Where is the Proof that Blacks are as Smart as Whites?

[CurveLight]

Ah, jeesh! Who are you fooling...and aren't you a GIRL to boot? Ain't no way you have an IQ higher than a slug.

I dont worry about her intelligence but I do worry about yours. who said blacks can't be smart? or girls? I'm afraid you don't understand averages or 'normal distributions'

You need not worry about Ravi's intelligence. She's not being stupid, she's being dishonest.

Are you really in a position to make claims about honesty? Tell us what it is I'm not "fooling" anyone about?

 

[IanC]

have you read Ogbu's book on Shaker Heights? middle class black families going to good schools, same dismaying gap, both in educational achievement and punishable misbehaviours. I really wish you guys would actually look at reality once in a while instead of just spouting platitudes that at best are only partial truths and at worst outright lies.

Oh...you've read Ogbu's findings???

Frankly I'm astonished. Particularly because the book was written, according to the Fall 2006, The Journal of African American History:

For those who are interested in nurturing high-achieving African American students, regardless of their place in the educational system, Ogbu's findings may help to craft policies that result in significant improvements in the levels of academic achievement.

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

of course I have read Ogbu's book, as well as many others in topic. how else do you get enough information to make an informed opinion? Sowell has tremendous insight into discrimination, Murray has great clarity in describing social mechanisms, the list goes on and on. but the only author I have read that never overstates his case, who always totally investigates his research six ways to Sunday, and chases down every confounding factor is the great scientist Arthur Jensen. if he had chosen a different field the world would respect him as much as Feynman or Pasteur.

 

[Samson]

have you read Ogbu's book on Shaker Heights? middle class black families going to good schools, same dismaying gap, both in educational achievement and punishable misbehaviours. I really wish you guys would actually look at reality once in a while instead of just spouting platitudes that at best are only partial truths and at worst outright lies.

Oh...you've read Ogbu's findings???

Frankly I'm astonished. Particularly because the book was written, according to the Fall 2006, The Journal of African American History:

For those who are interested in nurturing high-achieving African American students, regardless of their place in the educational system, Ogbu's findings may help to craft policies that result in significant improvements in the levels of academic achievement.

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

of course I have read Ogbu's book, as well as many others in topic. how else do you get enough information to make an informed opinion? Sowell has tremendous insight into discrimination, Murray has great clarity in describing social mechanisms, the list goes on and on. but the only author I have read that never overstates his case, who always totally investigates his research six ways to Sunday, and chases down every confounding factor is the great scientist Arthur Jensen. if he had chosen a different field the world would respect him as much as Feynman or Pasteur.

Well, all that being as it is, I suppose you'll not hhesitate any longer in answering the question if I ask it AGAIN:

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

 

[CurveLight]

You need not worry about Ravi's intelligence. She's not being stupid, she's being dishonest.

Are you really in a position to make claims about honesty? Tell us what it is I'm not "fooling" anyone about?

I am.

and...

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew

 

[IanC]

Oh...you've read Ogbu's findings???

Frankly I'm astonished. Particularly because the book was written, according to the Fall 2006, The Journal of African American History:







How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

of course I have read Ogbu's book, as well as many others in topic. how else do you get enough information to make an informed opinion? Sowell has tremendous insight into discrimination, Murray has great clarity in describing social mechanisms, the list goes on and on. but the only author I have read that never overstates his case, who always totally investigates his research six ways to Sunday, and chases down every confounding factor is the great scientist Arthur Jensen. if he had chosen a different field the world would respect him as much as Feynman or Pasteur.

Well, all that being as it is, I suppose you'll not hhesitate any longer in answering the question if I ask it AGAIN:

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

are you asking me to answer details from a ten year old book? I can't, sorry. I don't have a photographic memory.

if you are asking me if I think there would be a difference in achievement between recent black immigrants and regular black citizens, I would say that the energetic newcomers would definitely outstrip their competition. but that is probably true for white immigrants and asian immigrants as well.

care to share the answer?

 

[manifold]

Are you really in a position to make claims about honesty? Tell us what it is I'm not "fooling" anyone about?

I am.

and...

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

 

[IanC]

the faked data and political squelching of disenting opinion brought to light about Global Warming by Climategate has led me to wonder about the differences in intelligence between the races. climategate has shown that a political ideology can overwhelm mainstream thinking to the point of manufacturing false evidence for the approved side of the argument and withholding/ignoring evidence from the unpopular side.

is there any evidence that blacks are as smart as other races? or is it just semantic arguing about what could possibly be if some magical process was finally found? Head Start, special charter school, etc seem to improve things for a short while and then the gap returns to its usual size. where is the actual evidence that the gap is not permanent and biological?

on the other hand, where is the evidence that blacks don't quite measure up intellectually? is just the act of living a form of IQ test where even small advantages in decision making (the active ingredient in intelligence tests) multiply over time to become large differences?

anybody have any thoughts or evidence they would like to discuss?

False Premise. One need not prove blacks are "as smart" as anyone else. It is assumed within the concept that man is a single entity with different flavors.

Each race has differing characteristics. But over all there is only ONE human RACE.

I'm sure you mean well but changing the definition of a word is not a winning argument. as far as assuming everyone is as smart as everyone else, why do we have to give blacks affirmative action to get them into universities then? why don't they compete like everyone else?

 

[Samson]

of course I have read Ogbu's book, as well as many others in topic. how else do you get enough information to make an informed opinion? Sowell has tremendous insight into discrimination, Murray has great clarity in describing social mechanisms, the list goes on and on. but the only author I have read that never overstates his case, who always totally investigates his research six ways to Sunday, and chases down every confounding factor is the great scientist Arthur Jensen. if he had chosen a different field the world would respect him as much as Feynman or Pasteur.

Well, all that being as it is, I suppose you'll not hhesitate any longer in answering the question if I ask it AGAIN:

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

are you asking me to answer details from a ten year old book? I can't, sorry. I don't have a photographic memory.

if you are asking me if I think there would be a difference in achievement between recent black immigrants and regular black citizens, I would say that the energetic newcomers would definitely outstrip their competition. but that is probably true for white immigrants and asian immigrants as well.

care to share the answer?

I'm not sure I understand: Are you the same Ian that was just lecturing us about reading Ogbu's book on Shaker Heights so we would actually look at reality once in a while instead of just spouting platitudes that at best are only partial truths and at worst outright lies?

Well, it sounded as if you would have the relevent information at your esteemed mental fingertip.

Let's just assume for the sake of arguement that your opinion is correct: Black Immigrants achieve more than "regular black" students.

Why?

 

[CurveLight]

I am.

and...

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew.

 

[CurveLight]

the faked data and political squelching of disenting opinion brought to light about Global Warming by Climategate has led me to wonder about the differences in intelligence between the races. climategate has shown that a political ideology can overwhelm mainstream thinking to the point of manufacturing false evidence for the approved side of the argument and withholding/ignoring evidence from the unpopular side.

is there any evidence that blacks are as smart as other races? or is it just semantic arguing about what could possibly be if some magical process was finally found? Head Start, special charter school, etc seem to improve things for a short while and then the gap returns to its usual size. where is the actual evidence that the gap is not permanent and biological?

on the other hand, where is the evidence that blacks don't quite measure up intellectually? is just the act of living a form of IQ test where even small advantages in decision making (the active ingredient in intelligence tests) multiply over time to become large differences?

anybody have any thoughts or evidence they would like to discuss?

False Premise. One need not prove blacks are "as smart" as anyone else. It is assumed within the concept that man is a single entity with different flavors.

Each race has differing characteristics. But over all there is only ONE human RACE.

I'm sure you mean well but changing the definition of a word is not a winning argument. as far as assuming everyone is as smart as everyone else, why do we have to give blacks affirmative action to get them into universities then? why don't they compete like everyone else?

Affirmative action for minorities was created in response to affirmative action enjoyed by whites for many decades and it had nothing to do with the intelligence of minorities. Got anymore shitty fallacies to sell? Of course you do!

 

[manifold]

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew.

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

 

[beowolfe]

doesn't your statement apply to just about everyone in the world? you perhaps?

how does my saying that blacks, on average, have a lower applied average intelligence affect Stevie Wonder's ability to play music? why should it? my statement will apply and make verifiable predictions as to how many blacks will be able to master calculus, or work in engineering, or law, etc

Take a look at what the President use to do for a living lately? The point I'm trying to make is that many African Americans have accomplished a great deal in a wide variety of fields. The numbers are unknown since there are so many. And your racist bullshit doesn't fly here.

By the way, this coming from a white person, SAT prep courses can be fuckin expensive.

personally I believe Obama is clever. and nothing I have ever said precludes some blacks from being very smart or some whites from being very stupid. the LCATs show that blacks go into law school with a large deficit in intelligence and preparation though. that is why so few pass the bar, especially when they have received large AA preference.

I think you are confusing 'intelligence' with information. They are NOT the same. If you use the law school candidates as support for your argument, then your racism is blinding you to the degree that you cannot draw a valid conclusion from your own data. Your post above says that undergraduate schools that blacks attend don't prepare students as well as the schools that whites attend. And that's all. It doesn't say anything about the students. The took and passed the classes they had available. The students don't determine the quality of professor that they find when they attend the school. A whole lot of other factors determine that.

That's the problem when you let race 'color' your thinking.........you miss everything else.

 

[CurveLight]

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew.

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

You accused me of trying to "fool" people and at first I was curious why such an accusation would be stated. Then I looked at the source of the question and realized it doesn't matter what you think.

 

[Ravi]

No banks were forced to lend money. They were simply not allowed to charge higher rates and fees to minorities.

It's really a shame to see racism clouding judgment.

did you take a lenthy trip on the Nation of Islam's giant flying spaceship while the housing bubble was being discussed for months? banks were sadled with quotas for minority loans. hell, Obama himself was listed as one of the lawyers for one court case against a lending institution! if banks wanted to do business they had to commit to a fixed percentage of minority loans.

Thanks for proof positive that you are an idiot.

 

[manifold]

So you drop childish comments, fail to ever support your posts, then are a self proclaimed Judge of Honesty. You fit right with ian, joyce, and crew.

Maybe I should just fake it, like you.

You accused me of trying to "fool" people and at first I was curious why such an accusation would be stated. Then I looked at the source of the question and realized it doesn't matter what you think.

and then some

 

[Ravi]

Ah, jeesh! Who are you fooling...and aren't you a GIRL to boot? Ain't no way you have an IQ higher than a slug.

I dont worry about her intelligence but I do worry about yours. who said blacks can't be smart? or girls? I'm afraid you don't understand averages or 'normal distributions'

You need not worry about Ravi's intelligence. She's not being stupid, she's being dishonest.

What am I being dishonest about?

 

[manifold]

So many things I wouldn't know where to start.

 

[Ravi]

I am not being dishonest about anything.

 

[CurveLight]

I am not being dishonest about anything.

Don't waste more of your time.

 

[Samson]

Well, all that being as it is, I suppose you'll not hhesitate any longer in answering the question if I ask it AGAIN:

How did the Black Students' scholastic achievements at Shaker Heights compare with recent Black Immigrants scholastic achievements?

are you asking me to answer details from a ten year old book? I can't, sorry. I don't have a photographic memory.

if you are asking me if I think there would be a difference in achievement between recent black immigrants and regular black citizens, I would say that the energetic newcomers would definitely outstrip their competition. but that is probably true for white immigrants and asian immigrants as well.

care to share the answer?

I'm not sure I understand: Are you the same Ian that was just lecturing us about reading Ogbu's book on Shaker Heights so we would actually look at reality once in a while instead of just spouting platitudes that at best are only partial truths and at worst outright lies?

Well, it sounded as if you would have the relevent information at your esteemed mental fingertip.

Let's just assume for the sake of arguement that your opinion is correct: Black Immigrants achieve more than "regular black" students.

Why?

You guys are distracting Ian.

Or, he's over at SF trying to formulate a responce worthy of my ol' buddy, Jack Boot (may his poor ignorant ass rot away in his double-wide after he chokes on chicken nuggets eaten off his Elvis TV Tables)