Where Do Conservative Christians Go From Here?

[Gunny]

Do you think labor laws were at one point necessary in the u.s. to curtail mandatory 16 hour days and child labor? Were they "right" in your view? Or was it socialism to stop children from working in factories?

An interesting question. One that no matter the answer, requires ideological compromise.

We needed labor laws in the US because of unscrupulous and exploitive business owners. I would have NO problem with legislation that required US-owned businesses to adhere to US labor laws regardless what physical location they set up shop in.

Your average pro-capitalism type will call it socialism, but I call it having common sense and some morality. There really should be no need for such laws at all; however, unscupulous people have proven themselves unworthy of such a responsibility.

At the same time, I do not beleive it is up to us to tell other Nations how to run their internal business so long as it does not pose a threat to our security or the security of our allies.

In this forinstance, I am unsure of the exact relationship between the US and a US "territory," what type of local government there is, and how US laws are applicable.

 

[Abbey Normal]

No one is a Christian simply on their own say-so. Only God can determine when someone is a legitimate Christian. Therefore many of the people who claim to be Christian are not really Christian because they are not Christian by God’s standard. When I judge them, I have not judged any Christian, must less all Christians.

In one sentence you judge all Christians. Directly afterwards, you claim to not judge all Christians. If you are going to write so illogically, you'd do better to find a board with less intelligent people.

And then, we have the bolded part above. I would love to know how you can write these two sentences in the same paragraph: "Only God can determine who is a legitimate Christian", and (in your opinion) many people are not Christian by God's standard.

Let me rephrase your total lack of logic:
1. Only God knows His standards for true Christianity.
2. "Flaja" knows that true Christians are very rare.

It makes no sense. Unless... unless...

I've got it. Flaja must be God!

 

[OCA]

An interesting question. One that no matter the answer, requires ideological compromise.

We needed labor laws in the US because of unscrupulous and exploitive business owners. I would have NO problem with legislation that required US-owned businesses to adhere to US labor laws regardless what physical location they set up shop in.

Your average pro-capitalism type will call it socialism, but I call it having common sense and some morality. There really should be no need for such laws at all; however, unscupulous people have proven themselves unworthy of such a responsibility.

At the same time, I do not beleive it is up to us to tell other Nations how to run their internal business so long as it does not pose a threat to our security or the security of our allies.

In this forinstance, I am unsure of the exact relationship between the US and a US "territory," what type of local government there is, and how US laws are applicable.

There really are no need for these laws against extreme labor exploitation anymore because capitalism has matured, its like you have a business and you employ the best, pay the best and treat your workers the best you will be very successful............vice versa the opposites will get you nothing but bankruptcy and failure, all business owners know this nowadays.

Its like if we repealed laws against slavery tommorrow how many people do you think would go right out and get them some slaves to work the farm? Thats right, zero. Its called morality and capitalism has it now.

 

[Gunny]

There really are no need for these laws against extreme labor exploitation anymore because capitalism has matured, its like you have a business and you employ the best, pay the best and treat your workers the best you will be very successful............vice versa the opposites will get you nothing but bankruptcy and failure, all business owners know this nowadays.

Its like if we repealed laws against slavery tommorrow how many people do you think would go right out and get them some slaves to work the farm? Thats right, zero. Its called morality and capitalism has it now.

I'm not sure what you do for a living. I am an electrician and work pretty-much exclusively in the commercial construction side of the business. On a daily basis, I see the quantity over quality practice of hiring people for minimum rather than paying a little more for quality. One of the companies the company I work for does business with hires illegals and works then 10-12 hours a day.

So at least in this particular trade, the morality is not there. I do agree that the practice is self-defeating, and it's frustrating as Hell. They waste more money trying to be tightwads than they would spend just paying a little extra for quality.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Unfortunately, I think many people are only constrained by laws (or more precisely, the fear of being caught violating them). Without the laws, they would revert to all kinds of despicable behavior. Heck, even with the laws, we have capitalists like the Enron lovelies who will sell out their own employees for greed. It's the fallen nature of mankind.

 

[OCA]

I'm not sure what you do for a living. I am an electrician and work pretty-much exclusively in the commercial construction side of the business. On a daily basis, I see the quantity over quality practice of hiring people for minimum rather than paying a little more for quality. One of the companies the company I work for does business with hires illegals and works then 10-12 hours a day.

So at least in this particular trade, the morality is not there. I do agree that the practice is self-defeating, and it's frustrating as Hell. They waste more money trying to be tightwads than they would spend just paying a little extra for quality.

Well it seems this guy or guys don't have a clue on the quality aspect of hiring employees. I'm sure though that they are not paying 8 year olds 10 cents an hour to run wire which is what the laws RWA is referring to address. Those laws are outdated.

 

[Gunny]

Well it seems this guy or guys don't have a clue on the quality aspect of hiring employees. I'm sure though that they are not paying 8 year olds 10 cents an hour to run wire which is what the laws RWA is referring to address. Those laws are outdated.

No, child labor laws don't apply in this case. Spending $100 up front that costs $1000 in the long-run when spending $150 up front would only cost $750 in the long-run applies.

In other words, a lack of business sense and an inability to see things past the next ten minutes.

 

[OCA]

Unfortunately, I think many people are only constrained by laws (or more precisely, the fear of being caught violating them). Without the laws, they would revert to all kinds of despicable behavior. Heck, even with the laws, we have capitalists like the Enron lovelies who will sell out their own employees for greed. It's the fallen nature of mankind.

I can agree with that to a certain extent but those that would abuse would be weeded out quickly in today's society. There are too many choices out there to stick with someone who is abusing you and underpaying you.

 

[OCA]

No, child labor laws don't apply in this case. Spending $100 up front that costs $1000 in the long-run when spending $150 up front would only cost $750 in the long-run applies.

In other words, a lack of business sense and an inability to see things past the next ten minutes.

Ahh the old spending a dime to save a nickel scenario, sort of anyway.

 

[flaja]

Flaja, please stop being an imbecile. Anyone can proclaim faith in christ, and is therefore nominally a christian. Whether or not he's a GOOD christian and is truly heading towards salvation is another matter.

You don’t understand the concept of Christianity at all. Christianity is like pregnancy. You cannot be a little Christian any more than you can be a little pregnant. You either are, or you are not.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If you accept as valid the Christianity of the ungodly, then you have denied the Christianity that is from God and thus cannot be a Christian yourself.

 

[flaja]

In one sentence you judge all Christians. Directly afterwards, you claim to not judge all Christians. If you are going to write so illogically, you'd do better to find a board with less intelligent people.

How can I judge Christians when the people I am judging are not Christians?

 

[no1tovote4]

How can I judge Christians when the people I am judging are not Christians?

How can you know they are not Christians? Is there some sort of secret handshake only you know? Earlier in the thread you proudly proclaimed others to be those "judging", yet still can magically know the mind of God and judge others to "not" be Christians?

Your hypocrite is showing!

 

[Said1]

I've got it. Flaja must be God!

That would be neat.

Flaja isn't a Christian either. Not that I'm judging or anything.

 

[Annie]

That would be neat.

Flaja isn't a Christian either. Not that I'm judging or anything.

I think he's Islamic.

 

[Avatar4321]

And your source for this information is what? Where does the Bible say this?

Its called common sense. If one proclaims belief in Christ as the Messiah, the Savior of the world, the very Son of God and strives to be His disciple, he is by definition a Christian.

The Lord Himself said there would be wheat amongs the tares. and that they would grow together. I see no reason to doubt someone when they say they are a follower of Christ. Its not my place to judge their sincerity. Im willing to take them for their word. something you obviously arent.

 

[Avatar4321]

You don’t understand the concept of Christianity at all. Christianity is like pregnancy. You cannot be a little Christian any more than you can be a little pregnant. You either are, or you are not.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If you accept as valid the Christianity of the ungodly, then you have denied the Christianity that is from God and thus cannot be a Christian yourself.

If you cant be a lukewarm Christian, why did Christ tell John to command the early saints to stop being lukewarm Christians?

The Epistles of the Apostles found in the Bible are clear, many Christians are lukewarm. But thats why Christ calls Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc to help perfect the saints. to bring them closer to Christ and help them grow to be true Christians.

 

[flaja]

Its called common sense.

In your case it’s called any excuse will do if it keeps you from facing the truth. What is and is not godly is up to God. It is not open for human interpretation.

1 Corinthians 1:19-21 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Your “common sense” is foolishness in God’s eyes.

 

[flaja]

If you cant be a lukewarm Christian, why did Christ tell John to command the early saints to stop being lukewarm Christians?

The Epistles of the Apostles found in the Bible are clear, many Christians are lukewarm. But thats why Christ calls Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc to help perfect the saints. to bring them closer to Christ and help them grow to be true Christians.

Are you confusing being lukewarm with being immature in the faith?

1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:2 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

And note that Jesus does not command lukewarm “Christians” to stop being lukewarm. He utterly rejects them: Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[Gunny]

Are you confusing being lukewarm with being immature in the faith?

1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:2 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

And note that Jesus does not command lukewarm “Christians” to stop being lukewarm. He utterly rejects them: Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The problem with the entire premise of your argument is you are presuming to play God. A person's faith is between that person and God, and doesn't have to meet the "Flaja Standard of Approval."

 

[Shogun]

PHARISEE CHRISTIANS



I actually read on this board someone claiming to be a christian saying that god only gave humans two cheaks with which to forgive. I bet jebus only had two cheaks too.


hell, even jim jones, hitler and david koresh identified with christianity..



alas,
some coffee drinkers choose black
while some choose sugar and cream
to us they both have shitty breath
from a similar coffee bean