Whites' Rights Violated. No, Really.

[RetiredGySgt]

Joyce is a racist, that doesn't make this thread headliner somehow untrue. Nor does it make my statements racist or supportive of Joyce. That you can ignore facts and reality indicate to me a total lack of objectivity on this matter. Racism is not restricted to the majority, nor in this country just white people. Inequality has been around since time began. That you would give a pass to illegal activity because of skin color tells me a lot about you.

For the record, IF rights are not universal then no one has any. When it becomes ok to deny a person a right or list of rights because of skin color THAT is racism. It does NOT matter what color skin the racist has. And further in this country one can be as racist as they want so long as that racism does not legally deny anyone rights or privelages protected by law and the Constitution. That is called FREEDOM.

Joyce is at least open about his contempt for our legal system and our Constitution. As a Lawyer your contempt is appalling. People like Joyce are open and above board about their hatred and disdain. The ones to worry about are the ones that have the same disdain for the law but pretend they do not.

 

[Gunny]

You poor white guys. Stop, please. I'm sobbing already. Will nobody take up your cause?

I'm going to put a cup with a picture of one of you crackers on it in my local grocery store. See if I can't raise a couple of bucks for your cause.

We Shall Overcome!

Thanks for being the exclamation point to my statement.

I have no cause that pertains to my race. I think ALL US citizens should be treated equally under the law. Band-Aid "fix-it" laws do just the opposite.

If you've got nothing worthy to contribute; rather, nothing but personal insults, just go away.

 

[mattskramer]

Thanks for being the exclamation point to my statement.

I have no cause that pertains to my race. I think ALL US citizens should be treated equally under the law. Band-Aid "fix-it" laws do just the opposite.

If you've got nothing worthy to contribute; rather, nothing but personal insults, just go away.

I think that Blacks needed help. There should have been reverse discrimination for a generation or two to help equal the playing field. If your Black father was too poor to give you the advantages of a more wealthy White family had then it seems only natural that there would continue to be unequal opportunity, at least to a small degree. If your ancestors were slaves able to barely survive and my ancestors were wealthy landowners, there will be a difference in a difference between your life and my life. AN outside agent was needed to make our opportunities more equal. That has been done. We have had affirmative action and reverse discrimination for at least two generations. Blacks have been given more chances than have Whites for several years. I think that it is time to end affirmative action and truly behave colorblind as a nation.

 

[Gunny]

I think that Blacks needed help. There should have been reverse discrimination for a generation or two to help equal the playing field. If your Black father was too poor to give you the advantages of a more wealthy White family had then it seems only natural that there would continue to be unequal opportunity, at least to a small degree. If your ancestors were slaves able to barely survive and my ancestors were wealthy landowners, there will be a difference in a difference between your life and my life. AN outside agent was needed to make our opportunities more equal. That has been done. We have had affirmative action and reverse discrimination for at least two generations. Blacks have been given more chances than have Whites for several years. I think that it is time to end affirmative action and truly behave colorblind as a nation.

I don't think blacks needed help then amymore than they do now. And what about the poor whites, or any other ethnicity for that matter? This isn't about skin color. That's a ruse the elite would like you to believe in an effort to cover up the true discrimination is against class, not color.

And as long as they can keep the poor and/or less-educated believing it is about color, they'll keep us divided and focusing on the wrong issue.

 

[Annie]

I don't think blacks needed help then amymore than they do now. And what about the poor whites, or any other ethnicity for that matter? This isn't about skin color. That's a ruse the elite would like you to believe in an effort to cover up the true discrimination is against class, not color.

And as long as they can keep the poor and/or less-educated believing it is about color, they'll keep us divided and focusing on the wrong issue.

Exactly, some wrongs cannot be righted, just moved on from. Like reparations. Some blacks were free and prospered, especially in the West. Should their descendants have to pay others that were not free?

What about slaves, bonafide descendents of slaves? Some were treated well, even taught to read and families kept in tact. Should they receive less than those treated badly? More than those who were given even more? How do you quantify?

How about sharecroppers? Should they get nothing? The civil war made their lot even worse, if possible.

 

[Gunny]

Exactly, some wrongs cannot be righted, just moved on from. Like reparations. Some blacks were free and prospered, especially in the West. Should their descendants have to pay others that were not free?

What about slaves, bonafide descendents of slaves? Some were treated well, even taught to read and families kept in tact. Should they receive less than those treated badly? More than those who were given even more? How do you quantify?

How about sharecroppers? Should they get nothing? The civil war made their lot even worse, if possible.

hey, I'm ALL for sharecropper reparations. I will be more than happy to collect on my great-grandfather's behalf.

And I am more than willing to give my next paycheck to any black American who can step forward and provide evidence he/she was a slave in the US prior to 1865.

Otherwise, they don't rate shit.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Retired is right.

If he finds the quote you gonna eat those words? or pretend you never said them?

The reality is that there are a number of black "leaders" and white Liberal apologizers that DO believe blacks can never be racist, can never discriminate or be the breaker of laws designed to ensure fairness. The excuse given is along the lines that since they are a minority it is impossible for them to do any of those things.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

am i a kkk'er because i dont support affirmative action?. am i a kkk'er because, I dont support the idea held by some white liberals, and some blacks, that black people, are incapable or racism.

Its real easy to name call, but its much tougher to have a real discussion about this, Its nothing personal jillian, I just hate the nature of this board sometimes.

And? You got a point there, KKK'er? White men automatically HAD and HAVE civil rights because that's where the power is/was.

You have a problem losing your protected little place where you can pretend you're superior to everyone else? Tough. Sucks being you.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Retired, youre right, I suspect jillians comment were based on emotion.

I suggest you do a tad of history lessons, "white" people did not have equal rights and still do not. Catholics and Irish would be interested to hear how they had all those cherished rights. As would poor white share croppers and other poor whites. Jews are generally white as well and I do not recall tem have all those equal rights for the entire history of our Country. Poles and other white minorities would be interested in your blanket statement that all whites were equal under the law since 1787 or even since 1866.

And then of course we have this county where the whites were denied their rights just recently. Or are you suggesting that the Judge and prosecutor in this case were members of the KKK or someother white supremcy group?

Your a lawyer and make these ignorant statements.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Usually, the argument, you made... is made by a white person. Im sorry I assumed. And did i say it was a white man's club?. Please try not to infer racism, when their is none. I can make a mistake, without being a biggot ok?

Sorry for assuming.

Why did you assume I'm white? What the fuck is this, a white's only club? It'd be real hard for me to suffer "white man's guilt". I'm not a white man.

 

[Larkinn]

I suggest you do a tad of history lessons, "white" people did not have equal rights and still do not. Catholics and Irish would be interested to hear how they had all those cherished rights. As would poor white share croppers and other poor whites. Jews are generally white as well and I do not recall tem have all those equal rights for the entire history of our Country. Poles and other white minorities would be interested in your blanket statement that all whites were equal under the law since 1787 or even since 1866.

And then of course we have this county where the whites were denied their rights just recently. Or are you suggesting that the Judge and prosecutor in this case were members of the KKK or someother white supremcy group?

Your a lawyer and make these ignorant statements.

And what rights would those be?

And further in this country one can be as racist as they want so long as that racism does not legally deny anyone rights or privelages protected by law and the Constitution. That is called FREEDOM.

You can do whatever you want...as long as its not against the law or the constitution...err doesn't really sound like freedom to me.

posted by gunny
And I am more than willing to give my next paycheck to any black American who can step forward and provide evidence he/she was a slave in the US prior to 1865.

Otherwise, they don't rate shit.

Right...because as soon as they were no longer slaves equal rights came and everything was hunky dory, right?

And THAT is the entire problem with this argument. There ARE equality problems, and whites ARE legally discriminated against. But the second a white person peeps a word about it, the issue itself is not addressed; rather, the person and argument is dismissed out of hand with the automatic cry of "racist."

Perhaps because people find it a bit silly for the privileged class to bitch about discrimination against them.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Im sorry what is redling?. And yes racism still exists, and we should all, try to kill that virus. But racism is not confined to white people, I hope you will acknowledge that. And, I advocate, improving school districts, with school choice, for poor families, and those in under-performing schools, regardless of race. Also, in our society, we self-segregrate alot. Jews tend to hang with jews, blacks with blacks and so on, this is a general statement, but still true. I have heard youre study on job searches, and I agree its racist to say, I wont hire someone because their name is african sounding. Racism has many forms, and your right, its not rare, its happens everyday, i believe we are all atleast 1% racist, and 1% pre-judice, and its how we challenge our thoughts, and feelings, that determine our actions towards other. For example, if you have a negative thought about another race, that doesnt make you racist, but if you call them a racist term, or discriminate against them, or dont challenge the feeling, let the 1% racism, 1% prejudice grow, well then you would be racist, same for me, same for anyone else. in 2007, racism against whites is not nearly at the level at blacks, but we must destroy racism against all. We cant say, oh, well, we will let that person in to our college or hire him because he is black, because it would be wrong to do that same if the person was white. I know racism is an emotional issue, but like charles barkley says: we need an honest discussion about race.

I appreciate your thought provoking statements. And I think its too easy for you to cry racist, you will have to give more compelling evidence then just words.

Racism is institutionalized It is a threat to black people in their daily lives. For instance, the practice of “redlining” still exists, and in fact, flourishes. That is, when looking for a house, minorities will be led out of “white” neighborhoods. No matter how much money they have. It is very difficult for them to enjoy the accouterments of a middle class lifestyle, which include, most obviously, quality school districts, existing mainly in the neighborhoods they are directed away from.

Another example is, job searches. A recent study was done. The researchers made up resumes reflecting highly qualified job candidates. They put names like “Joe Johnson” on one set of resumes, and names like “Latifah Jones” on another set of resumes.

The resumes which had “white sounding” names on them got 50 percent more call-backs than the resumes with “black sounding” names. These were the exact same resumes.

Now, people will tell you racism has become rare, and it does not hold minorities back. That is, demonstrably, untrue.

White people are not threatened by racism, but any racism directed at them, is not institionalized. It cannot keep them out of homes or jobs. They benefit from the institution of racism, and always have.

And all you white guys who say different? Mostly just stone cold racists. Though there a couple of you mixed in who don't know your ass from your elbow without a map and pictures. So, which are you?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont know if he is racist or not, thats not for me to decide, only he truly knows, but i dont i dont think that joke was homophobic.

Ah, a homophobe and a racist, how cute.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Jillian. I think women should dress modestly, does that mean I support al queda, because they believe the same?

My point is, anyone on this board can make a good point, whether they are racist or not. And i think its too easy to throw that word around. I dont have enough evidence to convict anyone of racism on this board, but i can convict all of us of mean-spiritedness and bad behavior . And you are completely right about, without being enforced, our rights, go away. Because, they get trampled on.

Cute...now you support a KKK'er? Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Dude... I didn't make any ignorant statement. If you have a quarrel, take it up with the racist, anti-semitic piece of garbage who calls himself by the same name as a famous nazi sympathizer. (I'd suggest you study a bit of history and look up who William Joyce was).

I am glad, though, that you understand that equality only exists insofar as it is enforced by government mechanisms. Good on ya.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

gunny is right. Many whites who are not racist, get called racist, so the word racist loses its meaning.

Let's try to keep this in context. His points were addressing inequality, not supporting racism.

And THAT is the entire problem with this argument. There ARE equality problems, and whites ARE legally discriminated against. But the second a white person peeps a word about it, the issue itself is not addressed; rather, the person and argument is dismissed out of hand with the automatic cry of "racist."

Retired GySgt has been knee-deep in WJ's butt enough times, that I highly doubt he is suddenly going to support him. And while I support WJ's right to express his views just as much as anyone else has the right to express theirs, I most certainly don't support them.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

call me a racist term again montanajack, and youre getting a neg rep, got it buddy?. cracker is a racist term against whites, and if you dont stop, every white person on this board has the right to call you a ******.

Got my point?. No, you will probably knee jerk and take it out of context.

And for the record, im a jew, so if you wanna get your racist terms right, im a ****. Got it ?

You poor white guys. Stop, please. I'm sobbing already. Will nobody take up your cause?

I'm going to put a cup with a picture of one of you crackers on it in my local grocery store. See if I can't raise a couple of bucks for your cause.

We Shall Overcome!

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I wonder if montana hates or dis-likes whites.

Joyce is a racist, that doesn't make this thread headliner somehow untrue. Nor does it make my statements racist or supportive of Joyce. That you can ignore facts and reality indicate to me a total lack of objectivity on this matter. Racism is not restricted to the majority, nor in this country just white people. Inequality has been around since time began. That you would give a pass to illegal activity because of skin color tells me a lot about you.

For the record, IF rights are not universal then no one has any. When it becomes ok to deny a person a right or list of rights because of skin color THAT is racism. It does NOT matter what color skin the racist has. And further in this country one can be as racist as they want so long as that racism does not legally deny anyone rights or privelages protected by law and the Constitution. That is called FREEDOM.

Joyce is at least open about his contempt for our legal system and our Constitution. As a Lawyer your contempt is appalling. People like Joyce are open and above board about their hatred and disdain. The ones to worry about are the ones that have the same disdain for the law but pretend they do not.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

agreed. Its not ok, for some people to be racist, and not others. Meaning.. It is not ok for any minority to call me a white boy, or a cracker. And if they do, I should be able to sue them , or call them a spik, ******, fag, or whatever.

Equal opportunity is my point.

Will somebody understand my point

It is ok to use a racist or racial word to make a point, or in a context, but I am not suggesting its ok, to go up to people calling them racist words, but if they call you them first, you can defend yourself

I know, its racist, if someone calls me a ****, and i go hmm, they are gay, hispanic, asian, black, muslim, or whatever, to call them a racist term in kind. It might not be smart, but its hypocritical for me not to be able to defend myself. I do NOT however, call people racist names FIRST, because I dont believe in harming people, unless they attack me first.

Thanks for being the exclamation point to my statement.

I have no cause that pertains to my race. I think ALL US citizens should be treated equally under the law. Band-Aid "fix-it" laws do just the opposite.

If you've got nothing worthy to contribute; rather, nothing but personal insults, just go away.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I think your right, but wrong.

Any discrimination is wrong. I would help the poor and minorities this way. Take some money away from rich schools, and well performing schools, and give them to the poor and under-performing schools, and give parents of poor kids/under-performing schools, vouchers, so they have a choice, so their kids, can escape the under-performing schools.

Look at what magic johnson is doing. The government can consider ways to work with private sector to re-build economically disadvantaged neighborhoods, and poor neighborhoods, but we cant say, oh youre black or a minority, you poor thing, youre a victim, you need our help, because it sends a message to them : youre an idiot, you cant do it yourself, and you will be a slave to the government.

agree my friend mattskramer, disagree. Lets continue this dialogue.

I think that Blacks needed help. There should have been reverse discrimination for a generation or two to help equal the playing field. If your Black father was too poor to give you the advantages of a more wealthy White family had then it seems only natural that there would continue to be unequal opportunity, at least to a small degree. If your ancestors were slaves able to barely survive and my ancestors were wealthy landowners, there will be a difference in a difference between your life and my life. AN outside agent was needed to make our opportunities more equal. That has been done. We have had affirmative action and reverse discrimination for at least two generations. Blacks have been given more chances than have Whites for several years. I think that it is time to end affirmative action and truly behave colorblind as a nation.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree, we need to make the issue of helping people, not about race, but about, who actually needs help. Poverty knows no skin color.

I don't think blacks needed help then amymore than they do now. And what about the poor whites, or any other ethnicity for that matter? This isn't about skin color. That's a ruse the elite would like you to believe in an effort to cover up the true discrimination is against class, not color.

And as long as they can keep the poor and/or less-educated believing it is about color, they'll keep us divided and focusing on the wrong issue.