What Would You Do If This Happened To You?

[Charles_Main]

You are a whining bitch. If all a person says is that he would not mind something, why call the cops? That is not anywhere near as bad as saying if I shoot Reagan Jodie will like me. One is just something people say occasionally, the other is delusional.

The guy is an idiot for wanting it to happen.

Can you people just imagine what would happen to this country if Obama was assassinated.

Good god, you think we are divided now.

The last thing I want to see is Obama shot, because I am not an idiot. That does not mean that someone saying he doesn't care if it happens justifies the taxpayer expense of an investigation, which is what happened here. I understand the desire of the Secret Service to investigate any and all threats, but that is simply way to expensive, not to mention counterproductive. Security is not obtained by chasing millions of false leads, it comes from an intelligent assessment of the risks.

That may have been true, but Secret service policy would have to change. Their Current policy Dictates that any verbal Threat must be investigated.

Those boys take their job real seriously.

 

[Immanuel]

The crucial fact here isn't that he got reported, but that the secret service felt it was worth pursuing. So, barring embellishment by the reporter, all of you who are saying that this was a "non-issue" are wrong. Obviously the secret service felt it was.

Furthermore, I think we can cut the histrionics. Getting a visit from the federalies doesn't equate to someone having their "life ruined".

It can... I wonder is the guy now on the "No Fly List"?

Immie

It would be better if he were on the "No Gun List"

He definitely seems to have missed the brains list.

I don't believe what he said was a threat, but quite honestly, I think only an idiot says something like that about anyone let alone a President. Whether or not it was an actual threat, and I don't think it was, it is a stupid thing to say. I can't imagine that there are American adults who don't know that it is a crime to threaten the President.

Why on earth would someone risk being mis-understood and take the chance of ending up in prison over a stupid statement?

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

People are stupid all the time, and the Secret Service's primary duty is to protect the President.

I came into contact with some former Secret Service guys on job back in the day, and they all, as strange as some of them were, their professionalism when into came to security was second to none.

 

[MikeK]

In my lifetime, there have been two Presidents shot. Anyone that makes a statement like that in my presence, no matter what their politics are, or what the politics of the current president are, they will be reported. Just too many looney tunes out there that would make it a third president in my lifetime.

I was very saddened by the Kennedy Assassination but when Hinckley shot Reagan my only regret was Hinckley was able to afford nothing heavier than a pawn-shop .22. Another fifty bucks and he could have gotten an old .357 -- and we would have been rid of that corporatist bastard a lot sooner.

Anyway, I'm glad young John got off with a psycho bit and is out now. It's too bad nobody was able to convince him that Bush was screwing Jodie Foster, too.

It took me about six months into George W. Bush's first term in Office to realize what a rotten prick he is and as the months went by my wish for his abrupt and painful demise increased exponentially. Because I am wholly rational, and because I fear the potential consequences, as much as I despise him it would not occur to me to harm that disgusting man. But if someone else nailed him I would have celebrated -- and if whoever did it got caught I would have sent money to his prison commissary account.

Even today I would be very pleased to learn that something really terrible happened to George W. Bush because he deserves it. Same with Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and a few more members of the Bush Crime Family. I consider these people enemies of my Country as well as capital criminals and as such it is reasonable to wish them suffering or death.

These are my opinions and whomever is unaware of my right to express them is just as stupidly chauvinistic as is the nitwit who sicced the Men In Black on the guy who expressed an opinion on Obama. Lots of people hate Obama. That comes with the job and is to be expected.

The First Amendment ensures free speech. Wishing that someone were dead or killed is neither threat nor plan. It is simply a wish. It does not call for a visit by the Gestapo!

 

[JakeStarkey]

MikeK, I did not like Reagan when I was in California as a student, I did not like the slump when I was in the Army (many Os and NCOs left because of his incredibly lousy leadership as CiC), I think he did far more harm to this country in the name of my party than any president, but to hope Hinckley had succeeded reveals a real lack of character integrity in you. My opinion. My strong opinion.

 

[MikeK]

I don't believe what he said was a threat, but quite honestly, I think only an idiot says something like that about anyone let alone a President. Whether or not it was an actual threat, and I don't think it was, it is a stupid thing to say. I can't imagine that there are American adults who don't know that it is a crime to threaten the President.

Why on earth would someone risk being mis-understood and take the chance of ending up in prison over a stupid statement?

Immie

Because this is America in which our right to free speech is guaranteed by our Constitution. And while the First Amendment doesn't extend the right to verbally incite panic or to issue threats, wishing suffering or death upon someone is not subject to official intervention. And because something might be in poor taste does not make it illegal.


"Whomever would make his own liberty secure must guard even his most despised countryman from oppression by government. For if he ignores this sacred duty he thus establishes a precedent which someday will surely reach to himself." (Thomas Paine)

 

[MikeK]

That may have been true, but Secret service policy would have to change. Their Current policy Dictates that any verbal Threat must be investigated.

Those boys take their job real seriously.

Do you understand the difference between a threat and an expressed hope, a verbalized yearning?

 

[MikeK]

You imagine wrong.

They take every threat seriously. The next time the President is in this guys neck of the woods, they will be watching him.

That's how they prevent assassinations.

They don't sit up there and flip a coin or consult a Ouija board on the matter. They don't have that luxury.

I would guess that in view of Obama's lack of popularity within right-wing circles there are no less than ten-thousand expressed wishes that he were dead every day. And I am quite sure Obama knows that and the Secret Service knows it, too. And if some super-chauvinistic busybody saw fit to report every one of these expressed wishes to the SS, do you think they have sufficient personnel to do a run on every one of them? Or half of them? Or one tenth of them?

I am quite surprised they actually saw fit to respond to this complaint, which I tend to believe was exaggerated well beyond what is described in the topic message. Simply stated, there was no threat!

 

[MikeK]

[[...]

Don't fuck with the Secret Service. They take their job seriously. That's the morale of the story. Other than that, the guy had no long term damages other than being the complete asshole that he was prior to getting a knock on his door.

It appears that you have a rather melodramatic impression of the Secret Service and its capabilities. If every wish for Obama's demise uttered on a daily basis were reported to the Secret Service they simply would not have sufficient time or personnel to pay attention to them all. Nor would they be interested in doing so because they know that with very few exceptions they are all just idle talk.

So long as they don't have sufficient personnel to check out every call they have an excuse for not doing so. But if they happen to be in a slow week and they do have sufficient time and people when a call like this one comes in, they will act on it just to cover their ass in case something does come of it. But rest assured they regard it as a pain in the ass and wish the complainant were not such a busybody.

In this respect they are no different than cops on routine patrol when they get what they know to be a nuisance call. They have to do a run on it but it is a pain-in-the-ass just the same.

 

[JakeStarkey]

MikeK, you can voice your interp about the Constitution, but your opinion is not the law.

One word of advice: don't.

 

[MikeK]

I would have told the guy to put his money where his mouth is and do it himself otherwise shut the fuck up about it when I'm around.

Would you tell him that if he outweighs you by fifty pounds and has broken at least one jaw that you know about and two you've heard about?

 

[MikeK]

I would have told the guy to put his money where his mouth is and do it himself otherwise shut the fuck up about it when I'm around.

It's a coin flip on whether I would say anything or not. The guy's an asshole. I've got plenty of reasons to tell him to STFU...this is just one of them. I think it would depend on what kind of mood I was in.

(And how big he is?)

 

[MikeK]

As a teacher, any and all threats must be reported. I could not live with myself if a kid hurt himself or someone else, and I had heard something. That policy makes judgement calls much easier. Maybe he should have gone to the boss instead, but if it was really bothering him, I still think he did the right thing. There are always red flags before someone goes postal.

Have you heard about the teacher who had an 8 year-old boy removed from school because he drew a picture of a gun? Or the teacher who had a 12 year-old girl suspended because she had a fingernail clipper with a file on it? And there are many more, similarly absurd examples.

So we need to focus on where to draw the line to avoid taking ourselves and our civic responsibilities too seriously. What the topic message describes is an unpopular employee who expressed a personal opinion, not at all a threat, and another employee, who it seems was motivated largely by racial issues, to cause trouble. And now the chauvinists, the jingoists and the jerkoffs are massaging the issue to make a mountain out of molehill.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

The Secret Service takes all these threats seriously and will react swiftly to them. To my understanding this stance it totally legal. You have the right to say stupid things. You have no protection against the consequences of your words.

This is a confusing paragraph.

You said; "You have the right to say stupid things." Then you say; "You have no protection against the consequences of your words."

This thread is especially interesting to me because I am a passionate First Amendment advocate and the phrase; "You have no protection against the consequences of your words" gets my attention.

I accept the proscription against making threats but Amendment One draws a clear line right there. The very idea that federal agents would officiate in a situation which does not involve an actual threat is presumptuously intrusive.

So I will appreciate it if you would clarify what you mean in that paragraph.

 

[nraforlife]

................but isn't this going too far?

Of course it is, BUT the Feds have had this particular sort of response for at least 30 years.

Just be grateful that now you know just who the fed fink is in your workplace.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Not at all. This guy might may not be able to get close enough to the president, but perhaps he might find an Obama supporter would suffice. Let the cops deal with it. If there is nothing there, so be it. Too many crazies out there today.

I just hope he doesn't find out who snitched.

Wrong answer. Unless he made a SPECIFIC threat and had some even tiny chance of carrying it out it IS NOT a matter for the cops. I am free to say I wish someone were dead. Or that it would not bother me if someone got killed. Or even "it would not bother me if someone got assassinated". NONE of those statements are criminal acts. Nor are they suspicious or require Police investigation.

Yes, and the FBI coming to your house to ask you questions is not a criminal act either. The fact is that you can be investigated at any time by anybody, regardless of crime. He said something stupid, he dealt with some questions.

 

[MikeK]

Nobody saw Columbine coming. However I'd like to point out that those kids were victims of teasing from the other kids. They seemed to think that Christians were at fault. I remember them asking every one of their victims if they where Christians before they shot them.

Wonder why they did that?

That's very interesting. I hadn't heard about that and it is very worthy of exploring.

 

[MikeK]

Nah, I am not Obama fan, But we must protect the office. Nobody should be wishing any president dead.

Why?

Suppose we have a president who turns out to be a dedicated fascist. Would you not wish for someone to take him out by any means necessary?

 

[MikeK]

The guy is an idiot for wanting it to happen.

Can you people just imagine what would happen to this country if Obama was assassinated.

Good god, you think we are divided now.

That guy expressed his opinion and you just expressed yours. That is very American and we should be primarily concerned with keeping it that way

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Why?

Suppose we have a president who turns out to be a dedicated fascist. Would you not wish for someone to take him out by any means necessary?

hahaha. it's always a fascist. I would hope the two conclusions a sane American would have, regardless of how horrible a person they believe the president to be, are riding it out, or impeachment.