When you cross the border illegally.......

[Sweet Willy]

Going door to door and rooting them out cost a fortune and it's just not worth it.

And how many decades – centuries, perhaps – to adjudicate all the deportation cases. Not only is it not worth it, it’s impossible.

Do you always answer a question with a question?

That or an insult.

It can't be done in a civilized, orderly and lawful manner. Even our debate foe here acknowledges that we could never do anything like operation WB again. Heck they couldn't keep doing it then because the public wouldn't stand for it. They cleared wholesale neighborhoods and deported a few thousand American citizens along with everyone else. It was, just like I tried to describe earlier, akin to what the Germans did in WWII. It takes a massive suspension of human rights and the constitution to do anything near what they did and STILL they only managed to actually apprehend 80,000 or so people. The rest were compelled to self deport, the only thing then and the only thing now that can even begin to address this issue. Operation WB maybe caused a million illegals to disappear. In the last three years we have deported a million and a million walked home. We have beaten that program all to pieces and still that is the example you want to give? If those numbers make you happy, you should be throwing a party about now for our efforts in the last couple years.

I have explained this as articulately as possible and the only retorts are gross over simplifications of the issue. You simply can not round up millions of people by force, effectively, economically or humanely. Operation WB proves this to be true.

Same goes for the "secure the border" pleas. You can't effectively do it. If we could, we WOULD HAVE. This isn't the first time we've had this problem down there. We've had it every few decades for a long time. If we COULD secure the border, we would have. It can't be done in a practical sense. The Korean DMZ is only 160 miles long.... the Berlin Wall was only 90 miles long. The COST to TRY and totally secure these two EXTREMELY short borders is astronomical. We have 2,000 miles of border and compounding the issue is the extreme remoteness of the terrain. Just trying to get WATER .... WATER PEOPLE.... trying to just get some water out there is a choir. And we expect to do what? Station people and machines and feed them and fuel them and cloth them and shower them and truck them in and out? It's absurd. You're talking about a military deployment on scale with Iraq. And for what? Because we don't want to or are afraid to mess with a handful of manufacturing plant and meat packing plant owners who stand behind our Patrols and invite these people to come. We're going to spend all this money BEFORE we even make a half witted effort to police OUR OWN who are causing this problem?

It's a ridiculous game. Someone is playing politics with some folks heads but it sure isn't me.

 

[Unkotare]

Political agenda? What political agenda?

You can't deport 12 million people without sever economic and humanitarian repercussions. It's not going to happen. There is nothing political about it, it's just cold hard numbers. You can do like Operation wet back or like the Germans in WWII and round up tens of thousands at a time and at great expense. But 50,000, 80,000 ... these are small numbers of people when you are faced with 12 million. Heck, we deport 350,000 a year NOW.

You ARE NOT facing reality. You are wishing and grasping at straws.

And you wonder why I ask if you read what I wrote?

 

[Unkotare]

The Border | 1953 Operation Wetback

OPERATION WETBACK | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com


While I certainly don't advocate a repeat of that program, for obvious reasons, it does go to show that a serious effort at immigration control nets more reduction in illegal immigration than just the number of individuals actually deported personally. A serious effort at enforcement (including the feds not obstructing states efforts at addressing the problem) with border enforcement and severe penalties for anyone hiring, housing, or harboring illegals would result in highly significant rates of self deportation. Just crying "12 million! 12 million! you can't! you can't!" is so obviously going to change nothing that it reveals essentially an open-border position by those who would engage in such defeatism. Apologists for illegal immigration willfully ignore the fact that they are complicit in the exploitation of vulnerable people, the violation of US sovereignty, the weakening of the labor market FOR ALL, perpetuation of crimes such as drug and human trafficking, environmental degredation, and a defacto punishment of LEGAL immigrants who are and have always been of great value to our nation. But people like you don't care about any of that when you've got your political agenda to shill for.

Dude.... that was 80,000 people they managed to round up and deport. Even at 10 x that rate that's only 800,000 people. I am VERY familiar with operation WT. An effort like that wouldn't touch the problem we have today.

(Not to mention that a half million people left on their own during operation WB, out of "fear of deportation". We deport four times as many people every year now as they did in Operation WB and guess what? It doesn't "scare" the others into leaving.)

You don't understand 'numbers' very well, do you?

 

[Unkotare]

Lets recap what you said.
1) More workers is bad for an economy
2) Its okay to be lazy and to not improve yourself because ruining other peoples lives can make up for your shortcomings
3) My agenda which is to not spending hundreds of billions of dollars ruining millions of peoples lives is immoral.

NO, I didn't say any of that, you lying fuck. Anyone who can read can see that you are now beyond even trying to reasonably support your indefensible position. You've got nothing left but outright lies and fabrications.

I advise that if you are going to say stupid and absurd things to not cry when someone points out that you said them

You "advise" nothing. You very clearly and directly lied, you spineless sack of shit. You can't hide from or deny that you directly and blatantly lied. That's what you did and that's what you are.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Political agenda? What political agenda?

You can't deport 12 million people without sever economic and humanitarian repercussions. It's not going to happen. There is nothing political about it, it's just cold hard numbers. You can do like Operation wet back or like the Germans in WWII and round up tens of thousands at a time and at great expense. But 50,000, 80,000 ... these are small numbers of people when you are faced with 12 million. Heck, we deport 350,000 a year NOW.

You ARE NOT facing reality. You are wishing and grasping at straws.

And you wonder why I ask if you read what I wrote?

I read what you've written. It doesn't really say much. You say that efforts should amount to an ongoing effort, "like law enforcement". Are you saying that you don't believe that to already be the case? Are you not aware that we have nearly 20,000 agents on the border? Almost ten agents for every mile of border?

When you referenced the WB program carried out by Eisenhower, what was that supposed to suggest? It was the same thing I already spoke to in this thread, a door to door gestapo effort that couldn't be sustained. It was a gross violation of human rights and the constitution in addition to the fact that it didn't come anywhere close to forcefully deporting any sort of real number of people when compared to 12 million plus illegals.

I don't know what it is you want to say or prove or even debate.... you just seem to be here simply to argue, insult and be a contrarian. Is there something else? Do you have anything concrete or constructive to add?

 

[Unkotare]

In other words, you read what I wrote but you chose to ignore it so you can repeat your talking points over and over again as if you hadn't actually read it. It is very clear what that says about your position.

 

[starcraftzzz]

NO, I didn't say any of that, you lying fuck. Anyone who can read can see that you are now beyond even trying to reasonably support your indefensible position. You've got nothing left but outright lies and fabrications.

I advise that if you are going to say stupid and absurd things to not cry when someone points out that you said them

You "advise" nothing. You very clearly and directly lied, you spineless sack of shit. You can't hide from or deny that you directly and blatantly lied. That's what you did and that's what you are.

Why are you crying so much? Is it because you are so lazy and unproductive that you cant get a job?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Well yes, yes really. Entering and/or staying in the country illegally is - - - wait for it - - - ILLEGAL. Apologists and enablers like you may want to dismiss or diminish it by making some specious comparison to speeding, but most AMERICANS realize the harm illegal immigration does to the country is not something to be downplayed and forgotten.

Crossing the border is a MISDEMEANOR. I compare it to other misdemeanors because they are classed together as being regarded as violations of relative seriousness. That's why we class them together. I didn't do it. Someone else did. I recognize this. Perhaps you do not. I suggest you lobby someone to try and make illegal crossing a more serious offense. For now, it's in the same class as reckless speeding.

As far as down played or forgotten, I fail to see how my lengthy and well considered post down play or forget anything. In fact, I have articulated more on the subject than anyone else. Perhaps I can ease your concern though: "Dang Mexicuns... dey dun taked my jerb!" Better?

We are way past that stage. Flimsy arguments like "you can't deport them all - you just can't!" are a transparent cover for what amounts to an open-borders position. Really control the borders and make it painful to stay here and more than enough illegals will go home to turn the tide and discourage others. It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement is, but saying "you can't stop em!" is in fact an excuse for an open-borders position.

I have not and do not advocate an open border. I do KNOW what the border is like and how long it is and the kind of terrain it passes through and regardless of what I advocate, the over whelming majority of the border IS OPEN. There is little to be done about it unless you have the ability to crap golden eggs and make water appear in the middle of the desert and make roads and bridges, etc. build themselves in the same said desert.

In other words, you read what I wrote but you chose to ignore it so you can repeat your talking points over and over again as if you hadn't actually read it. It is very clear what that says about your position.

I read what you wrote and it didn't make much sense. I don't see much logic there. I don't advocate "open borders". I know that

"It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement "

is an indicator of some sort of mental block; we do have exactly that, "an ongoing effort, like law enforcement" already. I am still wondering where you get the idea that we don't have an on going effort "like law enforcement".

Dude, you are just blathering on about nothing in particular, best I can tell, arguing to be arguing, looking for opportunities to use profane language and name calling. I don't see any real depth to your responses. Just argument for argument sake.

 

[Unkotare]

I advise that if you are going to say stupid and absurd things to not cry when someone points out that you said them

You "advise" nothing. You very clearly and directly lied, you spineless sack of shit. You can't hide from or deny that you directly and blatantly lied. That's what you did and that's what you are.

Why are you crying so much? Is it because you are so lazy and unproductive that you cant get a job?

Why do you feel the need for dishonesty? Are you that unsure of your own position?

 

[Unkotare]

Crossing the border is a MISDEMEANOR. I compare it to other misdemeanors because they are classed together as being regarded as violations of relative seriousness. That's why we class them together. I didn't do it. Someone else did. I recognize this. Perhaps you do not. I suggest you lobby someone to try and make illegal crossing a more serious offense. For now, it's in the same class as reckless speeding. .

AGAIN you seem to have failed to read what I wrote, or chose to ignore it so you could repeat your talking points.

 

[Unkotare]

I have not and do not advocate an open border. I do KNOW what the border is like and how long it is and the kind of terrain it passes through and regardless of what I advocate, the over whelming majority of the border IS OPEN. There is little to be done about it unless you have the ability to crap golden eggs and make water appear in the middle of the desert and make roads and bridges, etc. build themselves in the same said desert.

Again, you fail to read what I wrote. I said that your position amounts to an open border advocacy because at the end of the day that is what your attitude will result in as a matter of fact, with all the resulting problems for everyone involved.

 

[Unkotare]

I read what you wrote and it didn't make much sense. I don't see much logic there. .

Now you admit to ignoring what I wrote because it doesn't support your position (yes, that's what "didn't make much sense" really means). Don't complain when I point out the fact that you are ignoring my comments in order to repeat your talking points when you have now essentially admitted to doing so.

 

[Unkotare]

Dude, you are just blathering on about nothing in particular, .

= you don't like what I have to say (what millions of US CITIZENS have to say) and are just going to repeat your talking points ad nauseaum.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Crossing the border is a MISDEMEANOR. I compare it to other misdemeanors because they are classed together as being regarded as violations of relative seriousness. That's why we class them together. I didn't do it. Someone else did. I recognize this. Perhaps you do not. I suggest you lobby someone to try and make illegal crossing a more serious offense. For now, it's in the same class as reckless speeding. .

AGAIN you seem to have failed to read what I wrote, or chose to ignore it so you could repeat your talking points.

I read exactly what you wrote. You seem to ignore the response.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I have not and do not advocate an open border. I do KNOW what the border is like and how long it is and the kind of terrain it passes through and regardless of what I advocate, the over whelming majority of the border IS OPEN. There is little to be done about it unless you have the ability to crap golden eggs and make water appear in the middle of the desert and make roads and bridges, etc. build themselves in the same said desert.

Again, you fail to read what I wrote. I said that your position amounts to an open border advocacy because at the end of the day that is what your attitude will result in as a matter of fact, with all the resulting problems for everyone involved.

Again, you seem to ignore my response. I do not and have not advocated or supported and open border policy. Most of the border is "open", meaning not fenced or heavily guarded. It's just a fact, whether you want to accept it or not.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I read what you wrote and it didn't make much sense. I don't see much logic there. .

Now you admit to ignoring what I wrote because it doesn't support your position (yes, that's what "didn't make much sense" really means). Don't complain when I point out the fact that you are ignoring my comments in order to repeat your talking points when you have now essentially admitted to doing so.

Your comments do not make sense. When you say "it will be an on going effort, like law enforcement..." that doesn't make sense. There is no "will be" about it. We already have that, in fact, it's a larger law enforcement presence than ever down there. It appears you don't know the situation on the ground down there.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Dude, you are just blathering on about nothing in particular, .

= you don't like what I have to say (what millions of US CITIZENS have to say) and are just going to repeat your talking points ad nauseaum.

You have said little of consequence, it's not so much a matter of liking or disliking, it's a matter of if you even understand what and where the border is.

 

[Unkotare]

Crossing the border is a MISDEMEANOR. I compare it to other misdemeanors because they are classed together as being regarded as violations of relative seriousness. That's why we class them together. I didn't do it. Someone else did. I recognize this. Perhaps you do not. I suggest you lobby someone to try and make illegal crossing a more serious offense. For now, it's in the same class as reckless speeding. .

AGAIN you seem to have failed to read what I wrote, or chose to ignore it so you could repeat your talking points.

I read exactly what you wrote. You seem to ignore the response.

You are clearly interested in nothing but repeating your talking points. STFU then.

 

[Unkotare]

Dude, you are just blathering on about nothing in particular, .

= you don't like what I have to say (what millions of US CITIZENS have to say) and are just going to repeat your talking points ad nauseaum.

You have said little of consequence, it's not so much a matter of liking or disliking, it's a matter of if you even understand what and where the border is.

Why not just stick your fingers in your ears and shout "nananananananna!!!!"? It amounts the the same thing you're doing here.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Sorry if I offended you in some way, there just isn't any substance to your responses. If there was something there to work with I'd continue with the conversation.