When has a union created a job?

[naturegirl]

How poor does the American working class have to get before conservatives will stop bitching about them?

The unions aren't about the "working class" anymore. Haven't been in some time.

They are about protecting the few jobs they have with government subsidies.

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

 

[rightwinger]

The unions aren't about the "working class" anymore. Haven't been in some time.

They are about protecting the few jobs they have with government subsidies.

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

 

[naturegirl]

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Well...if one looks at the fact that in the last fifteen years those at the top have quadrupled their wealth while wages for those at the bottom have stagnated it damn sure hasn't been bothering the wealthy. My wife and I...our pensions, social security and a part time job for her earn earn about $75,000 a year. I worked 41 years in a uranium processing facility and she worked there 25 years and was outsourced to another company which didn't have a pension program. That's all unions ever wanted for anybody...what we have.

Just 2 more overpaid scum sucking government leaches who continue to bleed the private sector dry with excessive tax payer funded & backed pensions. Government Unions screw the citizens. You people are the evil rich who bleed us slaves of our earnings.

LMAO!! I was one of a hundred people who cleaned up the biggest uranium spill in the country's history. We didn't have any kind of mask and from January 1953 to April 1953 100of us worked 24/7 and cleaned up ten tons of uranium feed material which had escaped to the quarter mile long building when a feed cylinder exploded. Operator error but what cha gonna do. The spill occurred on the second floor of a three story plant and nearly a quarter mile away on the third floor the material had condensed and formed icycles two feet long hanging from the six inch construction steel beams at ceiling level. We packaged those in 2X2X2 boxes and coded chemicals came and hauled them away. We had so many vacuum cleaners running that we had to station a cohort at the electrical panel to reset circuit breakers as they tripped. We removed the vacuum cleaner bags and placed labels on them which were marked, "Class D Household Filth" No toxic or radioactive warning or marking of any kind.

Many of those who worked alongside have died from various forms of cancer. One of my close friends had one of the 600 rarerest cases of cancer since they began to document it. They methodically removed all his gentials and removed so much of the tissue around his rectum that transplanting from his buttocks to the affected area was required before he was even able to sit up straight. They sent him home with a morphine drip which he had control of and his wife told me that she would go in the room and he would have it adjusted to 100% and she would back it down to 30% or 40% and thirty mintues later she would go back and it would be 100% again. She thinks the doctors sent him home with a way to end his life. He lived about six months following the surgery.

For a while the government tried to cover it up but about 15 years aqo they began to pay hundreds of cancer patients $150,000. That makes my rectum crave buttermilk. That they believe a man's life is worth $150,000.

I was lucky...they were reducing manpower and I relocated to the data processing facility in 1961. I only spent 10 years there. People today are so goddam spoiled and take so much for granted that they had better hope they never have to put it on the line. The place where I worked didn't even issue film badges to individual employees till 1974. Before that nobody even knows how much radiation an employee was exposed to.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The unions aren't about the "working class" anymore. Haven't been in some time.

They are about protecting the few jobs they have with government subsidies.

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

So you admit that America is in decline and the good paying jobs that bolster a large and thriving middle class are disappearing from this country.

And you think that's somehow a good thing. Why, for god's sake?

 

[Mr Natural]

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

So you admit that America is in decline and the loss of good paying jobs that bolster a large and thriving middle class are disappearing from this country.

And you think that's somehow a good thing. Why, for god's sake?

More money in the hands of the "job creators".

"Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"

 

[naturegirl]

So how poor does the working class have to get before you'll be happy?

In my parents' day, a family with 1 parent working could get by pretty good, have a home, pay the bills, have the necessities and a few luxuries...

...nowadays it's 2 parents working their asses off, not to mention only having 1 or 2 kids because they know they can't afford more,

and hardly anyone even thinks that that situation is any big deal.

Union workers aren't overpaid. It's the rest of the working class that's underpaid.

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

So you admit that America is in decline and the good paying jobs that bolster a large and thriving middle class are disappearing from this country.

And you think that's somehow a good thing. Why, for god's sake?

Unions and the Government ran them out. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said it was a good thing but you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. In a global economy the rich don't need the US, it's workers, it's government or it's Unions. They can go where they are wanted, where people want to work for a fair wage, not some ridiculous hourly rate with even more benefits. Too many US citizens think they can strong arm businesses into doing what they want, it doesn't work that way anymore.

 

[rightwinger]

Two things.........In your PARENTS day. It's no longer your parents day, it's a global economy and most manufacturing has moved to countries that want them there. They don't have Unions creating work stoppage and Government mandated regulations that prevent them from making profits.

In the "me" generation it's all about you. What you want, what you deserve and what you should have. Guess what, if you live within your means mom can stay home with the kids. Buy houses you can afford,they might be a little small, buy groceries and cook at home, buy a good used car and keep up the maintenance, turn the lights off when not using them, give up your cell phone, cable and internet. Too bad the "me" generation can't sacrifice like their PARENTS did.

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

You know......when speaking about the economy, JFK once said "a rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have found a way to ensure that that rising tide only lifts the yachts. One of those ways is to beat down the unions, the right of the workers to stand up and demand that piece of the pie. The workers rights have steadily eroded. Little or no healthcare, no pensions, longer hours, no job security, salaries lagging rising cost of living

And who is the big boogeyman who gets the blame? The unions

Meanwhile, top management grabs an ever larger slice of the pie while they tell workers about hard economic times and how they have to work harder for less benefit

 

[Dragon]

Don't you think it is up to the workers to decide when unions are no longer needed

Yes! Which is why union representation in the private workforce is at record low levels. Unions lose almost every fair election.

"Fair" election?

File:Illegal Union Firing 1952 - 2007.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From 1955 to 1975, illegal firings occurred in no more than 8% of union elections. From 1976-1980, the rate was 14%. In Reagan's first term, it was 31%, in his second, 25%, and it has remained at about 25% ever since except briefly under Clinton, when it dropped to 16% (which was still awful).

Note that this only shows when employers were CAUGHT illegally suppressing unions.

Starting with Jimmy Carter's administration and worsening under Reagan, the government turned more hostile to the rights of labor. Employers have felt free to use intimidation, threats, spying, and other illegal methods to keep workers from forming unions. Some get caught, but see the fines (which are obviously not adequate to deter the practice) as just a minor cost of doing business.

Under those circumstances, there are very few union elections that can be characterized as "fair." The reason that unions remain strong in the public sector is that government agencies are not in the habit of using illegal methods of union suppression. If private companies were properly prevented from doing so, unions would be much stronger today.

 

[naturegirl]

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

You know......when speaking about the economy, JFK once said "a rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have found a way to ensure that that rising tide only lifts the yachts. One of those ways is to beat down the unions, the right of the workers to stand up and demand that piece of the pie. The workers rights have steadily eroded. Little or no healthcare, no pensions, longer hours, no job security, salaries lagging rising cost of living

And who is the big boogeyman who gets the blame? The unions

Meanwhile, top management grabs an ever larger slice of the pie while they tell workers about hard economic times and how they have to work harder for less benefit

Seriously, it's no problem..........they'll just move to China or Mexico or some where else that people want to work for what they are willing to pay. Easy peasy, see. The Unions are one of the boogeymen, government regulation is the other.

 

[Dragon]

Seriously, it's no problem..........they'll just move to China or Mexico or some where else that people want to work for what they are willing to pay. Easy peasy, see. The Unions are one of the boogeymen, government regulation is the other.

This is such BS.

Even now, after wages have risen quite a bit in China, typical monthly wages in Shanghai run less than $200. Source: China's Rising Wages Propel Prices - WSJ.com

An American NON-UNION factory worker might get $12 an hour in the garment industry, assuming that still exists here. For a 40-hour work week without overtime (yeah, right) that comes to $2,080 a month, not including benefits. That's more than TEN TIMES what labor costs in China. (And I haven't even factored in the longer workday for Chinese workers.) Or, to put it another way, the factory is saving NINETY PERCENT of its labor costs by moving to China.

Set up against that, union versus non-union labor costs are trivial. Regulation costs are trivial. Everything is trivial. With savings like that, union or no union, regulations or no regulations, if they can move, they'll move.

The only jobs that will stay here are those that can't be outsourced. That includes most service jobs and the really high-tech end of manufacturing. Unionizing those jobs will NOT send the employers packing. If they could go, they'd have gone already.

 

[rightwinger]

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

You know......when speaking about the economy, JFK once said "a rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have found a way to ensure that that rising tide only lifts the yachts. One of those ways is to beat down the unions, the right of the workers to stand up and demand that piece of the pie. The workers rights have steadily eroded. Little or no healthcare, no pensions, longer hours, no job security, salaries lagging rising cost of living

And who is the big boogeyman who gets the blame? The unions

Meanwhile, top management grabs an ever larger slice of the pie while they tell workers about hard economic times and how they have to work harder for less benefit

Seriously, it's no problem..........they'll just move to China or Mexico or some where else that people want to work for what they are willing to pay. Easy peasy, see. The Unions are one of the boogeymen, government regulation is the other.

So......your threat is that unless we incorporate the labor, safety and ecological standards of China we will lose all of our jobs

No matter what we do, we can not set the bar that low. Any jobs that can go to China ....will

Want to compare the salaries of Chinese executives to American executives? Maybe that will set a good standard

 

[naturegirl]

I love how people keep putting words I didn't say in their responses. Businesses don't need Unions, they don't need government regulations, they don't need our labor.

What Dragon and Rightwinger fail to realize is that most businesses are in business to make a PROFIT. They'd rather stay here and pay a little more but when the Unions and Government regulations prevent them from being profitable, they can just shut down or move.

The world is a whole lot smaller than it was in 1950-1970. I'm sitting right here in Georgia having a conversation with several different people from all over, for the cost of an internet connection.

Keep believing government regulations are "trivial", yea see how many jobs that creates.

 

[Dragon]

What Dragon and Rightwinger fail to realize is that most businesses are in business to make a PROFIT. They'd rather stay here and pay a little more but when the Unions and Government regulations prevent them from being profitable, they can just shut down or move.

The point I was making, which by the way was in no sense putting words in your mouth, is that neither unions nor government regulations are preventing businesses from being profitable, nor are they the reason that businesses outsource. I was pointing out that your facts are totally wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

What Dragon and Rightwinger fail to realize is that most businesses are in business to make a PROFIT. They'd rather stay here and pay a little more but when the Unions and Government regulations prevent them from being profitable, they can just shut down or move.

The point I was making, which by the way was in no sense putting words in your mouth, is that neither unions nor government regulations are preventing businesses from being profitable, nor are they the reason that businesses outsource. I was pointing out that your facts are totally wrong.

No? When costs exceed revenue the result is loss. No business except government can sustain loss indefinitely. Since labor is a major component of any business labor costs largely will dictate whether the business can run at a profit or loss. When regulations add gratuitous costs then it reduces profits. So you are completely wrong. What a shock.

 

[Cammmpbell]

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

You know......when speaking about the economy, JFK once said "a rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have found a way to ensure that that rising tide only lifts the yachts. One of those ways is to beat down the unions, the right of the workers to stand up and demand that piece of the pie. The workers rights have steadily eroded. Little or no healthcare, no pensions, longer hours, no job security, salaries lagging rising cost of living

And who is the big boogeyman who gets the blame? The unions

Meanwhile, top management grabs an ever larger slice of the pie while they tell workers about hard economic times and how they have to work harder for less benefit

The right loves to give John Kennedy credit for that quotation but in fact in the three times he used it in a speech not a one was referring to national economics. The first time it was used with an economics plan was by Ronald Reagan and had to do with his "Trickle Down, Voodoo Economics" which never worked...not even a little bit. Listen...you hand me $3 trillion of 1980's dollars and even I can look good till I have used it.

 

[Dragon]

No? When costs exceed revenue the result is loss. No business except government can sustain loss indefinitely. Since labor is a major component of any business labor costs largely will dictate whether the business can run at a profit or loss. When regulations add gratuitous costs then it reduces profits. So you are completely wrong. What a shock.

Did you read my last post on the subject? Outsourcing saves a company NINETY PERCENT or more of its labor costs. Any other proposed explanation for outsourcing is trivial and a diversion from the real reason.

When outsourced labor costs one-tenth as much as NON-UNION labor in the U.S., the difference between union pay and non-union pay is unimportant.

No regulatory cost ever has or ever will come anywhere near equaling ninety percent of a company's labor costs.

If all American unions were to disappear tomorrow, and all business regulations and corporate taxes were to be repealed, the savings from that would still not come anywhere near offsetting the increased cost of labor from relocating here, and no outsourced jobs would come home.

 

[Jarhead]

There is no doubt my parents sacrificed. My father raised four kids with a High School education climbing telephone poles and fixing lines. My mom did not work. He still afforded a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, healthcare and sent four kids to college (without taking out a loan)on one salary

I went to college, my wife worked, we had two kids and achieved the same standard of living as my parents

That is the American dream evaporating. Get more education, work two incomes and pray you can afford to send your kids to college

If it was a shared sacrifice and all Americans saw a decline in their standard of living, it would be understandable. But during this 30 years when working Americans saw their spending power evaporate, the wealthiest have managed to claim a bigger slice of the pie

We need unions to stand up for the rights of the working class and demand a bigger slice of the pie

Enlighten me, when the Unions stand up and demand what do you think those companies are going to do??

The day of demand and work stoppage left when the manufacturing sector left. That's exactly why the Unions are entrenched in government. It's the only way they can get dues and stay in existence. Raping the taxpayers isn't the same as the Union that fought for worker's rights.

Those Unions have gone by the wayside in favor of payoffs and big money. The Unions today don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line just like the big business you loathe. They are the epitome of Crony Capitalism.

You know......when speaking about the economy, JFK once said "a rising tide lifts all boats"

Conservatives have found a way to ensure that that rising tide only lifts the yachts. One of those ways is to beat down the unions, the right of the workers to stand up and demand that piece of the pie. The workers rights have steadily eroded. Little or no healthcare, no pensions, longer hours, no job security, salaries lagging rising cost of living

And who is the big boogeyman who gets the blame? The unions

Meanwhile, top management grabs an ever larger slice of the pie while they tell workers about hard economic times and how they have to work harder for less benefit

Got a question of logic......

Seeing as the majority of conservatives are not uber wealthy....and likewise, seeing as tyhe amount of uber wealthy makes up only 1 % of the electorate.....and seeing as the "wealthy" make up only 5% opf the elctorate.....

What makes you think that the GOP and conservaitves want to do as you say? What is their driving force? To make only 1% happy?

In other words...you are spinning the truth about conservaitves and the motives of conservatives.

The question is why. Is it that you beleive debating the truth without your spin will result in your losing the debate?

 

[Jarhead]

No? When costs exceed revenue the result is loss. No business except government can sustain loss indefinitely. Since labor is a major component of any business labor costs largely will dictate whether the business can run at a profit or loss. When regulations add gratuitous costs then it reduces profits. So you are completely wrong. What a shock.

Did you read my last post on the subject? Outsourcing saves a company NINETY PERCENT or more of its labor costs. Any other proposed explanation for outsourcing is trivial and a diversion from the real reason.

When outsourced labor costs one-tenth as much as NON-UNION labor in the U.S., the difference between union pay and non-union pay is unimportant.

No regulatory cost ever has or ever will come anywhere near equaling ninety percent of a company's labor costs.

If all American unions were to disappear tomorrow, and all business regulations and corporate taxes were to be repealed, the savings from that would still not come anywhere near offsetting the increased cost of labor from relocating here, and no outsourced jobs would come home.

question...

you seem to know a lot on this topic...

So tell me.....percentage wise....how many jobs have we lost to employees overseas?

10%? 20%.....1%?

 

[Dragon]

So tell me.....percentage wise....how many jobs have we lost to employees overseas?

Depends on how you define "lost." I see the failure to unionize the service industries that have replaced manufacturing as our main employer as a bigger problem than the loss of manufacturing jobs themselves.

Anyway -- if you mean "lost" as in "this job used to be done here and now it's done somewhere else," the answer is around ten percent of the total work force. If you mean "lost" as in "this job is gone and the guy who did it is still unemployed, nothing has replaced it," the answer is hardly any. It's been a loss of quality rather than quantity, and that has happened almost entirely because the lost manufacturing jobs were unionized and the new service jobs have not been.

Manufacturing jobs used to pay shit, too. If service industries were unionized, they would pay better, just as happened in manufacturing. And most service jobs can't be outsourced (which is pretty much why they haven't been already).