Who Actually Pays The Taxes??

[Contessa_Sharra]

www.townhall.com/columnists/brucebartlett/printbb20041019.shtml

IRS Figures: Average aggregate income taxes

Income Group-----Tax Share
Top 1%--33.7 percent
Top 5%--53.87 percent
Top 10%--65.7 percent
Top 25%--83.9 percent
Top 50%--96.5 percent

The data also reveal the despite the Bush tax cut, the income tax is still highlt progressive--taking more form each group as their incomes rise. the following percentages measure the taxes paid by each group divided by their income. Economists call this the average or effective tax rate.

Income Group:
Top 1%--27.25 percent
Top 5%--22.95 percent
Top 10%--20.51 percent
Top 25%--16.99 percent
Top 50%--14.66 percent
Bottom 50%--3.21 percent

Looks like the rich and middle-class are getting hit pretty well.

Did you consider the sales taxes, the gas taxes, and the pass through of property taxes that the lower income "we don't own so we can't deduct our mortgage payments but we pay the owners property taxes" that those on the lower end pay?


Arizona taxes business!:
Arizona
Arizona has a transaction privilege tax (TPT) that differs from a "true" sales tax in that the tax is levied on the gross receipts of the vendor and is not a liability of the consumer.[6] (As explained in Arizona Administrative Code rule R15-5-2202,[7] vendors are permitted to pass the amount of the tax on to the consumer, but remain the liable parties for the tax to the state.) TPT is imposed under sixteen tax classifications (as of November 1, 2006),[8] with the tax rate most commonly encountered by Arizona consumers (e.g., for retail transactions) set at 5.6%,[9] though cities and counties add as much as 5% to the total rate.[10] Food for home consumption and prescription drugs (including legend drugs and certain prescribed homeopathic medication) are two of many items of tangible personal property that are statutorily exempt from the retail TPT. Arizona's TPT is one of the few excise taxes in the country imposed on contracting activities rather than sales of construction materials.[11]

Sales taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arkansas taxes GROCERIES! FOOD! That is some tacky cheap charley crap!
Arkansas

Arkansas has a state sales tax of 6%, plus any additional local taxes.
Effective July 1, 2007, Arkansas state sales tax on unprepared food (groceries) reduced to 3%. Local sales taxes on groceries remained unchanged.

Georgia

Georgia has a 4% state sales tax rate. Groceries are exempt from the state sales tax, but still subject to tax by the local sales tax rate. ...As of July 2008, total sales tax rates in Georgia are 3% for groceries and 7% for other items in the vast majority of its 159 counties.

Revised October 31, 2007​

WHICH STATES TAX THE SALE OF FOOD FOR HOME CONSUMPTION IN 2007?​

Forty-five states and the District of Columbia levy general sales taxes. Most of those states have eliminated, reduced, or offset the tax as applied to food for home consumption. The relief strategies include full or partial exemptions from the sales tax for food purchased for home consumption and credits or rebates to offset the food tax. Of the states with sales taxes:

• Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia exempt most food purchased for consumption at home from the state sales tax. South Carolina is the state that most recently eliminated its sales tax on food (effective November 1, 2007).

• Seven states tax groceries at lower rates than other goods; they are Arkansas, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, and West Virginia.[1]

• Five states — Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma, and South Dakota— tax groceries fully but offer credits or rebates offsetting some of the taxes paid on food by some portions of the population. These credits or rebates usually are set at a flat amount per family member. The amounts and eligibility rules vary, but may be too narrow and/or insufficient to give eligible households full relief from sales taxes paid on food purchases.

• Two states continue to apply their sales tax fully to food purchased for home consumption without providing any offsetting relief for low- and moderate-income families. They are Alabama and Mississippi.

Local governments, which in many states levy their own sales taxes, usually exempt food if food is fully exempt at the state level . Major exceptions include localities in Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Louisiana and North Carolina. Grocery food purchases in those states are fully or partially exempt at the state level, but typically taxed at the local level.


For more details on food tax exemptions and credits, see Nicholas Johnson and Iris J. Lav, Should States Tax Food? Examining the Policy Issues and Options, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, May 1998.


Which States Tax the Sale of Food for Home Consumption in 2007?, revised 10/31/07


The home ownership regressive taxes issue is examined somewhat here.
Determinants of housing loan patterns toward minority borrowers in Mississippi.


It disproportionately affects minorities.


It must also, where occupational issues are concerned, be looked at from the point of view of slavery and post slavery in the US. During slavery, minorities, primarily black, were considered totally qualified to do anything, which included skilled crafts like carpentry, house building, furniture making, and so on. Post slavery blacks were excluded from all of the same trades as unqualified, incapable, unable to now "learn" those same jobs they had done all along. Schooling, education, training were, and in some cases continue to exclude on the basis of race.


On an unlevel playing field, sales and any other taxes disproportionately impact those on the lower end of things.


Now, included in this lower end are also those whites who are displaced increasingly as well by illegal alien minorities.


The problem is that those on the lower end do not get that their interests transcend race or ethnicity, and that economics is everything. By the disparate groups allowing themselves to get played off against each other they all lose. Joe the plumber needs to get it that he will never own the business; if he was going to, it would have happened long before now, and his "dream" is going to be nightmare before it is all over. No matter the size of the carrot dangled before him, those in power will not let him have a bite, but will keep him in a position where he thinks that he must fight his co-equally disenfranchised. Color/race/ethnicity is an artificial construct maintained to divide those who would ordinarily have common interests and power, were they to unite.

The Anonymous Liberal: The Truth About Minority Home Ownership Initiatives

 

[Navy1960]

corporation tax rates are NOT being raised....

personal, individual taxes, on the top bracket, (warren buffet, bill gates, paris hilton types) will not be extended and will fall back to what they were before the temporary tax break they were given....

these people flourished under clinton with the tax rate they will be going back to....

near 90% of small business in the USA DO NOT net more than $250 k a year and would not take a tax rate hike with this plan....they would be getting a tax break, under obama's plan...along with a $3000 tax credit for any of their new hires....in O's plan?

Jumpstart the Economy
Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families:Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills. This relief would be a down payment on the Obama-Biden long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Cutting Corporate Tax Rates for Firms that Create Jobs in America. Barack Obama will repeal tax breaks and loopholes that reward corporations that retain their earnings overseas, and will use those savings
to lower corporate tax rates for companies that expand or start operations in the United States.

Broaden the corporate tax base and eliminate special preferences: Our tax code is riddled with special
interest loopholes that allow some corporations and wealthy individuals to avoid paying their fair share of
taxes. As President, Obama would move aggressively to close inefficient loopholes by taking steps that
include:
o Reforming international tax loopholes: including reforming deferral to end the incentive for
companies to ship jobs overseas and closing the offshore pension loophole;
o Closing domestic tax loopholes: including clarifying the economic substance doctrine and increasing
reporting of capital gains to close the tax gap;
o Eliminating special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing
rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms; and
o Closing other loopholes: including taxing carried interest as ordinary income, and closing the CEO
pay loophole.

Want me to keep going Care? while this is all from Barack Obama's own tax policy from his web site and he does promise a tax break for small business in the form of small business owners making less than 250,000.00 a year his claim is that 95% of small business owners are in that bracket so therefor it's a net gain. If you look at his tax policy though in the wording ,thats a coporate tax increase anyway you slice it. Unless you happen to build, and get everything here in the United States. My point is that tax increase he plans to pay for all these big time give aways are to be funded by tax increases, but you know who is paying for those tax breaks really? Not the rich, not corporations , but you are.

 

[Care4all]

Jumpstart the Economy
Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families:Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills. This relief would be a down payment on the Obama-Biden long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Cutting Corporate Tax Rates for Firms that Create Jobs in America. Barack Obama will repeal tax breaks and loopholes that reward corporations that retain their earnings overseas, and will use those savings
to lower corporate tax rates for companies that expand or start operations in the United States.

Broaden the corporate tax base and eliminate special preferences: Our tax code is riddled with special
interest loopholes that allow some corporations and wealthy individuals to avoid paying their fair share of
taxes. As President, Obama would move aggressively to close inefficient loopholes by taking steps that
include:
o Reforming international tax loopholes: including reforming deferral to end the incentive for
companies to ship jobs overseas and closing the offshore pension loophole;
o Closing domestic tax loopholes: including clarifying the economic substance doctrine and increasing
reporting of capital gains to close the tax gap;
o Eliminating special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing
rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms; and
o Closing other loopholes: including taxing carried interest as ordinary income, and closing the CEO
pay loophole.

Want me to keep going Care? while this is all from Barack Obama's own tax policy from his web site and he does promise a tax break for small business in the form of small business owners making less than 250,000.00 a year his claim is that 95% of small business owners are in that bracket so therefor it's a net gain. If you look at his tax policy though in the wording ,thats a coporate tax increase anyway you slice it. Unless you happen to build, and get everything here in the United States. My point is that tax increase he plans to pay for all these big time give aways are to be funded by tax increases, but you know who is paying for those tax breaks really? Not the rich, not corporations , but you are.

I agree with all the steps he is taking on tax reforms except the first.

We have had 8 years with the republican trickle down "think" and LOOK where it has gotten us...

the average income for the middle class families has GONE DOWN by $1000 dollars...our retirement 401ks have lost 50% of their value, our homes that were worth more are worth 40% less and 60% of homeowners in America by the end of this year are paying an upside down mortgage....they owe more than their home is worth...

The Corporate loopholes ARE WRONG.

The corporate preferences to some corporations over others ARE WRONG.

The Corporate incentive to move jobs overseas IS WRONG.

Trickle down as george bush 1 stated, is VOODOO ECONOMICS, but for some reason MANY have been brainwashed to believe that ALL ILLS will be heeled by it, no matter when you do it, and no matter how much you do it for, which is WRONG....it doesn't work that way as Laffer (the laffer curve who reagan got his tricle down theory from) has said himself the past few years.

I just CAN NOT under any condition, continue on the financial path that this president and this congress put us on, it would be immoral to me... to do such...

I really am not an obama fan and admired mccain for over a decade, but i do agree with O's tax reforms for the most part....it is definately worth a try, because giving most of the breaks to the wealthiest has not in any way, benefited the middle class or our economy....sure the wealthy are getty wealthier but the middle class is not to the same degree, so SOMETHING is wrong.....and in this case, we do need change, not more of the failed same ole same ole think and tax policy....

I believe a strong and healthy middle class makes a STRONG AMERICA as we as a country had always believed, until this administration and all policies should be geared towards this...

oh, i do NOT agree with the windfall profits tax...that's the one thing i do disagree with but it looks like that won't be a problem in the future, especially if they begin regulating speculators and oil doesn't go out of control again.

care

 

[Turboswede]

Corporations should not be taxed, the individuals receiving the profits of the corporation should.

 

[Toro]

That's income taxes.

What about all taxes?

 

[Navy1960]

I agree with all the steps he is taking on tax reforms except the first.

We have had 8 years with the republican trickle down "think" and LOOK where it has gotten us...

the average income for the middle class families has GONE DOWN by $1000 dollars...our retirement 401ks have lost 50% of their value, our homes that were worth more are worth 40% less and 60% of homeowners in America by the end of this year are paying an upside down mortgage....they owe more than their home is worth...

The Corporate loopholes ARE WRONG.

The corporate preferences to some corporations over others ARE WRONG.

The Corporate incentive to move jobs overseas IS WRONG.

Trickle down as george bush 1 stated, is VOODOO ECONOMICS, but for some reason MANY have been brainwashed to believe that ALL ILLS will be heeled by it, no matter when you do it, and no matter how much you do it for, which is WRONG....it doesn't work that way as Laffer (the laffer curve who reagan got his tricle down theory from) has said himself the past few years.

I just CAN NOT under any condition, continue on the financial path that this president and this congress put us on, it would be immoral to me... to do such...

I really am not an obama fan and admired mccain for over a decade, but i do agree with O's tax reforms for the most part....it is definately worth a try, because giving most of the breaks to the wealthiest has not in any way, benefited the middle class or our economy....sure the wealthy are getty wealthier but the middle class is not to the same degree, so SOMETHING is wrong.....and in this case, we do need change, not more of the failed same ole same ole think and tax policy....

I believe a strong and healthy middle class makes a STRONG AMERICA as we as a country had always believed, until this administration and all policies should be geared towards this...

oh, i do NOT agree with the windfall profits tax...that's the one thing i do disagree with but it looks like that won't be a problem in the future, especially if they begin regulating speculators and oil doesn't go out of control again.

care

Care I respect your opinion and admire your passion for Barack Obama , however his economic and energy policies are the EXACT reasons why I am not voting for Barack Obama. To me while it is a noble idea to cut taxes for anyone that is burdened by it, it is a terrible idea to cut taxes for for some and not all in a retro active get back at people and companies that because of their success in this country that all the sudden makes them bad. While I don't doubt, that his tax plan if he should prevail will be implemented, when you take that and the new labor plans that congress plans to have Barack Obama sign. Your tax cut is a zero sum gain, in that Barack Obama while cutting taxes will also be trying to find new ways to keep companies from moving offshore and laying off people. This tax plan is ill conceived and very short sighted and while I have no plans to support any of the two major candidates in this election I am doing everything in my power to keep enough Republicans in the Senate to fillibuster some of this ill conceived social spending that Barack Obama plans on spending.

Consider this Care, you won't have a Middle Class if they have no place to have a job to earn enough money to fall into the Middle Class. What Barack Obama doesn't seem to understand is you cannot force a company to turn back the clock to the good old days of 1962 when Joe Lunch Pail at local 999 had a job at the plant for 50 years. One more thing to consider, these green technology jobs he speaks of, one thing he doesn't tell you is that the United States is behind in almost every single Green Technology catagory. We import solar Cells from Japan, and China, we Import Lithium Ion batteries from China and Japan, and Hybrid technology from Japan. Barack Obama's pie in the sky plans my on the surface sound appealing but when you really stop to think about them at least for me, they make no sense whatsoever and are in most cases retro-active and short sighted.

 

[Care4all]

Corporations should not be taxed, the individuals receiving the profits of the corporation should.

that would DEFER corporate taxes for decades if not generations, if they hold on to their stock shares and don't sell them, as the way our tax system is set up now with capital gains tax.

 

[Turboswede]

that would DEFER corporate taxes for decades if not generations, if they hold on to their stock shares and don't sell them, as the way our tax system is set up now with capital gains tax.

Nope,

Corporations would still pay shareholders dividends subject to tax and when owners bought and sold stock they would still be subject to the capital gains tax. A corporation is just a phantom entity designed to generate profits for its shareholders. Traditionally (barring the tech bubble) the dividend paid and the stability of the dividend payment is the primary factor driving stock prices.

Elimination of the corporate tax income would encourage corporations to invest profits in the company rather than pay the profits to shareholders. The counter balance would be that shareholders would demand that dividends be paid or sell the stock of the corporation that refused to pay dividends. We would need to eliminate the 15% rate for qualified dividends and treat dividend how they have traditionally been treated, as income.

The tax on corporate profits could only be deferred by investing capital into expansion, thus creating more jobs and increasing demand for capital resources. It would also free up credit markets as companies would go from being undercapitalized to fully capitalized.

 

[Care4all]

Nope,

Corporations would still pay shareholders dividends subject to tax and when owners bought and sold stock they would still be subject to the capital gains tax. A corporation is just a phantom entity designed to generate profits for its shareholders. Traditionally (barring the tech bubble) the dividend paid and the stability of the dividend payment is the primary factor driving stock prices.

Elimination of the corporate tax income would encourage corporations to invest profits in the company rather than pay the profits to shareholders. The counter balance would be that shareholders would demand that dividends be paid or sell the stock of the corporation that refused to pay dividends. We would need to eliminate the 15% rate for qualified dividends and treat dividend how they have traditionally been treated, as income.

The tax on corporate profits could only be deferred by investing capital into expansion, thus creating more jobs and increasing demand for capital resources. It would also free up credit markets as companies would go from being undercapitalized to fully capitalized.

don't big corps ONLY provide 20% of the jobs in the usa? why all this focus on to them and preference given to them instead of the other 80% of the businesses that employ America?

do most stocks pay a dividend? i was under the impression that less than a third of them pay dividends?

you don't pay a tax when you buy stock, so i am uncertain what you meant on that...? you do pay capital gains tax ONLY when you sell the stock and if you eliminate corp taxes then the taxes due when you sell your stock should be taxed at ones marginal rate imo and capital gains taxes of 15% and 20% should be eliminated.

taxes are still deferred for very long lengths of time and since most of our stocks are owned by people in their 401k's they can be deferred for 45 years or so if you start in with a 401k plan in your youth.

i don't understand how eliminating corporate taxes would encourage more investment as you stated, could you go more in depth on that...?

because it would seem that more investment by the corp is ENCOURAGED because they ARE taxed now, to avoid the corporate taxes they would reinvest more of their earnings than if you eliminated them?

I would also think eliminating the capital gains tax and dividend tax and keeping the corporate tax would be more beneficial if you are going to cut one of the taxes that affect corporations, though i am not necessarily convinced on that either?

care

 

[Zoomie1980]

corporation tax rates are NOT being raised....

personal, individual taxes, on the top bracket, (warren buffet, bill gates, paris hilton types) will not be extended and will fall back to what they were before the temporary tax break they were given....

these people flourished under clinton with the tax rate they will be going back to....

near 90% of small business in the USA DO NOT net more than $250 k a year and would not take a tax rate hike with this plan....they would be getting a tax break, under obama's plan...along with a $3000 tax credit for any of their new hires....in O's plan?

Most of these "wealthy" are either business owners or senior management/executive level folks. In other words they in controlling positions in their business. When you raise taxes on them individually they usually make a lot of it up by taking it out of their business. They reduce benefits, layoff workers, outsource, or simply take a tiny bit more out of the corporate profit to ensure their personal take home is not diminished. And most tax increases come ladden with extra loopholes so the end result is very little REAL increase, just a paper increase to appease the tax hike whiners.

What you people ALWAYS miss is that NO MATTER WHAT, the wealthy get theirs....ALWAYS.... one way or another. You cannot win.

 

[Care4all]

Care I respect your opinion and admire your passion for Barack Obama , however his economic and energy policies are the EXACT reasons why I am not voting for Barack Obama. To me while it is a noble idea to cut taxes for anyone that is burdened by it, it is a terrible idea to cut taxes for for some and not all in a retro active get back at people and companies that because of their success in this country that all the sudden makes them bad. While I don't doubt, that his tax plan if he should prevail will be implemented, when you take that and the new labor plans that congress plans to have Barack Obama sign. Your tax cut is a zero sum gain, in that Barack Obama while cutting taxes will also be trying to find new ways to keep companies from moving offshore and laying off people. This tax plan is ill conceived and very short sighted and while I have no plans to support any of the two major candidates in this election I am doing everything in my power to keep enough Republicans in the Senate to fillibuster some of this ill conceived social spending that Barack Obama plans on spending.

Consider this Care, you won't have a Middle Class if they have no place to have a job to earn enough money to fall into the Middle Class. What Barack Obama doesn't seem to understand is you cannot force a company to turn back the clock to the good old days of 1962 when Joe Lunch Pail at local 999 had a job at the plant for 50 years. One more thing to consider, these green technology jobs he speaks of, one thing he doesn't tell you is that the United States is behind in almost every single Green Technology catagory. We import solar Cells from Japan, and China, we Import Lithium Ion batteries from China and Japan, and Hybrid technology from Japan. Barack Obama's pie in the sky plans my on the surface sound appealing but when you really stop to think about them at least for me, they make no sense whatsoever and are in most cases retro-active and short sighted.

FIRST and FOREMOST, i have no passion in support for barak obama so there is nothing for you to admire on that....i am a diehard hillary supporter!

I think the democratic tax plan offered is stronger and better for ALL of America verses the same OLD approach of the republican tax plan that has been PROVEN the past 8 years to NOT work....except for the very, very few... jobs were not increased....so few jobs were created under president bush's reign that he actually might hold or nearing a tie, as the worst job record kept on all presidents in our history....this is the republican strategy that mccain is just following when it comes to his tax plan...

and yes, i honestly can see how you would think trickle down would work, but it simply does NOT work, unless it is done under strict parameters like reducing the higher tax rate from 50% to 30%....but from 39% to 35% it is not effective....there are studies on this and as mentioned, Laffer- the Economist who created the idea of trickle down, states recently himself.

this has nothing to do with any kind of passion for a candidate...it has to do with analysis and my conclusions of the analysis.

consider this Navy, if the middle class was not there to create and make or sell the products sold, or is not out there with enough money to buy the products that are sold, there would be no business.

I don't believe that if you make something, they will buy it... supply side economics...

I believe if they have the money, the demand goes up and the increased supply will follow the demand.

I was a Buyer/Product Marketing Director for 3 major corporations and in 20 plus some years working, i NEVER created or bought a product that there was not any demand for it....i bought and developed product that there was demand for.... Demand, ruled my supply, supply never ruled my demand....

So this is why i take the approach, of spread the wealth around and believe that if you do, EVERYONE will benefit, including the businesses that create jobs based on DEMAND, and the very wealthy as well because i have proof of 20 plus years working, that trickle up, most certainly works.

Care

 

[Care4all]

Most of these "wealthy" are either business owners or senior management/executive level folks. In other words they in controlling positions in their business. When you raise taxes on them individually they usually make a lot of it up by taking it out of their business. They reduce benefits, layoff workers, outsource, or simply take a tiny bit more out of the corporate profit to ensure their personal take home is not diminished. And most tax increases come ladden with extra loopholes so the end result is very little REAL increase, just a paper increase to appease the tax hike whiners.

What you people ALWAYS miss is that NO MATTER WHAT, the wealthy get theirs....ALWAYS.... one way or another. You cannot win.

So, because the wealthy have influence and power to get the loopholes put in that would help them avoid taxes, you think that the middle class SHOULD PAY MORE IN TAXES?

I honestly don't!

Mccain's plan makes the middle class PAY MORE IN TAXES....than obama's plan?

That sells it for me...

also the average s-corp /small business or sole propriator business in 2007 netted $45,000....all of these businesses would be getting a tax break under the democratic plan and they employ over 75% of America!

 

[Turboswede]

don't big corps ONLY provide 20% of the jobs in the usa? why all this focus on to them and preference given to them instead of the other 80% of the businesses that employ America?

do most stocks pay a dividend? i was under the impression that less than a third of them pay dividends?

you don't pay a tax when you buy stock, so i am uncertain what you meant on that...? you do pay capital gains tax ONLY when you sell the stock and if you eliminate corp taxes then the taxes due when you sell your stock should be taxed at ones marginal rate imo and capital gains taxes of 15% and 20% should be eliminated.

taxes are still deferred for very long lengths of time and since most of our stocks are owned by people in their 401k's they can be deferred for 45 years or so if you start in with a 401k plan in your youth.

i don't understand how eliminating corporate taxes would encourage more investment as you stated, could you go more in depth on that...?

because it would seem that more investment by the corp is ENCOURAGED because they ARE taxed now, to avoid the corporate taxes they would reinvest more of their earnings than if you eliminated them?

I would also think eliminating the capital gains tax and dividend tax and keeping the corporate tax would be more beneficial if you are going to cut one of the taxes that affect corporations, though i am not necessarily convinced on that either?

care

Sorry, I was answering a question that wasn’t asked, namely what’s the solution to the double taxation of corporations and individuals receiving income from the corporation. I just get so mad about the 15% rate for dividends I have a tendency to fall all over myself when I discuss it.

You are right about corporate dividends, it’s a given that before we lift the corporate income tax we would need to eliminate the capital gains preference in the code (sorry, I should have mentioned that) and the qualified dividend exception.

My main goal would be to tax the income at some point, if a Corporation expects to be in a positive tax position it will try to maximize deductible expenses. However, when a corporation is in a Net Operating Loss Position (i.e. carrying “losses” forward from prior years) the result is that there is no corporate income to tax. That’s the situation we most commonly find so that raising the corporate rate will not produce additional income.

 

[pegwinn]

Some businesses do pay taxes but they shouldn’t, taxing corporations is a silly waste of time.

Exactly.

You are exactly right... Some people fail to see (like Barrack Obama) that if you raise taxes on the corporations they raise the cost of goods... Is it really that hard to understand?

Any business.

what a CROCK of partisan poopie drivel!

first you say corporations pay no taxes because they just put it in to the product they sell...like an incorporated consumption tax, then you say we are trying to soak the rich by taxing corps....WHICH is it?

care

Most are trying to soak individual rich people. Any tax incurred by any business is amortized into the cost of the goods or services. It doesn't matter how the language is written. The cost will be passed on.

 

[Zoomie1980]

So, because the wealthy have influence and power to get the loopholes put in that would help them avoid taxes, you think that the middle class SHOULD PAY MORE IN TAXES?

I honestly don't!

Mccain's plan makes the middle class PAY MORE IN TAXES....than obama's plan?

That sells it for me...

also the average s-corp /small business or sole propriator business in 2007 netted $45,000....all of these businesses would be getting a tax break under the democratic plan and they employ over 75% of America!

The middle class doesn't pay any taxes as it is. At least not enough to matter. Those making $30,000-$60,000 pay less than 10% of the tax load. You have to bump that top number to 80,000 to get to 20%.

McCain's plan nor Obama's plan make that group pay any more. And Obama's plan is no plan at all. Raise the top rate from 35-38%??? That's a spit into the ocean. It means NOTHING. Cap Gains from 15%-20%? So what? It means NOTHING. There are no capital gains and won't be any for years now. McCain simply does nothing. Obama does nothing + .0001. So what?

And any Obama tax initiative will have to pass Congress, and it won't. Republicans and their conservative Dem allies will block anything too extreme from getting through anyway. And Obama is most certainly NOT a "soak the rich" kind of guy anyway. He's one of the rich. He's a lot like JFK used to be.

 

[Gunny]

Taxes are not punishments...those are fines

Taking something from someone they have earned and you have not without their permission by law is called what?

Theft. But it's okay for the government to do it.

 

[sealybobo]

The middle class doesn't pay any taxes as it is. At least not enough to matter. Those making $30,000-$60,000 pay less than 10% of the tax load. You have to bump that top number to 80,000 to get to 20%.

McCain's plan nor Obama's plan make that group pay any more. And Obama's plan is no plan at all. Raise the top rate from 35-38%??? That's a spit into the ocean. It means NOTHING. Cap Gains from 15%-20%? So what? It means NOTHING. There are no capital gains and won't be any for years now. McCain simply does nothing. Obama does nothing + .0001. So what?

And any Obama tax initiative will have to pass Congress, and it won't. Republicans and their conservative Dem allies will block anything too extreme from getting through anyway. And Obama is most certainly NOT a "soak the rich" kind of guy anyway. He's one of the rich. He's a lot like JFK used to be.

Let me explain it to you simple.

Guy makes $40k and pays $15k in taxes? That's a lot in taxes.

Guy who makes $250k and pays $50k in taxes? That isn't as much as the poor guy.

Its more, but not really.

That's what you don't get.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Let me explain it to you simple.

Guy makes $40k and pays $15k in taxes? That's a lot in taxes.

Guy who makes $250k and pays $50k in taxes? That isn't as much as the poor guy.

Its more, but not really.

That's what you don't get.

Arithmetic is not your strong suit, I see. 15/40 = .375. 50/250 = .250

Unless I'm mistaken the guy making 250 is (or will be) subject to the 37.5% rate (actually it will be 38% under Obama). The guy making 40 will be subject to 13% and that is slated to go to 0% in the next five years under current law...

So not sure what you think you are trying to say.

 

[Care4all]

The middle class doesn't pay any taxes as it is. At least not enough to matter. Those making $30,000-$60,000 pay less than 10% of the tax load. You have to bump that top number to 80,000 to get to 20%.

McCain's plan nor Obama's plan make that group pay any more. And Obama's plan is no plan at all. Raise the top rate from 35-38%??? That's a spit into the ocean. It means NOTHING. Cap Gains from 15%-20%? So what? It means NOTHING. There are no capital gains and won't be any for years now. McCain simply does nothing. Obama does nothing + .0001. So what?

And any Obama tax initiative will have to pass Congress, and it won't. Republicans and their conservative Dem allies will block anything too extreme from getting through anyway. And Obama is most certainly NOT a "soak the rich" kind of guy anyway. He's one of the rich. He's a lot like JFK used to be.

what percentage paid of the tax load doesn't matter to me one bit, just a partisan talking point....what percentage of ones gross earnings or rather gross income, does.

it is the only way apples can be compared to apples...

nor can income taxes be the only taxes drawn out and scrutinized....since income taxes only bring in revenues for less than 1/3 of our yearly federal budget spending...SS taxes almost bring in another third, then corporate, gas, excise taxes and licence fees etc bring in the rest....not leaving out that we are borrowing a near trillion this year alone for this year's deficit......in fact, we may actually be borrowing more than income taxes even bring... in revenues this year!

so, focussing solely on income taxes while not focussing on FICA taxes, gas taxes etc and all the other taxes and what we are borrowing to pay for our budget deficits, is honestly a waste of time and tells us nothing, when it comes to tax fairness imho...

 

[sealybobo]

Arithmetic is not your strong suit, I see. 15/40 = .375. 50/250 = .250

Unless I'm mistaken the guy making 250 is (or will be) subject to the 37.5% rate (actually it will be 38% under Obama). The guy making 40 will be subject to 13% and that is slated to go to 0% in the next five years under current law...

So not sure what you think you are trying to say.

The rich dude has write offs and in the end, still has a lot of money.

Or, gas companies should be able to charge you $100 a gallon because you can afford it.

I'm not going to explain fairness to you. The guy who makes $40k deserves the tax break. We outnumber them. We make what they sell. We buy what they sell. We have the power in america.

A guy that makes a mill should give half of it to uncle sam so the guy that makes $40k can live and save. Yes, that is how america works best.

And someone has to pay for iraq. The rich are benefitting from iraq and our kids are dying, not theirs. Except mccains son. I give him props, but still a bullshit war that the rich need to pay for.