Who Are The Indigenous People Of Palestine?

[MJB12741]

That wasn't any damn leap... it's your own "logic." And claiming "Israel is not committing atrocities" is worse than holocaust denial and shows what a low life you are.

You just admitted that holocaust denial is bad. Good for you.

Defending innocent civilians is not equivalent to committing atrocities. I have criticisms of Israel, but the idea that they are committing atrocities like enslavement and genocide is patently ridiculous.

Now hold on there. Consider documented facts. In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

And how many Jews were there before WWII and how many are here today?

1.2 million Palestinians in 1948. And now only just over 6 million of them left. It's a GENOCIDE I tell ya, a GENOCIDE. Don't you agree? Heh HeH!

 

[Meathead]

This thread reminds me of Kissinger's quote about the arguments of academics being so bitter because the stakes are so low.

 

[louie888]

Demolishing homes?

Demolishing illegally built homes is standard practice all over the world. Private land ownership in Israel is complicated and employs Ottoman land law, Jordanian land law and Israeli law. Demolishing terrorists homes is collective punishment and I am highly critical of Israel for doing this.

Torturing and imprisoning children?
Jew only roads and neighborhoods where Arab cities and towns were for centuries?
Stealing water?
Literally poisoning wells?
Murdering unborn babies at checkpoints because they would not let the mom get to a hospital?
Spraying raw sewage all over their neighborhoods?
Imprisoning over a million people in the largest concentration camp on earth? Bombing it regularly?
Killing UN workers, doctors and attacking ambulances?
Using Palestinian children as human shields?
Using false flag terrorism to get other nation's kids to fight there wars?

False accusations, all. Some deserve further conversation with reasonable people. If Coyote or Humanity show up, I'll discuss with them.

LOL. Translation: Israel commits atrocities daily!

 

[Shusha]

Demolishing homes?

Demolishing illegally built homes is standard practice all over the world. Private land ownership in Israel is complicated and employs Ottoman land law, Jordanian land law and Israeli law. Demolishing terrorists homes is collective punishment and I am highly critical of Israel for doing this.

Torturing and imprisoning children?
Jew only roads and neighborhoods where Arab cities and towns were for centuries?
Stealing water?
Literally poisoning wells?
Murdering unborn babies at checkpoints because they would not let the mom get to a hospital?
Spraying raw sewage all over their neighborhoods?
Imprisoning over a million people in the largest concentration camp on earth? Bombing it regularly?
Killing UN workers, doctors and attacking ambulances?
Using Palestinian children as human shields?
Using false flag terrorism to get other nation's kids to fight there wars?

False accusations, all. Some deserve further conversation with reasonable people. If Coyote or Humanity show up, I'll discuss with them.

LOL. Translation: Israel commits atrocities daily!

Not at all. How am I to have a reasonable conversation about a complex political situation with someone who believes antisemitic canards hundreds of years old (well-poisoning, really? You're claiming that Israel (as in the government of) poisons Palestinian wells? Come on). How am I to have a reasonable conversation with someone who demonizes Israel with the false charge of "the West Bank is bombed regularly" and backs it up with a single military operation which was specifically designed to respond to terrorism and war crimes and prevent further deaths of innocent Israeli citizens and then has the gall to call the Israeli actions atrocities, while entirely leaving out the cause of the events?

The problem with people like you is that you are so entrenched in your anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) beliefs that you are unable to see the issues objectively and in a balanced way. You use language which is false and inflammatory. You place full responsibility for everything on only the Israeli side of the conflict and ignore any complicity for the conflict by the Palestinians.

Any one of the list of topics that you provided can be discussed reasonably and objectively for those who have that ability. You just don't.

 

[louie888]

Not at all. How am I to have a reasonable conversation about a complex political situation with someone who believes antisemitic canards hundreds of years old (well-poisoning, really?

Complex my ass. And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

How am I to have a reasonable conversation with someone who demonizes Israel with the false charge of "the West Bank is bombed regularly" and backs it up with a single military operation

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly (see the items on the list you refuse to honestly discuss)... better?

which was specifically designed to respond to terrorism and war crimes and prevent further deaths of innocent Israeli citizens and then has the gall to call the Israeli actions atrocities, while entirely leaving out the cause of the events?

Always an excuse for you assholes. And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

The problem with people like you is that you are so entrenched in your anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) beliefs that you are unable to see the issues objectively and in a balanced way.

Bullshit, you are just accusing me of what you do. An old hasbara technique designed to avoid serious discussion.

You use language which is false and inflammatory. You place full responsibility for everything on only the Israeli side of the conflict and ignore any complicity for the conflict by the Palestinians.

Inflammatory language like there were no people there when the zionists took over. And then destroyed 100s of cities and towns? And then claim that history never reflected these people when the facts are in front of your nose?

They were invaded for crying out loud. Get the fuck out or learn to love in peace.

Any one of the list of topics that you provided can be discussed reasonably and objectively for those who have that ability. You just don't.

Which is why you can't.

You support war criminality and human rights abuses that are so in our faces that it defies logic, at least to those who care for human rights. I SHOWED THIS on another thread you had deleted... putz!

 

[MJB12741]

Not at all. How am I to have a reasonable conversation about a complex political situation with someone who believes antisemitic canards hundreds of years old (well-poisoning, really?

Complex my ass. And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

How am I to have a reasonable conversation with someone who demonizes Israel with the false charge of "the West Bank is bombed regularly" and backs it up with a single military operation

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly (see the items on the list you refuse to honestly discuss)... better?

which was specifically designed to respond to terrorism and war crimes and prevent further deaths of innocent Israeli citizens and then has the gall to call the Israeli actions atrocities, while entirely leaving out the cause of the events?

Always an excuse for you assholes. And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

The problem with people like you is that you are so entrenched in your anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) beliefs that you are unable to see the issues objectively and in a balanced way.

Bullshit, you are just accusing me of what you do. An old hasbara technique designed to avoid serious discussion.

You use language which is false and inflammatory. You place full responsibility for everything on only the Israeli side of the conflict and ignore any complicity for the conflict by the Palestinians.

Inflammatory language like there were no people there when the zionists took over. And then destroyed 100s of cities and towns? And then claim that history never reflected these people when the facts are in front of your nose?

They were invaded for crying out loud. Get the fuck out or learn to love in peace.

Any one of the list of topics that you provided can be discussed reasonably and objectively for those who have that ability. You just don't.

Which is why you can't.

You support war criminality and human rights abuses that are so in our faces that it defies logic, at least to those who care for human rights. I SHOWED THIS on another thread you had deleted... putz!

Now now Louie. Don't get so upset. You might work yourself into a stroke or something & we need you here to entertain us.

 

[montelatici]

Not at all. How am I to have a reasonable conversation about a complex political situation with someone who believes antisemitic canards hundreds of years old (well-poisoning, really?

Complex my ass. And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

How am I to have a reasonable conversation with someone who demonizes Israel with the false charge of "the West Bank is bombed regularly" and backs it up with a single military operation

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly (see the items on the list you refuse to honestly discuss)... better?

which was specifically designed to respond to terrorism and war crimes and prevent further deaths of innocent Israeli citizens and then has the gall to call the Israeli actions atrocities, while entirely leaving out the cause of the events?

Always an excuse for you assholes. And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

The problem with people like you is that you are so entrenched in your anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) beliefs that you are unable to see the issues objectively and in a balanced way.

Bullshit, you are just accusing me of what you do. An old hasbara technique designed to avoid serious discussion.

You use language which is false and inflammatory. You place full responsibility for everything on only the Israeli side of the conflict and ignore any complicity for the conflict by the Palestinians.

Inflammatory language like there were no people there when the zionists took over. And then destroyed 100s of cities and towns? And then claim that history never reflected these people when the facts are in front of your nose?

They were invaded for crying out loud. Get the fuck out or learn to love in peace.

Any one of the list of topics that you provided can be discussed reasonably and objectively for those who have that ability. You just don't.

Which is why you can't.

You support war criminality and human rights abuses that are so in our faces that it defies logic, at least to those who care for human rights. I SHOWED THIS on another thread you had deleted... putz!

Now now Louie. Don't get so upset. You might work yourself into a stroke or something & we need you here to entertain us.

Nice clown dance MJ, keep it up we need you here for entertainment.

 

[dani67]

Yes well, which Jews?

The Ashkenazi, and Sephardi Jews had moved out of the region for thousands of years, and mixed heavily with European.

Ashkenazi have persian .....\\

Ashkenazi-Levite Jews and their Iranian origin

Ashkan

This is an Iranian name that is still in existence, for thousands of years. And I believe the term "Ashkenazi" is ultimately derived from the Iranian name "Ashkan".


More than 2000 years ago after the eastern conquests and death of Alexander the Great, the Parthian Empire emerged stretching from Balochistan to the Levant.

Are Ashkenazi Jews from Persia? The Ashkenazi-Levite Jews Iranian origin theory


The Parthian Empire is also known as the 'Arsacid Empire' named after the first Parthian king Arsaces I of Parthia. In Iranian languages (Farsi/Kurdish), his name was Ashk (اشک) or Ashkan (اشکان) and his Parthian Empire is still called 'Ashkanian' (اشکانیان) in Iranian languages.

According to the bible a 'Kingdom of Ashkenaz' existed. Together with Ararat, Minni (Mannaeans), and the Medes they prepared for war against Babylon (Jeremiah 51:27-28). It is possible that 'Ashkenazi' became a generic term for Jews who migrated northward into the Parthian Empire, given the assumed location of the Kingdom of Ashkenaz.
The proposed lineage tree of the Ashkenaz is also described in the bible: Ashkenaz belongs to the "Japhetic" branch, not to the Semitic one. BTW, the Hebrew language belongs to the Semitic language family.

In the bible Noah had three sons: Shem (Semitic), Ham (Hamitic), and Japheth (the rest of the known world). So, the word Shem refers to both, Noah's son and the father of all Semitic people. Gen.10 declares the following nations as semitic.

"Gen10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. "

Asshur and Aram refer to Assyrians and Arameans, respectively.

Noah's other son Japheth had also children.
Gen10:
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah."

So Ashkenaz is Gomer's son, and Gomer is Japheth's son.

Gomer is regarded as a synonym for people who lived in Anatolia in that time, either Cimmerians, Gauls in Anatolia (Galatians/Celts) or people from Cappadocia, the literature has not decided yet.
Ashkenaz is also regarded as synonym for Skythians or Saka. Much much later in Medieval Times, 'Ashkenaz' was the Hebrew word for 'Germany'.

The ancestors of Ashkenazim may actually lived in Northern Mesopotamia for many centuries before moving into Europe, especially into the Rhineland as merchants. Given that most Ashkenazi Jews left Israel after the Roman conquest and they do not seem to appear in Europe until Charlemagne's time (800 AD), they must have lived somewhere else prior to that. I think it is reasonable that the ancestors of Ashkenazim were Aramaic speakers who lived in the Parthian Empire.

So, is it possible to see some Iranian admixture in Ashkenazi Jews of today?

Let's take a look at the 2. C2 Ashkenazi-Levite (Type "A" / "AJ") modal haplotype, R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657-:



I will take a first look using 37 STRs:
DYS393 DYS390 DYS19 DYS391 DYS385a DYS385b DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389i DYS392 DYS389ii DYS458 DYS459a DYS459b DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464a DYS464b DYS464c DYS464d DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAIIa YCAIIb DYS456 DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438

Here are the Top30 matches for this R1a1a Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype (excluding all actual Ashkenazi-Levite Jews).

Within the Top30 you can find plenty Iranians including the Iraqi Kurdish individual H1483 that was also described here.

Conclusion:

The Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype for R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657- may be Iranian in origin.
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com.au/20...an-origin.html

 

[dani67]

It was the political and cultural base of the Arsacid dynasty, rulers of the Parthian Empire (247 BC – 224 AD). The name "Parthia" is a continuation from Latin Parthia, from Old Persian Parthava, which was the Parthian language self-designator signifying "of the Parthians" who were an Iranian people

 

[Shusha]

Complex my ass.

What? You DON'T think the issues are complex? Come on. We can't even come to an agreement on whether or not the indigenous Jewish people have rights to their historical and ancestral homeland let alone how that is to be accomplished while also ensuring the rights of the Arab Palestinians.

And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

See? You are already getting more reasonable for having been called on it. Yes, I am aware of isolated incidents where people (on both sides) have committed evil deeds, including one where a Jewish person threw a dead chicken into a well with the intent of contaminating it. I do not in any way condone this. However this is the not equivalent of demonstrating a collective intent of either Israeli citizens nor of Jewish people in general, let alone a policy of the Israeli government. It is important to distinguish these things rather than collectively demonize based on isolated incidents. And there is a legitimate need to be aware of and sensitive to antisemitic canards and of Islamaphobic ones on both sides.

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly

See? Again, getting better for having been called on it. Thank you for withdrawing your comment that the "West Bank" is being bombed regularly, since it clearly isn't. The next step is to introduce Arab responsibility and complicity into your one-sided comments. Why was there a war in '67? Why is Gaza bombed? Why was Operation Defensive Shield a thing? What caused it?

The Arab Palestinians involved in the conflict are not "treated like shit" in a vacuum. They are "treated like shit" in response to their own actions and to a complex political and humanitarian problem. And frankly they hand out plenty of their own shit. Israeli response to that shit is just that -- a response. If you don't like checkpoints, for example, don't hand out shit for which a checkpoint is a logical and necessary response.

And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

And the Jewish people never had a problem until our land was invaded and stolen from us. See the equivalency here? Zionism is nothing more than the desire for the indigenous Jewish people of Israel to a homeland in their historical and ancestral territory. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that desire. It is, in fact, the SAME desire that the Palestinians have. Neither should be denied. Split the territory. That is what happened in all other recent global incidences of territorial dispute with multiple cultural groups. What is the big deal?

You support war criminality and human rights abuses ...

I have never supported either of these things.

 

[MJB12741]

My complaint with the Zionists is they just don't treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do. Want peace from Palestinians? History has proven king Hussein was right. If that's what it will take, then so be it Israel. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

 

[louie888]

So much bullshit so little time.

Complex my ass.

What? You DON'T think the issues are complex? Come on. We can't even come to an agreement on whether or not the indigenous Jewish people have rights to their historical and ancestral homeland let alone how that is to be accomplished while also ensuring the rights of the Arab Palestinians.

You are a hasbara recording like the others and while this is your shtick, I have covered this with you several times.

And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

See? You are already getting more reasonable for having been called on it.

and sensitive to antisemitic canards...

Fuck off... "antisemitic canards" are what you call anything that you can't discuss. I have covered this with you several times as well.

The next step is to introduce Arab responsibility and complicity into your one-sided comments. Why was there a war in '67? Why is Gaza bombed? Why was Operation Defensive Shield a thing? What caused it?

ZIONIST SHITSTAINS WHO PRETENDED TO BE JEWISH SO THEY CAN HIDE BEHIND ANTISEMITIC CANARDS AND GO ON A MULTI-DECADE MASS MURDER SPREE ON STOLEN LAND WHERE THEY LIVE ABOVE THE LAWS OF ALL OTHER NATIONS. AS A BONUS, THEY STOLE THE NAME 'ISRAEL' AND HAVE NO MORE RIGHT TO LIVE THERE, LET ALONE BOMB THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO THEY KEEP LOCKED IN THE LARGEST CAGE OUR WORLD HAS EVER SEEN, LET ALONE CALL THEMSELVES JEWS.

The Arab Palestinians involved in the conflict are not "treated like shit"

See the list you have now backtracked on. And I guess the European Jews weren't either by your "logic."

They are "treated like shit" in response to their own actions and to a complex political and humanitarian problem.

Fuck off... the zionists started this shit. It's not complex, but for someone with two brain cells that barely fire.

Jewish people of Israel to a homeland in their historical and ancestral territory. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that desire.

Again with this crap. Like there is nothing wrong with a Mexican cult moving into Texas, murdering whoever they can, taking everyone else's homes and then forcing everyone who still wont leave to live behind the walls that they surrounded Dallas with and bomb them regularly.

Gotcha.

You support war criminality and human rights abuses ...

I have never supported either of these things.

You do it daily. You just did it again.

Moron.

 

[MJB12741]

So much bullshit so little time.

Complex my ass.

What? You DON'T think the issues are complex? Come on. We can't even come to an agreement on whether or not the indigenous Jewish people have rights to their historical and ancestral homeland let alone how that is to be accomplished while also ensuring the rights of the Arab Palestinians.

You are a hasbara recording like the others and while this is your shtick, I have covered this with you several times.

And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

See? You are already getting more reasonable for having been called on it.

and sensitive to antisemitic canards...

Fuck off... "antisemitic canards" are what you call anything that you can't discuss. I have covered this with you several times as well.

The next step is to introduce Arab responsibility and complicity into your one-sided comments. Why was there a war in '67? Why is Gaza bombed? Why was Operation Defensive Shield a thing? What caused it?

ZIONIST SHITSTAINS WHO PRETENDED TO BE JEWISH SO THEY CAN HIDE BEHIND ANTISEMITIC CANARDS AND GO ON A MULTI-DECADE MASS MURDER SPREE ON STOLEN LAND WHERE THEY LIVE ABOVE THE LAWS OF ALL OTHER NATIONS. AS A BONUS, THEY STOLE THE NAME 'ISRAEL' AND HAVE NO MORE RIGHT TO LIVE THERE, LET ALONE BOMB THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO THEY KEEP LOCKED IN THE LARGEST CAGE OUR WORLD HAS EVER SEEN, LET ALONE CALL THEMSELVES JEWS.

The Arab Palestinians involved in the conflict are not "treated like shit"

See the list you have now backtracked on. And I guess the European Jews weren't either by your "logic."

They are "treated like shit" in response to their own actions and to a complex political and humanitarian problem.

Fuck off... the zionists started this shit. It's not complex, but for someone with two brain cells that barely fire.

Jewish people of Israel to a homeland in their historical and ancestral territory. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that desire.

Again with this crap. Like there is nothing wrong with a Mexican cult moving into Texas, murdering whoever they can, taking everyone else's homes and then forcing everyone who still wont leave to live behind the walls that they surrounded Dallas with and bomb them regularly.

Gotcha.

You support war criminality and human rights abuses ...

I have never supported either of these things.

You do it daily. You just did it again.

Moron.

SCORE:

Shusha 6
Louie 0

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine had been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. Palestine was a center for world trade for thousands of years. Many people came and left.

However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. Those are the people who built the place where they live.

Those people are the Palestinians.

While I have no argument that the invaders who stayed and put down roots are Palestinians and as such have rights to sovereignty in Palestine -- this is not the same as "indigenous".

No reasonable person can argue that the Jewish people aren't indigenous to Israel.

The question, as it relates to sovereignty, has always been whether or not a people removed from an indigenous territory retain their "belonging" to the indigenous group over generations.

Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity.

So all Christians are indigenous to Palestine.

Your premise is devoid of any logic.

 

[Vagabond63]

Anyone opposed to facts & logic on this issue?

153_Who Are the Indigenous People of Palestine? | FLAME

Well, although I'm not particularly "opposed", I do have to say that anyone who calls Hieroglyphs, "Cuneiform" clearly has no idea what he's talking about, so that probably sums up the rest of the article, which is also billed as a "public relations message", so we can probably discount any "facts" therein, or indeed, "logic".

Aha. So in all your unbiased wisdom please be so kind as to tell us what is said in the article that is not true.

I believe I've already done that, in as much as that's about as far as I got before dismissing it. Although I don't claim any expertise in this area, I think, that like any reasonable person, I can tell a piece of propaganda hackery when I see it.

Also I'm not sure why you created yet another thread on this topic, surely this would have best been posted in one of the already existing threads on this subject?

 

[Vagabond63]

Mark Twain when he visited the area saw virtually no one nor any agricultural activity. There is a very simple reason for that. The ME had the highest deathrate from plague of any region because of quarantine in place Sharia law. Also the Mongols and their successor states like Turkey held regular massacres throughout the region.

Did he? I always thought that in "Innocents abroad", he took the "Biblical route" through the dererted areas of the region and so missed out most of the cultivated areas like the Jezreel valley and the Levantine coastal strip.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes well, which Jews?

The Ashkenazi, and Sephardi Jews had moved out of the region for thousands of years, and mixed heavily with European.

Ashkenazi have persian .....\\

Ashkenazi-Levite Jews and their Iranian origin

Ashkan

This is an Iranian name that is still in existence, for thousands of years. And I believe the term "Ashkenazi" is ultimately derived from the Iranian name "Ashkan".


More than 2000 years ago after the eastern conquests and death of Alexander the Great, the Parthian Empire emerged stretching from Balochistan to the Levant.

Are Ashkenazi Jews from Persia? The Ashkenazi-Levite Jews Iranian origin theory


The Parthian Empire is also known as the 'Arsacid Empire' named after the first Parthian king Arsaces I of Parthia. In Iranian languages (Farsi/Kurdish), his name was Ashk (اشک) or Ashkan (اشکان) and his Parthian Empire is still called 'Ashkanian' (اشکانیان) in Iranian languages.

According to the bible a 'Kingdom of Ashkenaz' existed. Together with Ararat, Minni (Mannaeans), and the Medes they prepared for war against Babylon (Jeremiah 51:27-28). It is possible that 'Ashkenazi' became a generic term for Jews who migrated northward into the Parthian Empire, given the assumed location of the Kingdom of Ashkenaz.
The proposed lineage tree of the Ashkenaz is also described in the bible: Ashkenaz belongs to the "Japhetic" branch, not to the Semitic one. BTW, the Hebrew language belongs to the Semitic language family.

In the bible Noah had three sons: Shem (Semitic), Ham (Hamitic), and Japheth (the rest of the known world). So, the word Shem refers to both, Noah's son and the father of all Semitic people. Gen.10 declares the following nations as semitic.

"Gen10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. "

Asshur and Aram refer to Assyrians and Arameans, respectively.

Noah's other son Japheth had also children.
Gen10:
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah."

So Ashkenaz is Gomer's son, and Gomer is Japheth's son.

Gomer is regarded as a synonym for people who lived in Anatolia in that time, either Cimmerians, Gauls in Anatolia (Galatians/Celts) or people from Cappadocia, the literature has not decided yet.
Ashkenaz is also regarded as synonym for Skythians or Saka. Much much later in Medieval Times, 'Ashkenaz' was the Hebrew word for 'Germany'.

The ancestors of Ashkenazim may actually lived in Northern Mesopotamia for many centuries before moving into Europe, especially into the Rhineland as merchants. Given that most Ashkenazi Jews left Israel after the Roman conquest and they do not seem to appear in Europe until Charlemagne's time (800 AD), they must have lived somewhere else prior to that. I think it is reasonable that the ancestors of Ashkenazim were Aramaic speakers who lived in the Parthian Empire.

So, is it possible to see some Iranian admixture in Ashkenazi Jews of today?

Let's take a look at the 2. C2 Ashkenazi-Levite (Type "A" / "AJ") modal haplotype, R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657-:



I will take a first look using 37 STRs:
DYS393 DYS390 DYS19 DYS391 DYS385a DYS385b DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389i DYS392 DYS389ii DYS458 DYS459a DYS459b DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464a DYS464b DYS464c DYS464d DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAIIa YCAIIb DYS456 DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438

Here are the Top30 matches for this R1a1a Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype (excluding all actual Ashkenazi-Levite Jews).

Within the Top30 you can find plenty Iranians including the Iraqi Kurdish individual H1483 that was also described here.

Conclusion:

The Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype for R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657- may be Iranian in origin.
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com.au/20...an-origin.html

So that's why Israelis and Iranians hate each other. Seems everyone got it wrong, according to this article, Iran is the true home of the Jewish people, not Palestine, that must be good news for the Palestinians.

 

[MJB12741]

Yes well, which Jews?

The Ashkenazi, and Sephardi Jews had moved out of the region for thousands of years, and mixed heavily with European.

Ashkenazi have persian .....\\

Ashkenazi-Levite Jews and their Iranian origin

Ashkan

This is an Iranian name that is still in existence, for thousands of years. And I believe the term "Ashkenazi" is ultimately derived from the Iranian name "Ashkan".


More than 2000 years ago after the eastern conquests and death of Alexander the Great, the Parthian Empire emerged stretching from Balochistan to the Levant.

Are Ashkenazi Jews from Persia? The Ashkenazi-Levite Jews Iranian origin theory


The Parthian Empire is also known as the 'Arsacid Empire' named after the first Parthian king Arsaces I of Parthia. In Iranian languages (Farsi/Kurdish), his name was Ashk (اشک) or Ashkan (اشکان) and his Parthian Empire is still called 'Ashkanian' (اشکانیان) in Iranian languages.

According to the bible a 'Kingdom of Ashkenaz' existed. Together with Ararat, Minni (Mannaeans), and the Medes they prepared for war against Babylon (Jeremiah 51:27-28). It is possible that 'Ashkenazi' became a generic term for Jews who migrated northward into the Parthian Empire, given the assumed location of the Kingdom of Ashkenaz.
The proposed lineage tree of the Ashkenaz is also described in the bible: Ashkenaz belongs to the "Japhetic" branch, not to the Semitic one. BTW, the Hebrew language belongs to the Semitic language family.

In the bible Noah had three sons: Shem (Semitic), Ham (Hamitic), and Japheth (the rest of the known world). So, the word Shem refers to both, Noah's son and the father of all Semitic people. Gen.10 declares the following nations as semitic.

"Gen10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. "

Asshur and Aram refer to Assyrians and Arameans, respectively.

Noah's other son Japheth had also children.
Gen10:
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah."

So Ashkenaz is Gomer's son, and Gomer is Japheth's son.

Gomer is regarded as a synonym for people who lived in Anatolia in that time, either Cimmerians, Gauls in Anatolia (Galatians/Celts) or people from Cappadocia, the literature has not decided yet.
Ashkenaz is also regarded as synonym for Skythians or Saka. Much much later in Medieval Times, 'Ashkenaz' was the Hebrew word for 'Germany'.

The ancestors of Ashkenazim may actually lived in Northern Mesopotamia for many centuries before moving into Europe, especially into the Rhineland as merchants. Given that most Ashkenazi Jews left Israel after the Roman conquest and they do not seem to appear in Europe until Charlemagne's time (800 AD), they must have lived somewhere else prior to that. I think it is reasonable that the ancestors of Ashkenazim were Aramaic speakers who lived in the Parthian Empire.

So, is it possible to see some Iranian admixture in Ashkenazi Jews of today?

Let's take a look at the 2. C2 Ashkenazi-Levite (Type "A" / "AJ") modal haplotype, R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657-:



I will take a first look using 37 STRs:
DYS393 DYS390 DYS19 DYS391 DYS385a DYS385b DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389i DYS392 DYS389ii DYS458 DYS459a DYS459b DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464a DYS464b DYS464c DYS464d DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAIIa YCAIIb DYS456 DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438

Here are the Top30 matches for this R1a1a Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype (excluding all actual Ashkenazi-Levite Jews).

Within the Top30 you can find plenty Iranians including the Iraqi Kurdish individual H1483 that was also described here.

Conclusion:

The Ashkenazi-Levite modal haplotype for R1a1a Z93+ L342+ L657- may be Iranian in origin.
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com.au/20...an-origin.html

So that's why Israelis and Iranians hate each other. Seems everyone got it wrong, according to this article, Iran is the true home of the Jewish people, not Palestine, that must be good news for the Palestinians.

That is ridiculous. Iran (or Persia) is not the "true home" of the Jewish people. Ask yourself from where did they go to Iran & why?

 

[Indeependent]

Complex my ass.

What? You DON'T think the issues are complex? Come on. We can't even come to an agreement on whether or not the indigenous Jewish people have rights to their historical and ancestral homeland let alone how that is to be accomplished while also ensuring the rights of the Arab Palestinians.

And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

See? You are already getting more reasonable for having been called on it. Yes, I am aware of isolated incidents where people (on both sides) have committed evil deeds, including one where a Jewish person threw a dead chicken into a well with the intent of contaminating it. I do not in any way condone this. However this is the not equivalent of demonstrating a collective intent of either Israeli citizens nor of Jewish people in general, let alone a policy of the Israeli government. It is important to distinguish these things rather than collectively demonize based on isolated incidents. And there is a legitimate need to be aware of and sensitive to antisemitic canards and of Islamaphobic ones on both sides.

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly

See? Again, getting better for having been called on it. Thank you for withdrawing your comment that the "West Bank" is being bombed regularly, since it clearly isn't. The next step is to introduce Arab responsibility and complicity into your one-sided comments. Why was there a war in '67? Why is Gaza bombed? Why was Operation Defensive Shield a thing? What caused it?

The Arab Palestinians involved in the conflict are not "treated like shit" in a vacuum. They are "treated like shit" in response to their own actions and to a complex political and humanitarian problem. And frankly they hand out plenty of their own shit. Israeli response to that shit is just that -- a response. If you don't like checkpoints, for example, don't hand out shit for which a checkpoint is a logical and necessary response.

And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

And the Jewish people never had a problem until our land was invaded and stolen from us. See the equivalency here? Zionism is nothing more than the desire for the indigenous Jewish people of Israel to a homeland in their historical and ancestral territory. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that desire. It is, in fact, the SAME desire that the Palestinians have. Neither should be denied. Split the territory. That is what happened in all other recent global incidences of territorial dispute with multiple cultural groups. What is the big deal?

You support war criminality and human rights abuses ...

I have never supported either of these things.

Louie has a tiny fan club of fellow psychotics; why feed the illness?

 

[MJB12741]

Complex my ass.

What? You DON'T think the issues are complex? Come on. We can't even come to an agreement on whether or not the indigenous Jewish people have rights to their historical and ancestral homeland let alone how that is to be accomplished while also ensuring the rights of the Arab Palestinians.

And yes, "settlers" have poisoned wells.

See? You are already getting more reasonable for having been called on it. Yes, I am aware of isolated incidents where people (on both sides) have committed evil deeds, including one where a Jewish person threw a dead chicken into a well with the intent of contaminating it. I do not in any way condone this. However this is the not equivalent of demonstrating a collective intent of either Israeli citizens nor of Jewish people in general, let alone a policy of the Israeli government. It is important to distinguish these things rather than collectively demonize based on isolated incidents. And there is a legitimate need to be aware of and sensitive to antisemitic canards and of Islamaphobic ones on both sides.

And in '67? Maybe not bombed regularly like Gaza, but certainly bombed and attacked. And the indigenous human beings there are treated like shit regularly

See? Again, getting better for having been called on it. Thank you for withdrawing your comment that the "West Bank" is being bombed regularly, since it clearly isn't. The next step is to introduce Arab responsibility and complicity into your one-sided comments. Why was there a war in '67? Why is Gaza bombed? Why was Operation Defensive Shield a thing? What caused it?

The Arab Palestinians involved in the conflict are not "treated like shit" in a vacuum. They are "treated like shit" in response to their own actions and to a complex political and humanitarian problem. And frankly they hand out plenty of their own shit. Israeli response to that shit is just that -- a response. If you don't like checkpoints, for example, don't hand out shit for which a checkpoint is a logical and necessary response.

And the cause is zionism. Wake the fuck up. The Caucasian Europeans who invaded that land bever had a problem from Arab Muslims before they stole their land.

And the Jewish people never had a problem until our land was invaded and stolen from us. See the equivalency here? Zionism is nothing more than the desire for the indigenous Jewish people of Israel to a homeland in their historical and ancestral territory. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that desire. It is, in fact, the SAME desire that the Palestinians have. Neither should be denied. Split the territory. That is what happened in all other recent global incidences of territorial dispute with multiple cultural groups. What is the big deal?

You support war criminality and human rights abuses ...

I have never supported either of these things.

Louie has a tiny fan club of fellow psychotics; why feed the illness?

Nearly all of his posts die out so early. The guy is blast.