When you cross the border illegally.......

[Sweet Willy]

Star... you are barking up the wrong tree. My entire point is to NOT spend anymore money on the issue. Period. We can get the illegals out without spending anymore money than we already do.

Your claims about them being a net positive, economically, are as extreme and full of holes as the other extremes who say they cost us some huge amount of money. Neither extreme is true, the truth is in the middle, as always. They cost us an amount of money and a social cost through lower wages in our labor market.

At any rate, you aren't making any more of a realistic argument than the people who want to unleash the military on the illegals and evidently, you can't identify who may be an asset to your cause to at least keep the illegals from being brutalized.

 

[Unkotare]

These 'open border' idiots always seem to overlook the fact that 100% of illegal aliens have by definition violated the laws of the US.

Well no, not really. I mean, I don't see any open border advocates speaking here, first. And second, over looking the violations of of illegal immigrants is much like over looking the violations of speeders who don't get caught. .

Well yes, yes really. Entering and/or staying in the country illegally is - - - wait for it - - - ILLEGAL. Apologists and enablers like you may want to dismiss or diminish it by making some specious comparison to speeding, but most AMERICANS realize the harm illegal immigration does to the country is not something to be downplayed and forgotten. We are way past that stage. Flimsy arguments like "you can't deport them all - you just can't!" are a transparent cover for what amounts to an open-borders position. Really control the borders and make it painful to stay here and more than enough illegals will go home to turn the tide and discourage others. It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement is, but saying "you can't stop em!" is in fact an excuse for an open-borders position.

 

[Sweet Willy]

These 'open border' idiots always seem to overlook the fact that 100% of illegal aliens have by definition violated the laws of the US.

Well no, not really. I mean, I don't see any open border advocates speaking here, first. And second, over looking the violations of of illegal immigrants is much like over looking the violations of speeders who don't get caught. .

Well yes, yes really. Entering and/or staying in the country illegally is - - - wait for it - - - ILLEGAL. Apologists and enablers like you may want to dismiss or diminish it by making some specious comparison to speeding, but most AMERICANS realize the harm illegal immigration does to the country is not something to be downplayed and forgotten. We are way past that stage. Flimsy arguments like "you can't deport them all - you just can't!" are a transparent cover for what amounts to an open-borders position. Really control the borders and make it painful to stay here and more than enough illegals will go home to turn the tide and discourage others. It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement is, but saying "you can't stop em!" is in fact an excuse for an open-borders position.

No, it is just reality my friend. You can't deport 12 million people. Not going to happen. You can't secure 2,000 miles of border in the desert. Not going to happen.

There is no open border argument. You are as extreme as the girl that actually is making an open border argument.

The sure way to know I'm in the middle, representing reason and moderate thought is the fact that both sides are shooting at me.

 

[Unkotare]

I pity that you feel so entitled that you don't want to compete with other workers perhaps if you want a better job you should get an education, or work harder instead of scapegoating others. Only a terrible person such as yourself would want to ruin other peoples lives just because you refuse to work or better yourself.

Another false argument by the anti-American apologist for criminal behavior. Distorting the labor market harms ALL workers. This "you don't want to work hard" BS is an excuse - whether you have the brain cells to realize it or not - for enabling the exploitation of illegal workers and the weakening of the national economy for all. Talk about "ruining peoples lives..." You are a hypocrite and you can't see it because you are only focused on your illegal, immoral agenda.

 

[Unkotare]

Well no, not really. I mean, I don't see any open border advocates speaking here, first. And second, over looking the violations of of illegal immigrants is much like over looking the violations of speeders who don't get caught. .

Well yes, yes really. Entering and/or staying in the country illegally is - - - wait for it - - - ILLEGAL. Apologists and enablers like you may want to dismiss or diminish it by making some specious comparison to speeding, but most AMERICANS realize the harm illegal immigration does to the country is not something to be downplayed and forgotten. We are way past that stage. Flimsy arguments like "you can't deport them all - you just can't!" are a transparent cover for what amounts to an open-borders position. Really control the borders and make it painful to stay here and more than enough illegals will go home to turn the tide and discourage others. It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement is, but saying "you can't stop em!" is in fact an excuse for an open-borders position.

No, it is just reality my friend. You can't deport 12 million people. Not going to happen. You can't secure 2,000 miles of border in the desert. Not going to happen.

Did you even read what I wrote, shitforbrains?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Well yes, yes really. Entering and/or staying in the country illegally is - - - wait for it - - - ILLEGAL. Apologists and enablers like you may want to dismiss or diminish it by making some specious comparison to speeding, but most AMERICANS realize the harm illegal immigration does to the country is not something to be downplayed and forgotten. We are way past that stage. Flimsy arguments like "you can't deport them all - you just can't!" are a transparent cover for what amounts to an open-borders position. Really control the borders and make it painful to stay here and more than enough illegals will go home to turn the tide and discourage others. It will be an on-going effort like all law enforcement is, but saying "you can't stop em!" is in fact an excuse for an open-borders position.

No, it is just reality my friend. You can't deport 12 million people. Not going to happen. You can't secure 2,000 miles of border in the desert. Not going to happen.

Did you even read what I wrote, shitforbrains?

I apologize if I said something offensive. I am unsure why insults are needed.

Anyone can write it or read it. It is another thing to DO IT. We deported about 350,000 people last year, a lot of them caught near the boarder. At any rate, you do understand that is the most people we have ever deported? That is a record? We spent more money than ever to do that. At that rate, it would take 36 years to deport all the illegals here AND we would have to stop anymore from coming. It's not going to happen. You aren't facing reality.

Give me an outline of a plan and a budget for what you propose, and a timeline. This vague talk is cheap. What are you going to do and how are you going to pay for it?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I am unsure why insults are needed.

For conservatives, insults are needed as their facts are nonexistent.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I am unsure why insults are needed.

For conservatives, insults are needed as their facts are nonexistent.

Well, I think it's probably more of the general tone here than anything.

No one is willing to do much more than cry to the government to fix their problems for them when it comes to this issue. And spend tons of money to do it. And anyone taking a casual look at any former attempts to round up millions of people and move them should see that it is doomed to failure. Ronald Reagan didn't want to give those 5 million illegals amnesty HE HAD LITTLE CHOICE. Going door to door and rooting them out cost a fortune and it's just not worth it. It's also noteworthy that Reagan's supposed follow up to amnesty was strict enforcement of people hiring illegals, not this "secure the border" crap. It can't be done. If you don't stop the employers from hiring, it would take a perpetual military, gestapo style effort to get them out as fast as they come. An Iraq / Afghanistan war budget every year FOREVER.

It can't be done. Not and survive as a nation.

 

[Unkotare]

No, it is just reality my friend. You can't deport 12 million people. Not going to happen. You can't secure 2,000 miles of border in the desert. Not going to happen.

Did you even read what I wrote, shitforbrains?

I apologize if I said something offensive. I am unsure why insults are needed.

Anyone can write it or read it. It is another thing to DO IT. We deported about 350,000 people last year, a lot of them caught near the boarder. At any rate, you do understand that is the most people we have ever deported? That is a record? We spent more money than ever to do that. At that rate, it would take 36 years to deport all the illegals here AND we would have to stop anymore from coming. It's not going to happen. You aren't facing reality.

Give me an outline of a plan and a budget for what you propose, and a timeline. This vague talk is cheap. What are you going to do and how are you going to pay for it?

Did you read what I wrote or not?

 

[starcraftzzz]

I pity that you feel so entitled that you don't want to compete with other workers perhaps if you want a better job you should get an education, or work harder instead of scapegoating others. Only a terrible person such as yourself would want to ruin other peoples lives just because you refuse to work or better yourself.

Another false argument by the anti-American apologist for criminal behavior. Distorting the labor market harms ALL workers. This "you don't want to work hard" BS is an excuse - whether you have the brain cells to realize it or not - for enabling the exploitation of illegal workers and the weakening of the national economy for all. Talk about "ruining peoples lives..." You are a hypocrite and you can't see it because you are only focused on your illegal, immoral agenda.

Lets recap what you said.
1) More workers is bad for an economy
2) Its okay to be lazy and to not improve yourself because ruining other peoples lives can make up for your shortcomings
3) My agenda which is to not spending hundreds of billions of dollars ruining millions of peoples lives is immoral.

Other then that you basically just regurgitated some lies you were brainwashed with. If there were non illegal immigrants in the country the USA economy would be several trillion dollars smaller.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Did you even read what I wrote, shitforbrains?

I apologize if I said something offensive. I am unsure why insults are needed.

Anyone can write it or read it. It is another thing to DO IT. We deported about 350,000 people last year, a lot of them caught near the boarder. At any rate, you do understand that is the most people we have ever deported? That is a record? We spent more money than ever to do that. At that rate, it would take 36 years to deport all the illegals here AND we would have to stop anymore from coming. It's not going to happen. You aren't facing reality.

Give me an outline of a plan and a budget for what you propose, and a timeline. This vague talk is cheap. What are you going to do and how are you going to pay for it?

Did you read what I wrote or not?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

 

[starcraftzzz]

Star... you are barking up the wrong tree. My entire point is to NOT spend anymore money on the issue.

If that is true then you would want to end the deportation of illegals, and all spending policies aimed and stopping them from coming here and preventing them from living normal lives/getting basic services

Period. We can get the illegals out without spending anymore money than we already do.

Lets do basic math currently we spend 30billion and the number of illegals are increasing, in order to stop that increase or to deport more it would cost billions more, meaning more spending. 3rd grade stuff.

Your claims about them being a net positive, economically, are as extreme and full of holes as the other extremes who say they cost us some huge amount of money.

Name one. Because so far I am the only one who has posted actual research, data and statistics.

Neither extreme is true, the truth is in the middle, as always. They cost us an amount of money and a social cost through lower wages in our labor market.

Of which the costs do not outweigh the benefits given that they still effect our labor market if they were in Mexico. THe only difference with them here is that they are more productive then they would be in Mexico, and that we get more tax money and a large economy

At any rate, you aren't making any more of a realistic argument than the people who want to unleash the military on the illegals and evidently, you can't identify who may be an asset to your cause to at least keep the illegals from being brutalized.

I dont need to identify who will be an asset because the fact is that overall as a group illegals are an asset. Basically I've already identified it.

 

[Unkotare]

The Border | 1953 Operation Wetback

OPERATION WETBACK | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com


While I certainly don't advocate a repeat of that program, for obvious reasons, it does go to show that a serious effort at immigration control nets more reduction in illegal immigration than just the number of individuals actually deported personally. A serious effort at enforcement (including the feds not obstructing states efforts at addressing the problem) with border enforcement and severe penalties for anyone hiring, housing, or harboring illegals would result in highly significant rates of self deportation. Just crying "12 million! 12 million! you can't! you can't!" is so obviously going to change nothing that it reveals essentially an open-border position by those who would engage in such defeatism. Apologists for illegal immigration willfully ignore the fact that they are complicit in the exploitation of vulnerable people, the violation of US sovereignty, the weakening of the labor market FOR ALL, perpetuation of crimes such as drug and human trafficking, environmental degredation, and a defacto punishment of LEGAL immigrants who are and have always been of great value to our nation. But people like you don't care about any of that when you've got your political agenda to shill for.

 

[Unkotare]

Lets recap what you said.
1) More workers is bad for an economy
2) Its okay to be lazy and to not improve yourself because ruining other peoples lives can make up for your shortcomings
3) My agenda which is to not spending hundreds of billions of dollars ruining millions of peoples lives is immoral.

NO, I didn't say any of that, you lying fuck. Anyone who can read can see that you are now beyond even trying to reasonably support your indefensible position. You've got nothing left but outright lies and fabrications.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Star, you're a "frantic" albeit a "frantic" on the other side of the issue. We will continue to deport 300,000 + illegals each year and more states will enact laws to drive them out of their states. The only questions are how much force the public will tolerate and / or demand on the issue. If your position is that we should stop deporting people you simple aren't going to see that happen. It doesn't matter what I think. The reality is, you're taking an extreme position that a small minority share. It is your position to support and defend as vigorously as you want, but ultimately you will see more money spent and more people deported for the foreseeable future.

Best regards.

 

[Unkotare]

I apologize if I said something offensive. I am unsure why insults are needed.

Anyone can write it or read it. It is another thing to DO IT. We deported about 350,000 people last year, a lot of them caught near the boarder. At any rate, you do understand that is the most people we have ever deported? That is a record? We spent more money than ever to do that. At that rate, it would take 36 years to deport all the illegals here AND we would have to stop anymore from coming. It's not going to happen. You aren't facing reality.

Give me an outline of a plan and a budget for what you propose, and a timeline. This vague talk is cheap. What are you going to do and how are you going to pay for it?

Did you read what I wrote or not?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

If you did not read what I wrote there is no point in moving on to any questions you ask following.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The Border | 1953 Operation Wetback

OPERATION WETBACK | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com


While I certainly don't advocate a repeat of that program, for obvious reasons, it does go to show that a serious effort at immigration control nets more reduction in illegal immigration than just the number of individuals actually deported personally. A serious effort at enforcement (including the feds not obstructing states efforts at addressing the problem) with border enforcement and severe penalties for anyone hiring, housing, or harboring illegals would result in highly significant rates of self deportation. Just crying "12 million! 12 million! you can't! you can't!" is so obviously going to change nothing that it reveals essentially an open-border position by those who would engage in such defeatism. Apologists for illegal immigration willfully ignore the fact that they are complicit in the exploitation of vulnerable people, the violation of US sovereignty, the weakening of the labor market FOR ALL, perpetuation of crimes such as drug and human trafficking, environmental degredation, and a defacto punishment of LEGAL immigrants who are and have always been of great value to our nation. But people like you don't care about any of that when you've got your political agenda to shill for.

Dude.... that was 80,000 people they managed to round up and deport. Even at 10 x that rate that's only 800,000 people. I am VERY familiar with operation WT. An effort like that wouldn't touch the problem we have today.

(Not to mention that a half million people left on their own during operation WB, out of "fear of deportation". We deport four times as many people every year now as they did in Operation WB and guess what? It doesn't "scare" the others into leaving.)

 

[Sweet Willy]

Political agenda? What political agenda?

You can't deport 12 million people without sever economic and humanitarian repercussions. It's not going to happen. There is nothing political about it, it's just cold hard numbers. You can do like Operation wet back or like the Germans in WWII and round up tens of thousands at a time and at great expense. But 50,000, 80,000 ... these are small numbers of people when you are faced with 12 million. Heck, we deport 350,000 a year NOW.

You ARE NOT facing reality. You are wishing and grasping at straws.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Going door to door and rooting them out cost a fortune and it's just not worth it.

And how many decades – centuries, perhaps – to adjudicate all the deportation cases. Not only is it not worth it, it’s impossible.

Do you always answer a question with a question?

That or an insult.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Lets recap what you said.
1) More workers is bad for an economy
2) Its okay to be lazy and to not improve yourself because ruining other peoples lives can make up for your shortcomings
3) My agenda which is to not spending hundreds of billions of dollars ruining millions of peoples lives is immoral.

NO, I didn't say any of that, you lying fuck. Anyone who can read can see that you are now beyond even trying to reasonably support your indefensible position. You've got nothing left but outright lies and fabrications.

I advise that if you are going to say stupid and absurd things to not cry when someone points out that you said them