Where are the Adults?

[Tom Paine 1949]

It's being done on purpose....Erasing the past gives you no frame of reference for the present.

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Democratic Socialist, “premature anti-fascist” who almost died fighting Franco and Nazis in the Spanish Civil War, hated the Conservative Tories, supported the Labour Party.

What in the name of Sam Hill does that have to do with what's going on with the vandalization of Murican history?

YOU were the one who brought up George Orwell and misapplied his polemic against Stalinism! Typical of you and many others here. While Orwell wrote little about American race relations and to my knowledge nothing about Civil War memorials, your demagogic partisanship here on USMB represents precisely everything he hated in real life. I just showed where the deep roots of Orwell’s intellectual honesty led him in real life. You don’t appreciate that a “democratic socialist” like Orwell became the great symbol and expositor of truth telling on historical matters.

Were Orwell alive today I am confident he would have contempt for your views on this question, while also denouncing the excesses and stupidities of those on the other side who show no understanding or even political savvy in addressing these questions. Orwell was a dedicated enemy of “nationalism” and bigoted partisan thinking in all forms.

His argument about “erasing the past,” would most certainly not apply to the long process of re-evaluating the past that has resulted in the gradual removal of Confederate Flags from public Courthouses and State Capitols, schools and military bases all across the South ... a result of the Civil Rights revolution of the 1960s. Like the removal of statues to Confederate heroes, this has mostly been a slow deliberative and democratic process carried out by local communities and elected representatives. The old Jim Crow memorials to the leaders of a war fought to defend human slavery and its whole way of life are better placed in museums or cemeteries or on battlefields than in our public squares.

That is where the adults are.

 

[dudmuck]

Any intelligent human who gives the matter more than a moment's thought realizes that you cannot judge historical figures by today's contemporary standards. While some principles are immutable (See the Ten Commandments, for examples), others are tied to the era in which they play out. Our forebears had multiple wives, they owned slaves, and they committed atrocities in order to save the souls of "savages." It all happened and was done by people who were more than admirable in their respective times. And even to presume that today's standards are The Ultimate, and utterly correct, and will never change is a conceit that only a fool can maintain. A hundred years from now, we may all be scorned because we ate fish, or broccoli. Who knows?

Essentially every public monument or statue is a tribute to someone who was a "hero" or an otherwise exemplary person IN HIS OR HER OWN TIME, and usually for many generations thereafter. To tear down these monuments is a historical atrocity and a crime against our own humanity.

If you have studied and learned about the life of, for example, Robert E. Lee, and you believe that he was an evil person, then SAY THAT. Take your children to his monument and tell them who he was and what you think. That's why we study history: so we can learn from it. Same for Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, Moses, and - if you please - Martin Luther King...though no living American would ever have the balls to point out that Luminary's shortcomings!

It is a tremendous failure of leadership for mayors and governors, and even the President, to stand by and watch these desecrations take place without demanding that they stop, and proclaiming WHY THEY ARE UNACCEPTABLE. Not only as destructions of public property, but as absolute foolishness, intellectually.

Where are the adults?

Lee himself was opposed to having confederate monuments. Put these statues in a museum along side the atrocities of slavery. We should take a page from how Germany treats Nazism.

 

[Oddball]

Any intelligent human who gives the matter more than a moment's thought realizes that you cannot judge historical figures by today's contemporary standards. While some principles are immutable (See the Ten Commandments, for examples), others are tied to the era in which they play out. Our forebears had multiple wives, they owned slaves, and they committed atrocities in order to save the souls of "savages." It all happened and was done by people who were more than admirable in their respective times. And even to presume that today's standards are The Ultimate, and utterly correct, and will never change is a conceit that only a fool can maintain. A hundred years from now, we may all be scorned because we ate fish, or broccoli. Who knows?

Essentially every public monument or statue is a tribute to someone who was a "hero" or an otherwise exemplary person IN HIS OR HER OWN TIME, and usually for many generations thereafter. To tear down these monuments is a historical atrocity and a crime against our own humanity.

If you have studied and learned about the life of, for example, Robert E. Lee, and you believe that he was an evil person, then SAY THAT. Take your children to his monument and tell them who he was and what you think. That's why we study history: so we can learn from it. Same for Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, Moses, and - if you please - Martin Luther King...though no living American would ever have the balls to point out that Luminary's shortcomings!

It is a tremendous failure of leadership for mayors and governors, and even the President, to stand by and watch these desecrations take place without demanding that they stop, and proclaiming WHY THEY ARE UNACCEPTABLE. Not only as destructions of public property, but as absolute foolishness, intellectually.

Where are the adults?

Lee himself was opposed to having confederate monuments. Put these statues in a museum along side the atrocities of slavery. We should take a page from how Germany treats Nazism.

The declaration of Confederate troops as U.S. veterans and the allowing for the southern states to commemorate their side in the conflict are in the terms of of the surrender and reunification, asswipe.

It's just like a commie jackass like you to be good with reneging on the terms of an agreement.

 

[Pete7469]

It's way past Trump....The progs want to invalidate the entirety of the American experience, for better or worse...And in order to wipe out the best, they have to frame it as being built on a foundation of the absolute worst.

We are witnessing pure, unadulterated Maoist/Stalinist communism being practiced right before our very eyes, while one wing of the political class actively abets it and the other stands by in total silence....And they've flooded the zone with shitstorms to the point that Trump doesn't know whether to fuck, fight, shit, or go blind.

I have a feeling that shit's going to come to a head sooner rather than later, and it may well make the last couple weeks look like a game of jacks.

You have a point, Trump is more of a symbol of what they hate, even though he has talked about giving them universal HC, has spent almost as much as Queen Antifa already, and has pulled us back from a hawkish foreign policy. He has more democrooks working in his economic agenda initiatives than their meat puppet faggot had anyone who wasn't a globalist sociopath "Yes Man" working in his entire administration.

Then they piss and moan about "chaos" because there are people with a lot of differences of opinion in the WH.

As far as what it may take to bring the problems to a head, I'm hoping we get a couple land slide victories in the next 2 elections, and the democrook party is broken up into the pure commie psychopaths in the CPUSA, the Green Party retards, and the democrook establishment, they can attract the RINOs and make the GOP strong enough to maintain a better capacity to adhere to the Constitution like they pretend to now. Once the power of the government is capped, the globalists won't be able to purchase the influence they do now and if we are lucky a shit ton of these sniveling bed wetters will just leave the country out of frustration.

They would be much happier becoming euroweenies again anyway.

I can dream can't I? Alas it may come down to blowing commissars out the front door of our houses before it's all said and done.

.

 

[Markle]

What kind of leader is afraid of how his words will be taken?

Certainly not Slow Joe. He doesn't remember what he said minutes before when it is written down in front of him!

 

[Pete7469]

What kind of leader is afraid of how his words will be taken?

Certainly not Slow Joe. He doesn't remember what he said minutes before when it is written down in front of him!

That and I'm sure the leftist cretins that have their hand up his ass to make him say the dumb shit he says are in colusion with the media anyway, therefore no matter what he says, the level of scrutiny would not be anywhere near equal. It would be like the media retracting one of thousands of complete bullshit stories they publish every year on the front page rather than imbedded in a back page ad.

It ain't gonna happen. Leftists never hold each other accountable.


.

 

[dudmuck]

Any intelligent human who gives the matter more than a moment's thought realizes that you cannot judge historical figures by today's contemporary standards. While some principles are immutable (See the Ten Commandments, for examples), others are tied to the era in which they play out. Our forebears had multiple wives, they owned slaves, and they committed atrocities in order to save the souls of "savages." It all happened and was done by people who were more than admirable in their respective times. And even to presume that today's standards are The Ultimate, and utterly correct, and will never change is a conceit that only a fool can maintain. A hundred years from now, we may all be scorned because we ate fish, or broccoli. Who knows?

Essentially every public monument or statue is a tribute to someone who was a "hero" or an otherwise exemplary person IN HIS OR HER OWN TIME, and usually for many generations thereafter. To tear down these monuments is a historical atrocity and a crime against our own humanity.

If you have studied and learned about the life of, for example, Robert E. Lee, and you believe that he was an evil person, then SAY THAT. Take your children to his monument and tell them who he was and what you think. That's why we study history: so we can learn from it. Same for Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, Moses, and - if you please - Martin Luther King...though no living American would ever have the balls to point out that Luminary's shortcomings!

It is a tremendous failure of leadership for mayors and governors, and even the President, to stand by and watch these desecrations take place without demanding that they stop, and proclaiming WHY THEY ARE UNACCEPTABLE. Not only as destructions of public property, but as absolute foolishness, intellectually.

Where are the adults?

Lee himself was opposed to having confederate monuments. Put these statues in a museum along side the atrocities of slavery. We should take a page from how Germany treats Nazism.

The declaration of Confederate troops as U.S. veterans and the allowing for the southern states to commemorate their side in the conflict are in the terms of of the surrender and reunification, asswipe.

It's just like a commie jackass like you to be good with reneging on the terms of an agreement.

that myth was busted five years ago

Busting the myth that Congress made Confederate vets into U.S. vets | Facing South

Since a white supremacist who waved the Confederate flag gunned down nine African Americans in a Charleston church last month, battles have raged across the South over the future of Confederate monuments. Some Confederate apologists are claiming that a 1958 law gives Confederate veterans, and...

www.facingsouth.org