Where is palestine

[Boston1]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

 

[The Great Goose]

Oh stop it! People lived there.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There has never been a country/nation called Palestine

 

[The Great Goose]

There has never been a country/nation called Palestine

There is now.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There has never been a country/nation called Palestine

There is now.

Nope, it does not meet the political definition of a nation or country and never has

 

[Dhara]

Prior to 1948, the term, "Palestinia", referred to Jews who lived in the area. After 1948 the Palestinians started calling themselves Israelis. After 1964, the local Arabs started calling themselves Palestinians.

 

[Dhara]

The region known as the British Mandate of Palestine was originally Ottoman Empire territory, in what was then southern Syria. Basically, it was part of a British plan to not establish colonies but develop and take care of the territories of the shut-down Ottoman Empire. They soon found they had no real interest, and began to back out soon after the First World War. Now we get to the interesting part.
The Mandate of Palestine was maintained by Britain until 1948. In 1946 they started planning to fulfill an earlier promise. Let's go back in time now to 1917. It's the height of the first world war and we look at the Balfour Declaration, which was a formal promise to the Jewish Population of Great Britain that the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine would be established as a national home for the Jewish people. This was in part to raise more soldiers.
Now, this promise is tabled for decades, until after the Second World War and the atrocities of the holocaust, the Jewish people are livid. Jews across Europe are full of hate, fear, strife, and have had enough.
The Balfour Declaration is returned to the light, and Britain responds. In 1946 Britain formally looks into what it would take to admit Jews into Palestine. They decided to immediately admit 100,000 Jewish refugees from Europe, accompanied by 300,000 troops to keep the peace against an Arab revolt.
The Commission stated that "in order to dispose, once and for all, of the exclusive claims of Jews and Arabs to Palestine, we regard it as essential that a clear statement of principle should be made that Jew shall not dominate Arab and Arab shall not dominate Jew in Palestine."
It was decided later, by the united nations, that the territory known as Palestine would be divided more or less in two, among the Arab inhabitants and the Jewish inhabitants, creating two states, one Arab, one Jewish.
Jerusalem was maintained internationally, and was not the jurisdiction of either state. The Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation, accepted the plan, and nearly all the Jews in Palestine rejoiced at the news. At midnight of the 14th of May, 1948, the territory known as the British Mandate of Palestine ended.
And the Arab area, much of it, was invaded by Arabs from Jordan. Over time, the Jewish nation known as Israel has expanded to occupy the entire block, more or less, previously known as Palestine.
Basically, the old Arab nation was in two parts. One on the left, one on the right. The right was invaded by Jordan, later reclaimed by Israel. The left has been shrinking, and now it is only the Gaza strip remaining of the left side of the old Arab nation. A map to help you can be found below:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.svg

 

[skye]

There has never been a country/nation called Palestine

There is now.

Nope, it does not meet the political definition of a nation or country and never has

Exactly right! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


...and people can discuss this until the cows come home....it won't change an iota in this issue.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Palestinians are simply nomadic Arabs who came to the area to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state

 

[Indeependent]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

You obviously need a microscope made in Jordan.

 

[Boston1]

Quote
The Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem (Ottoman Turkish: Kudüs-i Şerif Mutasarrıflığı‎;Arabic: متصرفية القدس الشريف‎), also known as the Sanjak of Jerusalem was anOttoman district with special administrative status established in 1872.[3][4][5]The district encompassed Jerusalem as well as Gaza, Jaffa, Hebron, Bethlehem andBeersheba.[6] During the late Ottoman period, the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, together with the Sanjak of Nablusand Sanjak of Acre, formed the region that was commonly referred to as "Southern Syria"[7]


The district was separated from Damascus and placed directly under Constantinople in 1841,[4] and formally created as an independent province in 1872 by Grand Vizier Mahmud Nedim Pasha.[4] Scholars provide a variety of reasons for the separation, including increased European interest in the region, and strengthening of the southern border of the Empire against the Khedivate of Egypt.[4] Initially, theMutasarrifate of Acre and Mutasarrifate of Nablus were combined with the province of Jerusalem, with the combined province being referred to in the register of the court of Jerusalem as the "Jerusalem Eyalet",[8]

End Quote

Of course people lived there, but apparently the area was not palestine. Nor was it palestine previous to 1918

This map is huge, if you expand it you can clearly see there is no palestine. There's Damascus and Gaza and Acre all listed as provinces of Syria in about 1855

 

[Dhara]

Interesting thread.

 

[Dhara]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

 

[Boston1]

You forgot the war Dhara, The mandate didn't create Israel, the war the Arabs declared against the Judaic returnees did. The mandate didn't actually ratify any states within the area known as palestine AT THAT TIME. Except Trans-Jordan. Israel was not created by either the mandate or the UN. It was a consequence of war.

 

[Penelope]

Palestinians are simply nomadic Arabs who came to the area to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state

I don't see Israel on that map either. I guess so many books and written material, even the Jewish encyclopedia and virtual library will have to be rewrote and Palestine taken out.

 

[Dhara]

I'm the first to admit I find the whole situation confusing and I haven't studied it as well as I should have. Boston. I appreciate your input.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Palestinians are simply nomadic Arabs who came to the area to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state

I don't see Israel on that map either. I guess so many books and written material, even the Jewish encyclopedia and virtual library will have to be rewrote and Palestine taken out.

Israel was a nation as far back as around 700 BC

 

[Shusha]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

When he was born, as now, there was no State of Palestine. He was born in a place that has been labelled many things, and at the time of his birth was labelled the "Mandate for Palestine".

Your post is a political statement. It is the assertion that, at a certain point of history, the "place" of your people existed and was named such (though a few years earlier this was not so and a few years later this was not so), while the place of my people did not exist and was not named Israel (though years earlier it was and years later is was). It is a political statement in that it validates the narrative of one people while simultaneously invalidating the narrative of the other people.

Place names do not give validation to the rights of people to self-determination. Using place names at a specific point in history does not validate the rights of a people for all time.

Your people have rights. As my people have rights. The sooner your side acknowledges this, the sooner we can get on with going back to having two different peoples (and faiths) living together on the same small piece of land (though likely seperately).

 

[turzovka]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up