boundaries, annotated in detail by the treaties, were made without prejudice relative to the Arab Palestinians. And while they trace over portions of the old Armistice Lines, the current permanent international boundaries are NOT bound or ties to the Armistice Lines.

I'm pretty sure (although I cannot speak for the Israelis) that the pre-4 June 1967 Lines (another way of saying the Armistice Lines) are NOT desired by the State of Israel. The Armistice Lines only "remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The lie is your straw-man, and no one argues otherwise - but you.
Only you question boundaries of national sovereignty on the basis of
agreements on political boundaries, or lack of them, in the armistice lines.

The territorial boundaries of Palestine are assigned
to the re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Can an armistice agreement change that?

The armistice agreement was after the Mandate left Palestine.

I don't see where they were incompatible.

I just don't understand your question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I did not mention "Armistice Lines" anywhere in the reply.


(COMMENT)

The use of the "Armistice Line" from 1949, as "borders", is an Arab Palestinian demand. It has nothing at all to do with the Israeli preference.

​

​

The current borders, to a larger extend, do not violate either the 1979 Treaty with Egypt - or - the 1994 Treaty with Jordan. These Treaty Boundaries, annotated in detail by the treaties, were made without prejudice relative to the Arab Palestinians. And while they trace over portions of the old Armistice Lines, the current permanent international boundaries are NOT bound or ties to the Armistice Lines.

I'm pretty sure (although I cannot speak for the Israelis) that the pre-4 June 1967 Lines (another way of saying the Armistice Lines) are NOT desired by the State of Israel. The Armistice Lines only "remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved."

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?

 

[Hollie]

Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?

There is no cage around the islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza.

 

[Hollie]

PF Tinmore said;






He ran out of youtube videos.

 

[Hollie]

The Islamic terrorists held another fashion parade. They were prancing around in the MI,Italy style uniforms they save for such events.

The terrorists who control the Palestinian street | PMW Analysis

In a massive show of force, armed gunmen from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades held “a military exercise” in the streets of the Palestinian city of Jenin.

palwatch.org

The terrorists who control the Palestinian street​

Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Sep 2, 2021
In a massive show of force, armed gunmen from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades held “a military exercise” in the streets of the Palestinian city of Jenin.
These are some of the pictures depicting the events:

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You are confusing a "Military" arrangement (Armistice) with a "Diplomatic" solution (Treaty between states).

The armistice agreement was after the Mandate left Palestine.

I don't see where they were incompatible.

I just don't understand your question.

(COMMENT)

The Armistice Agreements are temporary (or meant to be temporary) pending a peaceful settlement. Once the peaceful settlement (as agreed upon in the 1949 Armistice) is reached the Armistice Agreement is finito.

Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?

(COMMENT)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) caused the necessity for extensive security arrangements. The strong border arrangements are a consequence of their actions.

Where does it say that one country (Israel or any other nation) cannot control its borders?

The "cage" reference is merely drama queen language to accentuate the logical fallacy that there is some wrong-doing on the part of the Israelis. Again, where is that codified in some law or treaty?


Most Respectfully,
R

Article XII (1)
Israel shall continue to carry the responsibility for defense against external threats, including the responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, and for defense against external threats from the sea and from the air, as well as the responsibility for overall security of Israelis and Settlements, for the purpose of safeguarding their internal security and public order, and will have all the powers to take the steps necessary to meet this responsibility.

ARTICLE VI Security Arrangements in the Gaza Strip​

1. The Delimiting Line
2. 1. For the purpose of the present Agreement only, and without prejudice to the permanent status negotiations on borders, the line delimiting the northern and eastern edge of the Gaza Strip follows the fence on the ground, as delineated on attached map No. 2 by an unbroken green line (hereinafter "the Delimiting Line") and shall have no other effect.
   2. The Parties reaffirm that, as long as this Agreement is in force, the security fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel shall remain in place, and that the line demarcated by the fence shall be authoritative only for the purpose of this Agreement.
3. Security Perimeter