What Went Wrong With Trade?

[FA_Q2]

I agree that trade policy is asinine. It is structured to benefit major corporations and not America.

First, and most importantly, we desperately need to re-write our unfair, unjust, and one-sided foreign trade agreements and policies, so that they become fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies. We're at a tremendous disadvantage in the world market place. We can NOT compete with cheap foreign labor markets. We're not allowed to work children in sweat shops 18 hours a day. Our standard of living does not allow us to work for $10.00 a day wages. We have laws and regulations governing businesses and commerce in general, that some of our trading partners do not have.

The interesting part about that is that tariffs will ALSO not allow us our standard of living because it will naturally drive prices up. No matter what our policy does, it will require a change in what we expect as a standard of living.

NO TARIFFS ... PERIOD ............. NEVER agree to tariffs. They're NOT needed. All that's needed are fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies, period.

( ***** SIDE NOTE ***** ) ---- Also, we MUST severely punish the off-shore out-sourcing of our jobs, severely punish the importing of labor, and RID this country of ILLEGAL immigrants.

Call it what you want.

It results in the same exact thing. Any move you make that limits free trade increases local prices.
My point still stands.

FYI - What I have said has absolutely ZERO to do with Tariffs, none. And, I have said absolutely NOTHING about limiting FREE TRADE, absolutely nothing. You have no point. What you've done, is completely misunderstood everything that I said. It's obvious by your comments in response. What the results would be is "fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade, period." And, that my friend is speaking in plain English.

So,

NO TARIFFS ... PERIOD ............. NEVER agree to tariffs.

Has absolutely zero to do with tariffs? i brought them up and you disagreed with them. I am telling you that interfering with trade in any way is identical.

Further, you are not speaking plain English - you are speaking in meaningless platitudes. I asked directly - WHAT is "fair, equal and balanced" trade policy?

Trade policy is either free or it is hampered by policies to the end of some goal. There is no way around that. You cannot be an advocate of 'free trade' and balanced trade policy - they are mutually exclusive.

 

[Windship]

I hear a lot of opposite party bashing. Always have but with none or little explanation. Id like to debate individual issues. Can we debate trade policies?
Tariffs being all but illiminated caused this job problem. It took some time after tariffs were lowered and iliminated for greed to take over but it reared its head in the late 60's and we have the problems with jobs and taxes that we have now.

Thank you for bringing up, I appreciate it. Yes, everyone needs to talk about it, understand it, and push to correct the tremendous social and economic damage since the 50's when we started rebuilding Japan's economy.

Well...what if we still had tariffs and we didn't have to use tax dollars to rebuild?

 

[FA_Q2]

This is where I agree with Trump. Our trade deals have been made by absolute idiots. People more concerned with "playing fair" and "being nice" than getting us the best deal. Trade policies with Japan and China are killing us. NAFTA is an unmitigated failure which has cost us millions of jobs.

No, they were most certainly not written by idiots. They were written by VERY intelligent people. The problem is those people were not our representatives but rather the major companies that they worked for.

They were made specifically to benefit major international monied interests rather than the people or the nation.

 

[FA_Q2]

I agree that trade policy is asinine. It is structured to benefit major corporations and not America.

First, and most importantly, we desperately need to re-write our unfair, unjust, and one-sided foreign trade agreements and policies, so that they become fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies. We're at a tremendous disadvantage in the world market place. We can NOT compete with cheap foreign labor markets. We're not allowed to work children in sweat shops 18 hours a day. Our standard of living does not allow us to work for $10.00 a day wages. We have laws and regulations governing businesses and commerce in general, that some of our trading partners do not have.

The interesting part about that is that tariffs will ALSO not allow us our standard of living because it will naturally drive prices up. No matter what our policy does, it will require a change in what we expect as a standard of living.

FA,...reinstating the tariffs would make it nonprofitable for corporation and business to stay abroad or in mex, or anywhere. THIS Country is where they sell. This Country buys. They would be forced to come back or cut off The U.S. as a trading pard and prices would not increase that much because the items would sit on the shelves. The greedy corporations would be forced to cut profit and lower prices or the items would sit on the shelves just like the chicken eggs. When the price drops, itll sell.Corporations are making way, way more profits than any other time in history. We need to reinstate the balance.

You are incorrect.

Prices would naturally increase and many may increase dramatically. The reality is that taxes (and the monies gained by imports) is not the real driver of those increases. Regulation and labor are. You want to move industry out of China you are going to have to deal with the fact that china not only allows labor for a quarter an hour but also the fact that they don't care what you do with toxic waste or air pollution.

There is a hefty price to pay for bringing industry back. Not the least of which is that industry is going the way of the dinosaur anyway.

 

[Sonny Clark]

.

NO TARIFFS -- THERE IS NO NEED FOR TARIFFS .......... fair, equal, and balanced trade would fix the problem.[/QUOTE]

Really?! Give us your plan?[/QUOTE]
My plan is very simple. Fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade with our trading partners. Go to Dictionary.com and look up what fair means, what equal means, and what balanced means. Those three words have very simple meanings.

 

[Windship]

I didn't say they wouldn't increase, I said they wouldn't stay high for long and you did not comment on the jobs coming back and wages increasing.

Chicken egg prices are already decreasing and its been not long.

 

[Windship]

.

NO TARIFFS -- THERE IS NO NEED FOR TARIFFS .......... fair, equal, and balanced trade would fix the problem.

Really?! Give us your plan?[/QUOTE]
My plan is very simple. Fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade with our trading partners. Go to Dictionary.com and look up what fair means, what equal means, and what balanced means. Those three words have very simple meanings.[/QUOTE]

Explain? Give an example! lmao

 

[Sonny Clark]

I hear a lot of opposite party bashing. Always have but with none or little explanation. Id like to debate individual issues. Can we debate trade policies?
Tariffs being all but illiminated caused this job problem. It took some time after tariffs were lowered and iliminated for greed to take over but it reared its head in the late 60's and we have the problems with jobs and taxes that we have now.

Thank you for bringing up, I appreciate it. Yes, everyone needs to talk about it, understand it, and push to correct the tremendous social and economic damage since the 50's when we started rebuilding Japan's economy.

Well...what if we still had tariffs and we didn't have to use tax dollars to rebuild?

No tariffs. And why would tax dollars be used to "rebuild"? Rebuild what? Use tax dollars for what?

 

[Windship]

Ummm....I already am aware of that info, FA, the wages and pollution...

 

[FA_Q2]

.

NO TARIFFS -- THERE IS NO NEED FOR TARIFFS .......... fair, equal, and balanced trade would fix the problem.

Really?! Give us your plan?[/QUOTE]
My plan is very simple. Fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade with our trading partners. Go to Dictionary.com and look up what fair means, what equal means, and what balanced means. Those three words have very simple meanings.[/QUOTE]
IOW, you have no idea. Those words do have simple meanings. So simple, in fact, that they do not contain one iota of actual policy or idea for trade policy.

Well, thanks for playing but there is no longer a need to respond to such empty remarks. I might as well play in the RDean sandbox and I have no interest in such a vapid conversation.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I agree that trade policy is asinine. It is structured to benefit major corporations and not America.

The interesting part about that is that tariffs will ALSO not allow us our standard of living because it will naturally drive prices up. No matter what our policy does, it will require a change in what we expect as a standard of living.

NO TARIFFS ... PERIOD ............. NEVER agree to tariffs. They're NOT needed. All that's needed are fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies, period.

( ***** SIDE NOTE ***** ) ---- Also, we MUST severely punish the off-shore out-sourcing of our jobs, severely punish the importing of labor, and RID this country of ILLEGAL immigrants.

Call it what you want.

It results in the same exact thing. Any move you make that limits free trade increases local prices.
My point still stands.

FYI - What I have said has absolutely ZERO to do with Tariffs, none. And, I have said absolutely NOTHING about limiting FREE TRADE, absolutely nothing. You have no point. What you've done, is completely misunderstood everything that I said. It's obvious by your comments in response. What the results would be is "fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade, period." And, that my friend is speaking in plain English.

So,

NO TARIFFS ... PERIOD ............. NEVER agree to tariffs.

Has absolutely zero to do with tariffs? i brought them up and you disagreed with them. I am telling you that interfering with trade in any way is identical.

Further, you are not speaking plain English - you are speaking in meaningless platitudes. I asked directly - WHAT is "fair, equal and balanced" trade policy?

Trade policy is either free or it is hampered by policies to the end of some goal. There is no way around that. You cannot be an advocate of 'free trade' and balanced trade policy - they are mutually exclusive.

Go to dictionary.com and look up what fair means. Look up what equal means. Look up what balanced means. Surely you're smart enough to look up the meaning to words, aren't you?

 

[Windship]

sonny, stick ur head back into that bag with glue in it and continue to breath.

 

[Sonny Clark]

.

NO TARIFFS -- THERE IS NO NEED FOR TARIFFS .......... fair, equal, and balanced trade would fix the problem.

Really?! Give us your plan?

My plan is very simple. Fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade with our trading partners. Go to Dictionary.com and look up what fair means, what equal means, and what balanced means. Those three words have very simple meanings.[/QUOTE]
IOW, you have no idea. Those words do have simple meanings. So simple, in fact, that they do not contain one iota of actual policy or idea for trade policy.

Well, thanks for playing but there is no longer a need to respond to such empty remarks. I might as well play in the RDean sandbox and I have no interest in such a vapid conversation.[/QUOTE]
Very funny. What is it about fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade that you don't understand? Please, don't be so mindless as to block out the meaning of those three words. What don't you understand about fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade?

 

[Sonny Clark]

sonny, stick ur head back into that bag with glue in it and continue to breath.

And, continue sticking your sorry ass head up your sorry ass.

 

[FA_Q2]

I didn't say they wouldn't increase, I said they wouldn't stay high for long and you did not comment on the jobs coming back and wages increasing.

Chicken egg prices are already decreasing and its been not long.

You are asserting that they would stabalize at a rate near what they are now - are you not? Or at least in comparison with wage increases. At least that is what I think you are stating.

I disagree and I think that the basics of economics bears this out. The simplest way to look at this is that you are artificially decreasing the supply. Even when the production moves back here, you are still reducing the supply as you are removing the ability to make the same products far cheaper. This means that the new price point - no matter where wages move to - will be higher than the current.

Wherever wages goes is irrelevant as the cost will adjust to the new wages according to the new supply and demand.

I think we would be better off in the long run though as it would normalize the economy. Right now we have a disappearing middle class because the ability to make massive amounts of money using overseas resources exists without supplying the middle class with the jobs required to keep our economy going. IOW, you would see a growing middle class but a reduced standard of living in the general sense as well as a reduction in the disparity of wealth.

 

[Windship]

FA, what would happen if an item on the shelf at 5.00 and no one bought it because it was to expensive?

 

[Sonny Clark]

FA, what would happen if an item on the shelf at 5.00 and no one bought it because it was to expensive?

Very simple. It would stay on the shelf. Or, it would be removed to make room for an item that would sell. Rocket science?

 

[Windship]

economics=to expensive=no sale="consumer sets the price"

 

[FA_Q2]

FA, what would happen if an item on the shelf at 5.00 and no one bought it because it was to expensive?

Less of them would be made as demand is not high enough, the price would be adjusted down or the item would cease to be sold entirely as there is no profit to be made.

How about you make the relevant point.

 

[FA_Q2]

economics=to expensive=no sale="consumer sets the price"

Not really. Supply and demand set the price - essentially profit. The company makes the product at a price point that yields the most profit. If that means selling half the product at three times the profit is better than selling twice the product at normal profit.

Your statement does not deal with anything I said. The fact is that as you limit supply you increase cost. That is basic economics. The price point finds a balance. That balance will be higher if you artificially limit supply.