Who Actually Pays The Taxes??

[pegwinn]

Anyways, obama is only rolling back the taxes to the clinton era, and it was ppl making $100k or more, Obama's is $250k plus, and its only an extra $300 for every $10k above $250. bfd.

Yes you can do better than zero. In Alaska, palin taxes the oil corporations and she gives it to the broke ass citizens. Why's it cool for her to do that and we can't do that for our citizens? Because there is no provision in the US Constitution to do so that's why. To be blunt there is no authority for the fed to dish out charity of any form be it foriegn or domestic. What a state does is its' own business so long as the US Constitution isn't violated. Basic Civics.

America is for we the people. Not we the corporations. First of all, $40k a yr with kids is poverty... Depends on the part of the country and the lifestyle of the family. If they are deep in credit card debt, and are living in a high cost of living area then you are likely right.

And the iraq war has driven up inflation big time. Love how you try to right wing spin it as an inexpensive war.

And those 4000 plus lives wasn't worth it. They want us out. What did you win? What did WE win? Mook tada el sadr will ultimately be president and ally with iran. Biggest blunder in american history. Are you kidding me?

The thread isn't about Iraq. Try to focus.

 

[Care4all]

My point has always been, when you cut taxes and increase spending you accomplish nothing and thats exactly what Obama plans on doing. It should be an interesting 4 years to be sure if he prevails, but I will survive this current president and the worst one before him which was Carter, so Barack Obama's little giveaway will be just one more in a long line I suppose. As always I enjoy our debates Care .

good night navy!

 

[jreeves]

Umm, nice assumption but unfortunately a bit off the mark.

I think someone has to pay taxes, and gee it might as well be the people with all the money.

Taxing the poor is like going fishing in Nevada.

Giving money to the poor in the form of tax credits is like taking a ton of fish out of the lake.

 

[zadie be]

I know taxes are tuff, out of the 4000 a month we make we bring home 2400. Then we still have property tax, and sales tax. But, if only the rich or those making over 250,000 pay taxes, then that will stop companies from expanding and creating jobs, small business will not be able to start up if their payroll in over 250,000, which many small businesses are so they will have no jobs there. Now, with no jobs then there is no salaries, and if there are no salaries, then you will need public assistance and since that will be going away due to not enough taxes being paid in to substaine the system, then you are SOL.

As much as I would love my taxes to go away I am more worried about Jobs and the economy. I would love a tax cut but, I would always want to keep our country strong. We must not increase taxes on the poor/middle class. We must give them a higher tax credit and then keep the upper class taxes as they are and this will help keep us afloat. Only one canidate has that plan and even when I play on the other team I will vote on the Rebulican side this time after taking Economic for the last two semester I know Obama's plan is so not cool.

 

[eots]

I PAY TAX..on all my none cash income...the rest does not count..it is some kind of unwritten law..its like when a tree falls in the forest... but there is no one there to hear it...

 

[zadie be]

My sister has a small business that makes close to a million dollars a year and projected to make 1.5 million next year. However, with Obama's plan she will not be able to expand or keep her employees on. She is talking about closing down if Obama takes office because she could not afford the tax increase. Each company has their taxes then they have to pay the payroll taxes. I do not know what businesses you are talking about but, they barely take their own salaries out of the business so they can keep the campany building. They simply cannot build the business with Obama's plan

 

[zadie be]

The middle class what is that. We make under 100,000 and Obama says anyone making under 250,000 is middle class. I think we are the working poor because I know we pay allot of taxes, payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes. I think we get about maybe 1/4 of what we make. We make 4000 a month bring home 2400 then with all the other taxes we barely can afford to eat. What do you think those people making minum wage are going through. But, Obama's plan will lose those jobs for the mimum wage earner because businesses will not have any new jobs created due to the rise in taxes for business. I will take the tax credit that McCain has instead to keep this country afloat.

 

[Care4all]

My sister has a small business that makes close to a million dollars a year and projected to make 1.5 million next year. However, with Obama's plan she will not be able to expand or keep her employees on. She is talking about closing down if Obama takes office because she could not afford the tax increase. Each company has their taxes then they have to pay the payroll taxes. I do not know what businesses you are talking about but, they barely take their own salaries out of the business so they can keep the campany building. They simply cannot build the business with Obama's plan

zadie, you do not understand how business taxes are calculated and paid by your 2 posts....taxes are not paid on what a business grosses, but on what they net.... what this means is that all of the companies expenses and reinvestment money in to the company is tax deductable....NNNNNOOOOOOO TAXES are paid on those expenses.....WHICH includes payroll....

the obama tax proposal would tax those individuals whose NET INCOME is over $250k, $300 dollars more for every $10,000 more in net income over the $250k....

under the $250k obama's plan gives these same businesses a TAX BREAK REDUCTION....

care

 

[zadie be]

Hey, you are entitlled to your opinion. But, for me it was sad to see a leader (Saddam and his sons)of a country pull women out of cars in front of their husbands and rape them. The husbands could do nothing. The whole world knew this but, it did not matter this were crimes against women. Saddam gased his own people, everyone looked away. I am happy we went there at least the women will not live under a President/ruler that rapes them. I know he had weapon there but, hid them. Everyone knows that whole region is a hater of America if we leave now we show we are weak and run like chickens. The bully then will come to our playground and do you want them on our soil. Go ahead make their day.

 

[zadie be]

I know that there are PIt TAXES Which for every employees the employer has to match certain taxes.

 

[editec]

My sister has a small business that makes close to a million dollars a year and projected to make 1.5 million next year. However, with Obama's plan she will not be able to expand or keep her employees on. She is talking about closing down if Obama takes office because she could not afford the tax increase. Each company has their taxes then they have to pay the payroll taxes. I do not know what businesses you are talking about but, they barely take their own salaries out of the business so they can keep the campany building. They simply cannot build the business with Obama's plan

Yeah?

Tell her to give me that business and I'll manage to run it at a profit under the Obama plan.

No, I am not kidding.

 

[sealybobo]

The thread isn't about Iraq. Try to focus.

Iraq war spending is/was so out of control that the Federal Reserve had to print more money to send over. Remember that for 5 years now Bush has gone way over budget. Printing more money caused inflation. I'm sorry that fact bothers you.

Iraq spending has a lot more than you think to do with the state of our economy.

And the constitution doesn't say the Federal Government can't tax corporations more and people less? Does it say you can? Show me.

Then read this as a homework assignment.

ThomHartmann.com - Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts

Look at how much corporations paid before Reagan. Don't just roll back Bush's tax cuts, but also REAGANS.

 

[sealybobo]

The middle class what is that. We make under 100,000 and Obama says anyone making under 250,000 is middle class. I think we are the working poor because I know we pay allot of taxes, payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes. I think we get about maybe 1/4 of what we make. We make 4000 a month bring home 2400 then with all the other taxes we barely can afford to eat. What do you think those people making minum wage are going through. But, Obama's plan will lose those jobs for the mimum wage earner because businesses will not have any new jobs created due to the rise in taxes for business. I will take the tax credit that McCain has instead to keep this country afloat.

Funny but all the Republicans on these message boards say you don't pay shit in taxes.

And i call bullshit on your friend that makes $1 million and is projected to make $1.5 next year. If he/she makes an additional $500k, then that's only an additional $37,500 if Obama wins, and small business tax credits will help negate that too, so what exactly won't she be able to do with the additional $462k?

You republicans like to paint a picture of the worst case scenerio. You are a bunch of whiners.

 

[irie]

Still on the same subject but switching gears to business.

Is there anyone who actually believe that any business pays taxes at all?

2nd highest corporate tax rate in the WORLD!!!!! And guess what, if Obama raises their taxes we will see our costs of goods and services increase to absorb the increases....and who said trickle down doesn't work

 

[Toro]

While I wont argue your point on Americans work ethic, the economic climate of 2008 vs. 1993 are very different. The idea of raising the marginal tax rate to 40% or in your words "Taking" and then giving it back to the Middle Class in the form of tax cuts is going to help narrow this gap? I do hope your kidding? You don't raise the top rate and close tax loopholes and institue a "windfall profits tax" in the hopes that it will somehow narrow the gap between the Middle Class and the wealthy. While of course there is innovation here in the United States , if the cost of doing business in the United States is too high, then those very same wealthy people and companies that provide those jobs here will find places where the cost of doing busines is not so high. There will be no shortage of countries offering shelters in for them as well . So you talk about this gap, you want the gap to narrow, well so do I, but you don't make it narrow by punishing the people that have the capability to provide the Middle Class with the means to increase their wealth. You provide them incentives to provide jobs, and find ways for them to employ Americans, and one of them is not increasing their cost of doing business here. In the end a tax cut for the Middle Class is not a tax cut when you don't have a job for taxes to be cut.

Actually, yes, throughout the 20th century raising taxes on the wealthy and redistributing the income, either in the form of higher social payments or tax cuts to lower income has helped decrease the income gap between the wealthiest and the middle class, detailed [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Consequences-Economic-Growth/dp/1400095719/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224887589&sr=8-1]here[/ame]. It is not the only reason, but it is a reason. Nor has it hurt American productivity, nor has it hurt US growth, nor has it hurt job growth.

Job growth was faster under Clinton than it was under Bush. Now, that certainly is not all due to the differences between Clinton and Bush of course, or even mostly because of the two Presidents, but the same things were being said about how badly taxes were going to hurt the economy back then. And one has to remember that even though the economy did well in the 1990s, it wasn't until about 1994-95 when job growth and incomes began accelerating, and it also was during the worst rout in the bond market ever, at least until now.

The point of all this is that it is alarmist to suggest that raising taxes on those making $250k by 3% is going to hurt the middle class. There is no empirical evidence of this.

As for corporate taxes, the effective corporate tax in the US - not the stated amount - is amongst the lowest in the industrialized world.

Fact is, though our tax laws include statutory rates that are fairly high (35% for corporations earning about $18 million or more annually) but generally in the same ballpark as those of other developed western nations, the actual tax rates paid by US corporations are extraordinarily low, around 6%. Remember the latest GAO report (reported elsewhere on ataxingmatter) that shows that two-thirds of US corporations pay no federal income tax. That's not just the ones that are losing money, but also many corporations that have record high profits (including some Big Oil companies) that end up paying next to nothing in taxes.

That's because the statutory rate of 35% is only on paper. Corporations engage in aggressive tax planning that cheats the system, and they take advantage of a bountiful number of lucrative loopholes built into the system under the four decades of Reagan-style corporate favoritism and deregulation, including items such as accelerated depreciation, various expensing provisions that let corporations deduct before they really have an economic cost, and the lucrative research & development credit that lowers taxes dollar-for-dollar for R&D expenditures that corporations have to do anyway (so they do not serve as an incentive to greater development) and that corporations have often already done prior to the enactment of the one-year "extensions" of the credit that have been taking place as transitions to no-credit for years.

ataxingmatter: Tax Foundation and Competitive Environments: more bunk!

So raising income taxes a bit on the highest earners isn't going to hurt job growth.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Taking something from someone they have earned and you have not without their permission by law is called what?

Theft. But it's okay for the government to do it.

But the gov gives itself permission, so, like it or not, it is not theft.

 

[Care4all]

Actually, yes, throughout the 20th century raising taxes on the wealthy and redistributing the income, either in the form of higher social payments or tax cuts to lower income has helped decrease the income gap between the wealthiest and the middle class, detailed here. It is not the only reason, but it is a reason. Nor has it hurt American productivity, nor has it hurt US growth, nor has it hurt job growth.

Job growth was faster under Clinton than it was under Bush. Now, that certainly is not all due to the differences between Clinton and Bush of course, or even mostly because of the two Presidents, but the same things were being said about how badly taxes were going to hurt the economy back then. And one has to remember that even though the economy did well in the 1990s, it wasn't until about 1994-95 when job growth and incomes began accelerating, and it also was during the worst rout in the bond market ever, at least until now.

The point of all this is that it is alarmist to suggest that raising taxes on those making $250k by 3% is going to hurt the middle class. There is no empirical evidence of this.

As for corporate taxes, the effective corporate tax in the US - not the stated amount - is amongst the lowest in the industrialized world.



ataxingmatter: Tax Foundation and Competitive Environments: more bunk!

So raising income taxes a bit on the highest earners isn't going to hurt job growth.

WOW! Thank you so much for gathering this information toro!!! it gives me something to begin my own search with!

i have been meaning to google it myself to see if our corporate tax rate was really one of the highest as the conservatives had been touting....i figured it was just something from a conservative site that was just twisted for partisan, divisive purpose and the guys touting it hear, believed it...without searching or double checking...

(and frankly, Dems do the same when they believe their resources as well, without checking them)

of course i will continue on and double check your sources as well, but you have lead me on the right track!

thank you again!

care

 

[Toro]

WOW! Thank you so much for gathering this information toro!!! it gives me something to begin my own search with!

i have been meaning to google it myself to see if our corporate tax rate was really one of the highest as the conservatives had been touting....i figured it was just something from a conservative site that was just twisted for partisan, divisive purpose and the guys touting it hear, believed it...without searching or double checking...

(and frankly, Dems do the same when they believe their resources as well, without checking them)

of course i will continue on and double check your sources as well, but you have lead me on the right track!

thank you again!

care

No problem.

But don't get me a wrong, a lower tax rate on corporate profits is generally better than a high rate, all else being equal. But we are running big deficits - they are going to get much bigger - and we must pay for them somehow.

 

[Care4all]

No problem.

But don't get me a wrong, a lower tax rate on corporate profits is generally better than a high rate, all else being equal. But we are running big deficits - they are going to get much bigger - and we must pay for them somehow.

to stop the bleeding right now, spending has to be cut, it just has to be...and this is not the time to get in to the argument of what should be cut, but know we have to cut, and we have to cut SMARTLY.

we are at a trillion or more deficit in this year's budget alone if all of the bailouts are included in it... and the economy and sales continue to drop and people keep getting laid off it is gonna get so much worse with much less tax revenues coming in to the kitty, coupled with more unemployment and additional stimulus going out!

This is in one year, over a TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT, ( we only bring in on a good year a trillion dollars in Individual Income tax revenues for all of America)

when in the world did the days of millions go by? let alone billions? but now trillions!!! For goodness sakes!

Anyway, in addition, i am beginning to believe that everyones' taxes are going to have to go up. This is not something i want, but it is something we all can do to get us out of this mess and also, protect our own sovereignship and protect us from another country owning us outright, thru the lending they are giving us to pay for our deficits...

this can not go on forever....it's killing our economy.

just think about it, please...because cutting spending won't do anymore, it is way beyond this...with an 11 trillion dollar debt on the doorstep which will lead to a $500 billion dollar interest payment to our lenders that doesn't even cover any reduction in our accumilated 11 trillion...coming out of our yearly budget revenues taking away from even our national defense!!!

We ARE IN TROUBLE, big big big trouble...

Now is the time for all good men, (and women) to come to the aid of their country!

I'm afraid it's really ugly out there... but together, we can make it better.

Care

 

[jreeves]

No problem.

But don't get me a wrong, a lower tax rate on corporate profits is generally better than a high rate, all else being equal. But we are running big deficits - they are going to get much bigger - and we must pay for them somehow.

Funny thing is, when you cut the corporate tax rate historically, tax revenues increase. Now why do you want to raise the corporate tax rate?

High U.S. Corporate Tax Rates. The United States has the second highest total corporate income tax rate of any developed country. In 1986 President Ronald Reagan cut the corporate income tax rate from 43 percent to 34 percent, significantly improving America’s competitive advantage over high-tax countries. In 1993 President Clinton raised the corporate income tax rate 1 percentage point, which brought the federal tax rate to 35 percent, where it remains today. However, including average state corporate taxes, the combined total U.S. corporate income tax rate is 39.25 percent, second only to Japan’s 39.54 percent. In contrast, the average corporate tax rate of industrialized countries in the Organization
for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) was 27.6 percent in 2007 [see Figure I] and is due to fall even further.


Workers bear slightly more than 70 percent of the burden of high corporate
taxes in the form of reduced wages, estimates the Congressional Budget Office.

A $1 increase in corporate taxes tends to reduce real median wages by 92 cents, concludes an Oxford University study.n A 1 percentage-point increase in corporate tax rates is associated with nearly a 1 percent drop in wage rates, according to an American
Enterprise Institute (AEI) study.
Economists caution that people ultimately pay taxes, not corporations.
Thus, corporate tax hikes unintentionally hurt workers.

Because they contribute to capital flight, high corporate tax rates also lower government revenue.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba633/ba633.pdf
Yeah let's get those damn corporations and tax 'em to death.