What to make of Andrea Rossi's apparent cold fusion success

Discussion in 'Energy' started by Matthew, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    What to make of Andrea Rossi's apparent cold fusion success

    The apparent success of Andrea Rossi's E-Cat cold fusion demonstration on 28 October is starting to send ripples into the mainstream press. So what new clues do we have to settle whether it's the breakthrough of the century or the scam of the decade?

    In the demonstration, overseen by engineers and technicians from Rossi's mysterious US customer, the device appeared to produce over 470 kilowatts of heat for several hours. The customer was evidently satisfied and paid for the device, though other scientists and journalists attending were not given close access to the test equipment.

    Following his first sale, Rossi now says he has orders for thirteen more megawatt-class E-Cat power plants. He's offering them to anyone at $2,000 (£1,250) a kilowatt, which works out at $2 million (£1.25 million) per unit, and says he has customers in the US and Europe. Rossi says a domestic version rated at a few kilowatts is at least a year away. He is also working on adapting the E-Cat so its heat output can converted to electricity, but this will require higher working temperatures and will take two years or more.

    Firstly, the demonstration should have been much more convincing. The shipping container housing the E-Cat setup should have been hoisted from a crane and visibly disconnected from any external power supply. As with all conjuring tricks, the audience should have been allowed to inspect the apparatus. And why only claim 470 kilowatts when you're supposed to be producing twice that amount? If the whole thing was set-up, and the mystery customer a fake, it was not well calculated to convince anyone else.

    Secondly, this is normally the point at which a con artist starts issuing shares, asking for capital, or taking "deposits" from gullible consumers. Anything to grab some cash from those willing to offer it. Instead, Rossi is apparently only taking orders from large customers who will be checking the devices work before they take delivery. These are people with good lawyers to write contracts and deal with any complications. They are not easy targets. Whatever he's doing, he's going for the longer game.
    This is not quite what you'd expect from a fraudster.


    Meanwhile, the media coverage has been shifting away from the possibility of fraud, and some mainstream commentators are toying with the idea that this might just be the big breakthrough that Rossi claims.

    Fox News was first out, though they took a few days to catch on, publishing a piece on 2 November which focused on the identity of the anonymous customer. Following a hint from Rossi, Fox decided the customer is real and is the US Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR).

    It's a reasonable enough guess. The US Navy is one of the few institutions where cold fusion research still continues openly, but the evidence is scant. Although a Paul Swanson from SPAWAR was present as an observer at one test, this may simply be evidence of continuing interest in the field, and the organisation will not make any comment.

    Then on 3 November MSNBC ran a cautiously optimistic piece under the headline "Italian cold fusion machine passes another test", noting that although there is widespread scepticism about cold fusion, "proof is adding up" that the technology works.

    More curious is the lack of a story from Associated Press. AP science reporter Peter Svensson flew from New York to attend the demonstration, and live coverage of the event was curtailed to give AP the exclusive. But Svensson has so far not written a word about it. Some online commentators suggested that he had been silenced by "Chinese-style information censorship." When challenged, AP apparently initially tried to deny Svensson was there, though photographs suggest otherwise.

    This led to a campaign encouraging people to contact Svensson about the story via his Twitter feed. At first he simply replied with variations of "Sorry, there's nothing I can tell you at this point", but later changed to "All I can say is 'stay tuned'".

    Our guess is that AP does not want to publish anything until it can verify the reality and perhaps the identity of the customer. This in itself suggests a degree of optimism: it's gambling that there will be a big story at the end, and it has accepted being scooped by Fox and MSNBC on the smaller story of the demonstration in order to get it.

    ...--------------------
    If I was a buyer of one of these- I'd ask when it's in sustaining(operational mode) that the input cable to be unhooked. I'd have them do this for a few hours at least...If this somehow worked, then something is happening...I doubt there is any kind of battery like system that could do this. Sure, I'd have them put it on a table that you could look below to...Just to make sure that theres no trick going on.

    I wouldn't put out a cent unless they did this. A buyer would have to be a complete idiot not to ask for at least that. 2 million dollars a piece...I guess, I can't even think about it yet, but maybe if it works one day it will become cheap. :eusa_whistle:

    I wonder if the hot water is safe enough to make a cup of coffee or hot chocolate? :lol: Because, if it only last's a few hours it's only good for that or maybe short term power generation. Needs to be proven to last months for it to be a convincing enough for main electrical power. Lastly, I'd likely hire a real physicist to look over my product before buying.


    "Meanwhile, we're left waiting until Rossi delivers the next E-Cat, which will be going to a different customer, in a few months. Hopefully they will be less secretive. In fact, if interest keeps growing, they could put the machine on show and use the steam output to make froth on cups of cappuccino for paying spectators and get a quick return on their £1.25 million investment."
    What to make of Andrea Rossi's apparent cold fusion success (Wired UK)



    I guess I was right...cold fusion coffee and hot chocolate for all.:lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  2. TruthSeeker56
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    TruthSeeker56 Silver Member

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    Cold fusion? Now THAT is some funny stuff!
     
  3. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    Really?

    One Megawatt Heat Plant for Sale

    What is cold fusion?

    http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/Technology/What_is_Cold_Fusion/index.html

    The E-Cat technology could make energy become extremely cheap and plentiful. No longer would certain nations or regions suffer from energy shortages, because the entire world would have a source of almost unlimited energy. In fact, due to the tiny quantities of cheap materials used by the E-Cat, the concept of "fuel" being burned to produce energy would slowly become outdated. This is because the upfront cost of an E-Cat unit would be the main (albeit modest) expenditure, because the cost of the replacement "charges" would be so low.

    http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/Technology/Ramifications/index.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  4. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    Prof. Sven Kullander on Cold Fusion (Orebro U. Sweden)
    Nov. 13, 2011 - "Sven Kullander, professor of high energy physics at Uppsala University and chairman of Sweden’s Royal Academy of Sciences Energy Committee: 'Cold fusion has been developed recently in Bologna can be housed in an apparatus which is not much bigger than a coffee maker and generating energy only with a few teaspoons of nickel powder.' Kullander is one of the professors who has been involved in testing of Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat technology, and has gone on record in favor of the validity of Rossi’s claims."
    Professor Sven Kullander to Give Lecture on Cold Fusion at Orebro University, Sweden | E-Cat World
     
  5. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    we petition the obama administration to:
    investigate the usefulness of the Energy Catalizer, a creation of the Italian inventor Andrea Rossi.
    The inventor claims to have created a cold-fusion device capable of producing prodigious amounts of energy by way of the fusion of nickle and hydrogen at very low cost and with no radioactive by-products and no greenhouse gas emissions. Other agencies or agents of the Federal Government including NASA, Department of Navy, DARPA have investigated these devices and believe they have great potential but they have kept as silent as possible on their findings. It is time that we bring that research into the open, hopefully by the purchase of an Energy Catalizer and allowing for its testing in a intellectually open manner without the bias that has in the past been applied by the conventional physics community. The economic benefit of the advent of cheap clean energy is obvious.

    Created: Nov 13, 2011

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

    I believe it should be looked into by our government and we should if found real use it to replace wind, solar and fossil fuels.
     
  6. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    -- Quiet operation.
    -- Constant operation despite weather conditions. (Unlike solar or wind power.)
    -- Easy to concealment to prevent from being an eyesore.
    -- Can be used indoors due to no fumes or pollution being emitted.
    -- Cutting edge technology with unlimited potential for additional development.
    -- Modular construction which allows for easy addition or subtraction of sub-units.

    The E-Cat technology represents the latest and most significant energy producing technology on the planet. It is economically attractive, environmentally friendly, and completely safe. Those savvy individuals who wish to "ride the wave of innovation" should seriously consider utilizing the E-Cat technology for their home, business, or industry.

    Advantages of the E-Cat Technology


    Far better then nuclear as theres No radiation, no waste that could kill our rivers and most importantly the energy is far, far cheaper then any other energy source known to man. Cheaper then coal, cheaper then natural gas and MUCH cheaper then solar or wind. Another plus is its cleanness rates it along side solar or wind, but within a small area means, NO BIRDS killed or land covered in miles of solar panels... I support cold fusion very strongly as it offers lower electric bills, cleaner air and a better future for humanity. You'd have to be insane not to be in support of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2011
  7. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  8. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    ECAT Technology
    The ECAT will revolutionize Energy Production as we know it. The ECAT offers energy under the following features:

    •High Energy Density Fuel (200 000 times oil)
    •Low Fuel Costs (1kg Ni has energy equivalence of 200 000kg oil)
    •Low Operation and Maintenance Costs (the modular design admits minimal maintanence)
    •Minimal Fuel Transport Cost (only 2 refuelings/year under continous run)
    •Zero Carbon Dioxide Emissions
    &#8226;Zero Noise (only noise from auxilliary products <50dB)


    The Process that makes this possible is called Cold Fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR). Nickel is fused with Hydrogen and transmutes into copper. This is a exothermal nuclear process that releases energy at around 10MeV per atomic reaction compared to the burning of Hydrogen which only releases 1.5eV per atomic reaction (Burning H2 in O2). So per atoms the exothermal process has an energy content of more than a million times the energy content of the most energetic (per weight) chemical process. The higher weight of Nickel and the fact one usually disregard oxygens weight due to its presence in air makes the net factor at around 200 000 when compared to oil.

    The abundance of Nickel in earth&#8217;s crust and the low metal price of Nickel makes the ECAT one of the cheapest energy producers around. The ECAT does not pollute and releases no carbon dioxide. Put together, there is no doubt this is a good and safe energy source for the future.

    If you are interested in this technology or in one of the ECAT products do not hesitate but put yourself on the ECAT Inquiry list.


    ECAT Technology

    The Energy Density of the ECAT is enormous only comparable with nuclear reactors. By weight the Energy Density is 200 000 times higher than oil and by volume the ECAT has a factor 2 million in energy density. This means that 1 liter of ECAT fuel represents over 100 tank trucks of oil. 1 Barrel of ECAT fuel represents a filled supertanker with oil. The difference is so staggering that it is hard to comprehend. The impact on transport and geo-economics will be severe. Japan is harvesting Uranium from the ocean at concentrations as low as 5ppb due to the energy content in nuclear reactions. The ECAT offer energy densities at higher levels than those of uranium with abundant non-radiactive materials. The ECAT process is non-radioactive and leaves no residual radioactive materials.

    Implied emission factors from electricity and heat generation
    Summary tables presenting CO2 emissions per kWh from
    electricity and heat generation by country are presented in
    Part II. However, these values will vary enormously depending
    on the fuel mix of individual countries. Average implied
    emission factors by individual product for this sector are
    presented below. These values represent the average
    grammes of CO2 per kWh of electricity and heat produced in
    the OECD member countries between 2007 and 2009. These
    figures will reflect any problems that may occur in net calorific values or in input/output efficiencies. Consequently, these
    values are given as an approximation and actual values may
    vary considerably.

    http://ecat.com/ecat-technology/ecat-comparison

    Old rocks should love this!

    The KING OF ENERGY resources is here!!! Heil the fucking KING! The power of the one true GOD!

    All the science
    http://ecat.com/ecat-technology/ecat-science
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  9. Flopper
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    Flopper Gold Member

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    If there is anything to it, there will be others with a less illustrious past promoting this. Rossi was in prison for tax evasion and violation of environmental laws. He seems more of a promoter than scientist.
     
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  10. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Yes, if this is for real, Old Rocks is definately for it. But it still comes under the heading of extroidenary claims and extroidenary evidence.

    Were it to be real and able to be scaled down in price and output to residential unit status, it would be the best thing for home owners that has happened in a long time.

    Of course, you realize the economic implications of this? First, most coal mines would be shut down in a decade. Long range grids would be a thing of the past. Individual small towns could have their own PUDs. Businesses would not be limited by access to energy in locating their plants. Pipelines, oil and gas, would become another thing of the past for most purposes.

    The price of petroleum would plummet, and become an industrial stock, rather than primarily a source of fuel. The cost of tar sand oil and other 'difficult' sources would cease to be economically viable.

    And many other economic impacts that I cannot even think of, impacts that many here will be aware of, even if I am not.
     

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