Where Do Conservative Christians Go From Here?

[flaja]

Yes. Many have accepted the perversion of the new covenant known as dispensationalism. It is a complete rejection of the love of christ, and a return to the unbending law, perverted for worldly power.

What is liberal about dispensationalism?

 

[flaja]

You really arent this dense are you? By stating that most arent true Christians you are judging them. You cant judge them and then say God is the only one who can judge them and be consistant.

If you are not a true Christian, i.e., a Christian by God’s standards, then you are not a Christian, period.

I use the term “true Christian” to designate people who follow God, as opposed to people who claim to be Christian when they follow their own man-made doctrines.

I reiterate that no one is a Christian simply because he calls himself a Christian or professes that he follows Christ. And no one is a Christian simply the world chooses to designate him as such. People who carry the label Christian are not always right with God.

Revelation 1:20 to 3:22:
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the
second death. And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Hobbit]

You're also claiming to know what, specifically, a true Christian is. How do you know you're not completely wrong and that a lot of these people who are somehow fake Christians really are Christians, but because they don't follow your man-made interpretation of what a 'true' Christian is, you judge them to be hypocritical a**holes. Tapdancing won't make you any less of a jackass. It will only make you a jackass who can tapdance.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, a person is a Christian just by identifying themself as one. They just arent necessarily a good Christian. But then the Lord said the wheat and the tares would grow together till the sifting at the last day. If there werent good and bad Christians there would be no need to say such.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What is liberal about dispensationalism?

I didn't say it was liberal. I said it was a perversion of christ's new covenant with man.

 

[flaja]

Actually, a person is a Christian just by identifying themself as one.

And your source for this information is what? Where does the Bible say this?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And your source for this information is what? Where does the Bible say this?

Flaja, please stop being an imbecile. Anyone can proclaim faith in christ, and is therefore nominally a christian. Whether or not he's a GOOD christian and is truly heading towards salvation is another matter.

 

[Gunny]

Don't be so certain you can speak for Jesus.

As for his approval, I think he would find the slave labor conditions in the Northern Marianas Islands, a US territory, repugnant. These havens for US garment makers allow them to put "Made in the USA" labels on their garments, while the workers live in what amount to little more than labor camps. Attempts to reform these labor practices were blocked by none other than conservative darling, Tom DeLay, who to this day mouths the words of Christ, and soiling them with his hypocrisy every time he utters them.

As I said, more akin to Romans cheering the lions than the followers of Christ.

I'm not going to defend the practice of slave labor, because quite simply, it's wrong, IMO. However, have YOU ever been to some of those Southeast Asian islands/Nations? Employment opportunities are virtually nonexistent. Gernally, one can sell trinkets to tourists, sell their ass to tourists, sell drugs to tourists, sell knock-off clothing and cologne to tourists, drive tourists around in taxis, or one can sleep on the street and starve.

So, maybe it isn't right, but it's STILL more opportunity than they'd have otherwise.

 

[Gunny]

A teacher? :shocked:

He claims he teaches at a private school in FL.

 

[Gunny]

If you are not a true Christian, i.e., a Christian by God’s standards, then you are not a Christian, period.

I use the term “true Christian” to designate people who follow God, as opposed to people who claim to be Christian when they follow their own man-made doctrines.

I reiterate that no one is a Christian simply because he calls himself a Christian or professes that he follows Christ. And no one is a Christian simply the world chooses to designate him as such. People who carry the label Christian are not always right with God.

Revelation 1:20 to 3:22:
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the
second death. And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Those who are "not right with God" will be dealt with by God. It STILL is not for you to judge.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm not going to defend the practice of slave labor, because quite simply, it's wrong, IMO. However, have YOU ever been to some of those Southeast Asian islands/Nations? Employment opportunities are virtually nonexistent. Gernally, one can sell trinkets to tourists, sell their ass to tourists, sell drugs to tourists, sell knock-off clothing and cologne to tourists, drive tourists around in taxis, or one can sleep on the street and starve.

So, maybe it isn't right, but it's STILL more opportunity than they'd have otherwise.

Yes. The opportunity of slavery. Do you believe this? You're stretching here gunny, and god is watching you.

 

[Annie]

Yes. The opportunity of slavery. Do you believe this? You're stretching here gunny, and god is watching you.

Seems we should also be worried about the slave labor in Italy and elsewhere in Europe. What about the Eastern Europeans being pulled into the Western States and being exploited?

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/16015926.htm

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Seems we should also be worried about the slave labor in Italy and elsewhere in Europe. What about the Eastern Europeans being pulled into the Western States and being exploited?

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/16015926.htm

Of course. And we also shouldn't ignore it where it's under our own government.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You've heard that one, right?

I wonder what our government did to decimate local economies and agriculture, and corrupt the local leadership to make international corporate slavery the only alternative. Nothing? I doubt it.

 

[Annie]

Of course. And we also shouldn't ignore it where it's under our own government.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You've heard that one, right?

I wonder what our government did to decimate local economies and agriculture, and corrupt the local leadership to make international corporate slavery the only alternative. Nothing? I doubt it.

Oh, now it's all the US fault? Next you'll be advocating for the UN?

 

[dilloduck]

I wonder what our government did-----

How about "factions with close ties" to our government ?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Oh, now it's all the US fault? Next you'll be advocating for the UN?

No. I'm fully against the U.N. It's a corrupt body. Just like the WTO and World Bank. ANd before you start, this doesn't make me a socialist. The drive for a one world economic system is destructive, totalitarian and evil. Corporations taking over governments is just as wrong as governments taking over coporations. Both lead to monopolistic tyranny.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

How about "factions with close ties" to our government ?

Yes. And sometimes our goverment policies are nakedly designed to facilitate the rising global fascism.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes. And sometimes our goverment policies are nakedly designed to facilitate the rising global fascism.

The electorate has been so dumbed down by liberal education that they don't even know they ARE the government. If they did they wouldn't be so quick to place blame on this "government" boogy man.

 

[Gunny]

Yes. The opportunity of slavery. Do you believe this? You're stretching here gunny, and god is watching you.

I'm not stretching at all. I'm putting myself in the poistion of needing a place to live and food to eat and having neither .... a place I have been at one point in my life. Working two jobs paid for food, clothing and shelter. Whining about the fact I was working like a dog for minimum wage 12 hours a day accomplished NOTHING.

I didn't say it was right, nor have I defended it, and I do my best to not support it. But that doesn't change the reality that big business is there exploiting the labor and lack of labor laws because they can, and those Southeast Asians/Pacific Ilsanders are going to take what they can get.

You aren't suggest we set up some sort of social world order with universal labor laws, are you?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm not stretching at all. I'm putting myself in the poistion of needing a place to live and food to eat and having neither .... a place I have been at one point in my life. Working two jobs paid for food, clothing and shelter. Whining about the fact I was working like a dog for minimum wage 12 hours a day accomplished NOTHING.

I didn't say it was right, nor have I defended it, and I do my best to not support it. But that doesn't change the reality that big business is there exploiting the labor and lack of labor laws because they can, and those Southeast Asians/Pacific Ilsanders are going to take what they can get.

You aren't suggest we set up some sort of social world order with universal labor laws, are you?

Do you think labor laws were at one point necessary in the u.s. to curtail mandatory 16 hour days and child labor? Were they "right" in your view? Or was it socialism to stop children from working in factories?